No common ancestor between man and ape has been found.

[HitchSlap]

You probably don’t understand what I’m saying but this bearing fruit with seed in it according to its kind is also in regards to our inner spirit

We’re winding down and so is all of creation

The disobedience caused an effect and an affect on all living things

Nothing remains constant

And our “evolving” is simply our changing (the effects we have on one another and the effects the environment and other living things have on us) is what causes this change


It isn’t evolution
It’s change

A moving further and further away from the original design

Yes, we understand what you’re saying, and it’s total nonsense. Nothing you have stated here remotely comports with reality.

C’mon, this schtick is wearing thin.

 

[USincognito]

For any new folks, Mark's been reading the same script for 12 years.

Genomic comparisons map the essential changes required and they are extensive. Brain related genes would have to be built from the ground up and hundreds of millions of stasis in other brain related genes would have had to be radically altered.

This has been explained ad nauseum. We know that there a lot of changes to the Homo brain over the last 3.5 million years. We have discussed two of the gene duplications (ARHGAP11B and SRGAP2C) responsible for human encephalization, but you keep tossing out the red herring of pathology associated with SRGAP2 while ignoring the 2C allele.

What is far more telling is that there are no chimpanzee fossils in the fossil record, if they were not alive to day there would be no proof they ever existed.

This has been explained to mark for over a decade. Fossilzation is rare and it's all the rarer in forests and jungles where the soil is acidic and dissolves bones rather than fossilizes them.

The human brain is almost three times bigger then a chimpanzee and the brain matter is nearly twice as dense.

I call this Mark's "I can't believe it's a brain" (after I Can't Believe It's Not Butter) and is nothing more than personal incredulity. He's also ignoring the fact that SRGAP2C and ARHGAP11B explain the increase in density of the Homo brain.

 

[mark kennedy]

For any new folks, Mark's been reading the same script for 12 years.

Revised, updated and still no challengers.

This has been explained ad nauseum. We know that there a lot of changes to the Homo brain over the last 3.5 million years. We have discussed two of the gene duplications (ARHGAP11B and SRGAP2C) responsible for human encephalization, but you keep tossing out the red herring of pathology associated with SRGAP2 while ignoring the 2C allele.

Just for fun:

Since then they have discovered at least two dramatic giant leaps that would have had to occur in order of the human brain to have emerged from ape like ancestors SRGAP2, HAR1F. In addition genes involved with the development of language (FOXP2), changes in the musculature of the jaw (MYH16) , and limb and digit specializations (HACNS1).

The ancestral SRGAP2 protein sequence is highly constrained based on our analysis of 10 mammalian lineages. We find only a single amino-acid change between human and mouse and no changes among nonhuman primates within the first nine exons of the SRGAP2 orthologs. This is in stark contrast to the duplicate copies, which diverged from ancestral SRGAP2A less than 4 mya, but have accumulated as many as seven amino-acid replacements compared to one synonymous change. (Human-specific evolution of novel SRGAP2 genes by incomplete segmental duplication Cell May 2012)​

What is the problem with 7 amino acid replacements in a highly conserved brain related gene? The only observed effects of changes in this gene in humans is disease and disorder:

• 15,767 individuals reported by Cooper et al. (2011)] for potential copy-number variation. We identified six large (>1 Mbp) copy-number variants (CNVs), including three deletions of the ancestral 1q32.1 region…
• A ten year old child with a history of seizures, attention deficit disorder, and learning disabilities. An MRI of this patient also indicates several brain malformations, including hypoplasia of the posterior body of the corpus callosum…
• Translocation breaking within intron 6 of SRGAP2A was reported in a five-year-old girl diagnosed with West syndrome and exhibiting epileptic seizures, intellectual disability, cortical atrophy, and a thin corpus callosum. (Human-specific evolution of novel SRGAP2 genes by incomplete segmental duplication Cell May 2012)

The search for variation with regard to this vital gene yielded no beneficial effect upon which selection could have acted. The only conceivable way the changes happen is relaxed functional constraint which, unless it emerged from the initial mutation perfectly functional it surly would have killed the host. Mutations are found in children with 'developmental delay and brain malformations, including West Syndrome, agenesis of the corpus callosum, and epileptic encephalopathies'.(cited above)

Of course Creationists have their opinions about this gene:

SRGAP2A, SRGAP2B, SRGAP2C, and SRGAP2D, which are located in three completely separate regions on chromosome number 1.1 They appear to play an important role in brain development.2 Perhaps the most striking discovery is that three of the four genes (SRGAP2B, SRGAP2C, and SRGAP2D) are completely unique to humans and found in no other mammal species, not even apes…Unique in their protein coding arrangement and structure. The genes do not look duplicated at all… (Newly Discovered Human Brain Genes Are Bad News for Evolution by Jeffrey P. Tomkins, Ph.D)​

In one of the areas of the human genome that would have had to change the most, Human Accelerated Region (HAR), we find a gene that has changed the least over just under 400 million years HAR1F. Just after the Cambrian is would have had to emerge de novo, fully formed, fully functional and permanently fixed along broad taxonomic categories. In all the time since it would allow only two substitutions, then, while the DNA around it is being completely overhauled it allows 18 substitutions in a regulatory gene only 118 nucleotides long. The vital function of this gene cannot be overstated:

