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No common ancestor between man and ape has been found.

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Kenny'sID

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His grave wasn't marked, so after a mere 250 years there's no other proof that he existed, so it's not entirely surprising that no-one's found whatever remains of our last common ancestor with the great apes from 6,000,000 years ago.

You logic doesn't take the following into account.

Unlike Therese grandfathers of particular people, there should be plenty of what's missing around, so it is surprising they cannot be found, but at the very least, it's far from proof positive they exist.
 
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Kenny'sID

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Here's a 2009 study that provides quite a good overview of the evidence of the 100-110 ancestor species between us and the Chimp-Human Last Common Ancestor.

IYO, is that study proof positive?
 
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Kenny'sID

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It’s never proof in science.

You know that.

Stop it.

I'll stop if you/they/whoever will stop stating it as fact, as in...

As to how we know it existed

If we have no proof for whatever reason,we don't "know" if it existed. Simple

Fact is, and for the umpteenth time, there is often proof in science, that is mostly what science is all about and you "should" know that, but if believing otherwise helps you all to believe this fantasy, then go for it.

Pretty fascinating how they can get a whole world with a same s opinion to believe the ridiculous, I mean really, honestly and truly believe science proves nothing, and all with the same goal in mind, to fill in the holes that make their delusion not add up....stunning.
 
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Speedwell

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I'll stop if you/they/whoever will stop stating it as fact, as in...



If we have no proof for whatever reason,we don't "know" if it existed. Simple

Fact is, and for the umpteenth time, there is often proof in science, that is mostly what science is all about and you "should" know that, but if believing otherwise helps you all to believe this fantasy, then go for it.

Pretty fascinating how they can get a whole world with a same s opinion to believe the ridiculous, I mean really, honestly and truly believe science proves nothing, and all with the same goal in mind, to fill in the holes that make their delusion not add up....stunning.
I wonder why you persist with the tedious and silly attempts at an equivocation fallacy like that. You haven't convinced anybody but yourself with it, assuming that you actually believe it and are not just using it as a sophistical device.
 
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Kenny'sID

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I wonder why you persist with the tedious and silly attempts at an equivocation fallacy like that. You haven't convinced anybody but yourself with it, assuming that you actually believe it and are not just using it as a sophistical device.

As I already stated, some believe, really believe, and the freakier the components of that belief (having to claim science proves nothing in order to make the belief work) the more it indicates it will be nearly impossible to slap, so to speak" the individuals out of their delusion,

So, I fully understand why none of you will be convinced. As far as no one at all convinced, of course that is just talk, with no basis of proof, not that it matters...I'm very secure with my belief on that, even if the whole world disagrees,
 
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Speedwell

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.I'm very secure with my belief on that, even if the whole world disagrees,
Well, it just about does. I know of nobody else who thinks that scientific propositions are tested by logical deduction from axioms. The rest of the world believes that they are tested by empirical evidence. Sorry.
 
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Kenny'sID

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Well, it just about does. I know of nobody else who thinks that scientific propositions are tested by logical deduction from axioms.

Then it doesn't...ok.

And I'd imagine the idea you are trying to put across that most of the world agrees with you is pretty meaningless to simple untrue without trustworthy numbers. But, whatever it takes, many will buy it no question...a basis of what this conversation is about....believing without proof.

I know of nobody else who thinks that scientific propositions are tested by logical deduction from axioms.

Is that to say science offers no proof of anything?
 
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Jimmy D

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As I already stated, some believe, really believe, and the freakier the components of that belief (having to claim science proves nothing in order to make the belief work) the more it indicates it will be nearly impossible to slap, so to speak" the individuals out of their delusion,

So, I fully understand why none of you will be convinced. As far as no one at all convinced, of course that is just talk, with no basis of proof, not that it matters...I'm very secure with my belief on that, even if the whole world disagrees,

Convinced of what?
 
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ViaCrucis

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But God made us in His image. So, how come people believe we evolved from apes?

I personaly believe we are unique. Gods own sons and daughters. Ok, we may share dna with many apes etc but i still believe we are unique.

The divine image and likeness isn't about bodily shape, or form, or anything like that. That's not the theological meaning behind the concept.

