My Raisin Bread Challenge

[BNR32FAN]

I just had some toasted banana bread with pecans. It was warm, and the nuts were already shelled when I got them, fortunately. Yes, it would be interesting for such to appear in an instant. Perhaps the miracle of Cana equates to this, but it was still something (water) prior to it becoming wine. Your scenario, while interesting, is not a common one, even in the bible. Oil continuing to pour from an oil jar in Elisha's time is similar, but not quite the same--almost as if God hid some of the mechanism of creating oil in the jar. Jesus multiplied the bread and fishes, but He still started with bread and fishes. I'm not saying He can't do it, but your hypothetical isn't really like anything in the bible I can think of.

Creation came from nothing.

 

[BNR32FAN]

No, it doesn't unless you change the definition of deceptive.

Not when the Creator wrote a book telling people when it was made and how long it took. It’s not His fault that some people just refuse to believe it. God can’t perform miracles then tell people about it? That’s deception?

 

[BNR32FAN]

In those instances we are using the generally accepted definition:

"giving an appearance or impression different from the true one; misleading."

So by that definition your saying that God is not ALLOWED to perform miracles because they might trick you even tho He specifically told you it was a miracle? God’s miracles must be performed to your standards otherwise they are deceptive even tho He’s telling you it’s a miracle which by definition is an event that is unexplainable by science or natural occurrence? That’s not deception at all my friend.

 

[dlamberth]

Not when the Creator wrote a book telling people when it was made and how long it took. It’s not His fault that some people just refuse to believe it. God can’t perform miracles then tell people about it? That’s deception?

How does that work when God's own Creation tells a completely different story? One that is billions of years in the making.

Unlike Nature, the Bible was not pinned by God, it was pinned by man.

 

[BNR32FAN]

You don't consider it deceptive that there was no baking required? No raising of the dough? No milling of flour, no growing the wheat to mill? No drying of grapes?


I have a bridge you may be interested in buying....

That’s why it’s called a miracle, if it was required to be made the conventional way then it wouldn’t be a miracle at all now would it. There’s nothing deceptive about performing a miracle. Your basically saying that if God performs a miracle He’s being deceptive even if He specifically told you it was a miracle.

 

[BNR32FAN]

How does that work when God's own Creation tells a completely different story? One that is billions of years in the making.

Unlike Nature, the Bible was not pinned by God, it was pinned by man.

That APPEARS TO BE billions of years in the making you mean.

 

[BNR32FAN]

How does that work when God's own Creation tells a completely different story? One that is billions of years in the making.

Unlike Nature, the Bible was not pinned by God, it was pinned by man.

Its still irrelevant especially according to the challenge in the OP. Regardless of how old it appears to be the raisin bread was still created instantly. That’s a fact in the OP and because God told us it was created instantly doesn’t make it deceptive at all.

 

[AV1611VET]

Yes then God wrote a book telling everyone He made the raisin bread from nothing 6 minutes ago and it took 6 seconds to make it and people call Him a liar because the grapes should’ve taken years to grow and the grain to make the bread should’ve taken months to grow so because of this they say He’s trying to deceive people by making the ingredients appear to be older than they actually are even tho He told them the truth from the very beginning, they just didn’t believe Him.

Sad, isn't it?

 

[AV1611VET]

How does that work when God's own Creation tells a completely different story? One that is billions of years in the making.

Only on paper.

Unlike Nature, the Bible was not pinned by God, it was pinned by man.

I think you mean "penned."

 

[dlamberth]

Its still irrelevant especially according to the challenge in the OP. Regardless of how old it appears to be the raisin bread was still created instantly. That’s a fact in the OP and because God told us it was created instantly doesn’t make it deceptive at all.

So are you saying that it's Creation (or the loaf of bread) that's deceptive?

 

[dlamberth]

G
Like my Apple Challenge, which shows an act of creatio ex materia leaves no evidence behind; this challenge shows how an act of creation with embedded age (maturity without history) can't be considered deceptive.

Absolutely deceptive and dishonest to boot!

Creating something that appears to be one thing, age in this case, yet is actually something else is called fraud. I don't believe for a second that God has the ability to scam us in any manor. That's because God can only deal in Truth.

 

[AV1611VET]

Absolutely deceptive and dishonest to boot!

Creating something that appears to be one thing, age in this case, yet is actually something else is called fraud. I don't believe for a second that God has the ability to scam us in any manor. That's because God can only deal in Truth.

Would you see fraud in a loaf of warm raisin bread created instantly to feed the poor?

 

[Derf]

Creation came from nothing.

And? Just because creation came from nothing doesn't mean nuts were already shelled and in banana bread.

 

[Bungle_Bear]

I don't assume it was poofed into existence. I leave open the unlikely possibilty that it was poofed into existence. I dunno who made it.

I think you're overthinking this.

Perhaps you didn't read the OP. The opening sentence is a bit of a give away:

God creates a loaf of nice warm raisin bread in an instant

 

[Bungle_Bear]

Or, as I call it:

Trying hard not to understand and succeeding.

You don't understand your own challenge.

 

[Bungle_Bear]

That APPEARS TO BE billions of years in the making you mean.

Take that sentence and compare to the definition of deception I gave. Then tell us if there is a match.

The level of English comprehension among YECs is worrying.

 

[AV1611VET]

Take that sentence and compare to the definition of deception I gave. Then tell us if there is a match.

The level of English comprehension among YECs is worrying.

Did you just refer to me as a YEC?

If so, what was that you're saying about comprehension?

 

[Bungle_Bear]

Did you just refer to me as a YEC?

If so, what was that you're saying about comprehension?

"Thanks for the QED" - AV1611VET

 

[BNR32FAN]

And? Just because creation came from nothing doesn't mean nuts were already shelled and in banana bread.

I thought your point was that in all the other cases that were presented they all began with something.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Take that sentence and compare to the definition of deception I gave. Then tell us if there is a match.

The level of English comprehension among YECs is worrying.

No my English is just fine, you are ultimately saying that God is not allowed to perform a miracle because that might confuse you even tho He specifically told you it was a miracle. Your saying that if God created raisin bread He is not allowed to do it by performing a miracle because when you look at it and examine it, it will appear to have taken longer than it actually did which is not a deception if He specifically told you that it was created by a miracle. Now if He created it and didn’t tell anyone it was a miracle that could be considered deceptive but because He told you that it was a miracle then that changes our expectation of the appearance of the bread because it’s no longer required to appear to be as old as it actually is. Raisin bread made by a miracle is not required to look as old as it actually is. The fact that it is a miracle changes our expectations of how old it should look in comparison to how old it actually is.