The most dramatic of these ‘human accelerated regions’, HAR1, is part of a novel RNA gene (HAR1F) that is expressed specifically in Cajal– Retzius neurons in the developing human neocortex from 7 to 19 gestational weeks, a crucial period for cortical neuron specification and migration. HAR1F is co-expressed with reelin, a product of Cajal–Retzius neurons that is of fundamental importance in specifying the six-layer structure of the human cortex. (An RNA gene expressed during cortical development evolved rapidly in humans, Nature 16 August 2006)​

This all has to occur after the chimpanzee human split, while our ancestors were contemporaries in equatorial Africa, with none of the selective pressures effecting our ancestral cousins. This is in addition to no less then 60 de novo (brand new) brain related genes with no known molecular mechanism to produce them. Selection can explain the survival of the fittest but the arrival of the fittest requires a cause:

The de novo origin of a new protein-coding gene from non-coding DNA is considered to be a very rare occurrence in genomes. Here we identify 60 new protein-coding genes that originated de novo on the human lineage since divergence from the chimpanzee. The functionality of these genes is supported by both transcriptional and proteomic evidence. RNA– seq data indicate that these genes have their highest expression levels in the cerebral cortex and testes, which might suggest that these genes contribute to phenotypic traits that are unique to humans, such as improved cognitive ability. Our results are inconsistent with the traditional view that the de novo origin of new genes is very rare, thus there should be greater appreciation of the importance of the de novo origination of genes…(De Novo Origin of Human Protein-Coding Genes PLoS 2011)​

This has been explained to mark for over a decade. Fossilzation is rare and it's all the rarer in forests and jungles where the soil is acidic and dissolves bones rather than fossilizes them.

You, my old debate friend, have never explained diddly squat about fossils. That much I'm sure of.

I call this Mark's "I can't believe it's a brain" (after I Can't Believe It's Not Butter) and is nothing more than personal incredulity. He's also ignoring the fact that SRGAP2C and ARHGAP11B explain the increase in density of the Homo brain.

Obscure and pedantic as always, nice to mix it up again. It's been a while.

Have a nice day
Mark

 

[Bungle_Bear]

Of course it matters, to say we were made of anything other than dust, and in anyway different from what he said would be to say the bible is not true....makes a huge difference

If we're made from dust how come there is still dust around?

In your face, creationists!

 

[HitchSlap]

Revised, updated and still no challengers.



Just for fun:

Fun indeed... just listening to creationists tell us what genes are capable of doing or not doing, is a riot. And from a soybean scientist, no less.

 

[bhsmte]

But our coming from apes and evolving into upright man is not true

Why? Because you say so?

 

[miknik5]

Yes, we understand what you’re saying, and it’s total nonsense. Nothing you have stated here remotely comports with reality.

C’mon, this schtick is wearing thin.

Dup

 

[miknik5]

Yes, we understand what you’re saying, and it’s total nonsense. Nothing you have stated here remotely comports with reality.

C’mon, this schtick is wearing thin.

im sorry HitchSlap


My schtick won’t change

 

[majj27]

So, how come people believe we evolved from apes?

They must not understand evolution, then. See, we *are* apes.

 

[majj27]

They must not understand evolution, then. See, we *are* apes.

EDIT: WOW I was late to this party. Oops!

 

[sfs]

Not so much Steve, it tells us what would have had to happen to the comparative genomes.

I have no idea what that means. Until someone can offer an alternative explanation for the genetic evidence that fits as well, that evidence continues to overwhelming support the idea that humans and chimpanzees share a common ancestor.

 

[miknik5]

Why? Because you say so?

Because GOD wasn’t confused when HE made man

 

[HitchSlap]

Because GOD wasn’t confused when HE made man

But you gotta' admit, man was a little confused when he made Allah.

 

[HitchSlap]

im sorry HitchSlap


My schtick won’t change

Unwilling or unable, to learn new things, miknik5?

 

[bhsmte]

Because GOD wasn’t confused when HE made man

Why? Because you say so?

 

[HitchSlap]

Why? Because you say so?

Because she capitalized GOD & HE, I think.

 

[bhsmte]

Unwilling or unable, to learn new things, miknik5?

Learning things that contradict a faith belief, is scary stuff.

 

[miknik5]

But you gotta' admit, man was a little confused when he made Allah.

Yes he certainly was since there is only ONE who manifested THE NAME


You gotta’ admit, man was not only a little confused, but a bit rebellious too

 

[ViaCrucis]

Yes he certainly was since there is only ONE who manifested THE NAME


You gotta’ admit, man was not only a little confused, but a bit rebellious too

Quddūsun Allāh, Quddūsun al-qawī, Quddūsun alladhī lā yamūt urḥamnā.

The Antiochian Orthodox Church, by the way, is the same Church that's been present in Antioch since Peter and Paul preached the Gospel there, and the Acts of the Apostles reads, "And in Antioch the disciples were first called Christians."

-CryptoLutheran

 

[pitabread]

Learning things that contradict a faith belief, is scary stuff.

The thing I find odd is that if someone were truly confident in what they believe, then reading something which contradicts it shouldn't be threatening. Yet when presenting creationists with material that contradicts their views, they demonstrate remarkable evasion of said material.

Fear? Laziness? What's the deal?