Throughout Scripture the idea of God's habitation and the idea of temple is an interesting one. For example, David wanted to build a temple, a permanent structure where the Ark of the Covenant would be (instead of the Tabernacle which was mobile), God told David that there was too much blood on his hands, but that his son would be able to do so; and indeed Solomon was tasked with the building of the first temple. What does Solomon say in response to this? "The heavens, even the heavens of heavens, cannot contain you, how much less this house which I have built." The Psalmist says, "The heavens are Your throne, and the earth is Your footstool." In the New Testament we see Christ say, "Tear down this temple and in three days I will rebuild it" speaking of the resurrection of His body, and the idea of the Temple is summarily subsumed into the Person of Jesus and His Church, St. Paul saying, "Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple?" And St. Peter speaking of the Church as God's temple, "You yourselves are like living stones being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices to God through Jesus Christ". And in the Apocalypse of St. John, when all is said and done, the penultimate vision of the renewal of all creation and the New Jerusalem is that there is no temple in this new city, for God and the Lamb are its Temple, for God dwells with His people and He shall be their God and they shall be His people.

If we look at Genesis 1 this theme of temple can be seen even here, that the whole universe is God's habitation, the heavens and the earth. When a temple was built, the final act was always the installation of the image of the god; of course God has always prohibited idols but what we do have in Genesis 1 is God saying He will make man in His own image. The final act of creation was the creation of human beings, made in His image and likeness. The point of the image in temples was to represent the presence of the divine; obviously God prohibited images of His likeness because nothing could be compared to His likeness, but God did create human beings to be His image-bearers. Not because we look like God, or that God looks like us, but that we are the divine representatives on earth, we are the image-bearers, created to reflect the divine glory. To be the reflection of God in creation.

The Divine Image is not about form or shape, but purpose. Human beings uniquely bear the divine image, not because we aren't animals or aren't related to other animals--but because human beings uniquely in this world have a relational dimension with God, each other, and with the rest of creation. That man is a rational animal, man--unlike every other creature on earth--is capable of understanding the ramifications of his actions, their impact on others and other creatures, and is capable of culpability for those actions, and has the capacity to either act as shepherd and priest, or as tyrant and monster. Through sin we have played the part of tyrant and monster, hence the redemptive drama of history which has its fullness in Jesus Christ and, ultimately, the renewal of the whole creation at His Parousia.

The precise "mechanics" of anthropogenesis is ultimately irrelevant to these theological points. That is, the evolution of human beings through natural processes as orchestrated by God because God is the architect of the natural world no less makes human beings created in the divine image than if one wishes to take the Genesis creation stories literally. The points remain the same either way; because the divine image isn't about what we look like, but about our purpose within creation as creatures representing the divine glory and created to share in the divine glory.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Speedwell

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Is that to say science offers no proof of anything?
That is correct. Scientific propositions are not tested by logical deduction from axioms. They are tested by empirical evidence. Evidence is what science is based on, not proof.
 
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Speedwell

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Then you are just repeating what I already told you I disagree with. Now it you are still trying to convince me science proves nothing..didn't work.
OK, it should be easy for you to demonstrate your point. You went on a while back about how the diversity of blood types was a scientific proposition which was proven, rather than being supported by empirical evidence. If that is so, you should be able to show us the axioms and the chain of logical reasoning which led to that conclusion. Go for it.
 
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miknik5

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Let me ask you an honest question as an atheist...
This god of yours.... is it a being that looks like a human? Visually, I mean. Not metaphorically, conceptually, spiritually or whatever other abstract word you wish to use.

Does your god have a physical, biological body that looks like a homo sapiens, who has nipples, a nose, a tube used for both eating and breathing, 2 ears, 2 eyes, 2 hands, 10 fingers, an appendix that can explode and cause great pain, a spine that isn't really fit for bipedalism which is a great cause of back pains,... etc?

No?

Then how is your question relevant?
Is that all you were looking for?
The outside shell?
 
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Speedwell

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Is that all you were looking for?
The outside shell?
Evolution only accounts for our "outside shell." If the outside shell isn't important then it doesn't matter whether God created man from a handful of dust, or from some precursor primate.
 
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Kenny'sID

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OK, it should be easy for you to demonstrate you point. You went on a while back about how the diversity of blood types was a scientific proposition which was proven, rather than being supported by empirical evidence. If that is so, you should be able to show us the axioms and the chain of logical reasoning which led to that conclusion. Go for it.

No, you are clearly trying to overload me with something I don't know about and would have to look into in order to make my point in the way you want me to make my point, when you know perfectly well I've made the point here several times. And if you choose to "think" that just because I refuse to waste my time on an unnecessary challenge, that proves science proves nothing, you may think that if you like, you all may think that it. I think I already stated how much I care what you think on this particular matter.

And BTW, Gee you're smart. ;)
 
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