My New Interpretation of Revelation 17

[Markusanthem]

Sounds like New York City to me. Home of the One World Trade Center, U.N. Headquarters, and Wall St. When the U.N. is done away with, then I think the beast that the harlot rides on will come about with its ten kings.

I see the UN or an Islamic Caliphate (or even a combo of both) as the beast but Rome is the top contender for mystery babylon.

No nation sneezes without Rome's opinion on the matter.

Keep in mind that the beast will hate and destroy the woman (mystery babylon).

New York doesn't really fit scripturally as the woman.

 

[Barraco]

I see the UN or an Islamic Caliphate (or even a combo of both) as the beast but Rome is the top contender for mystery babylon.

No nation sneezes without Rome's opinion on the matter.

Keep in mind that the beast will hate and destroy the woman (mystery babylon).

New York doesn't really fit scripturally as the woman.

I understand your argument and vehemently defended the same until I learned more about mystery religions.

Mystery religions were based on secret knowledge that was purposefully withheld from the masses by a few informed individuals. Back then, mystery religions were based on astronomy. A few men would conspire to captivate the masses by suggesting that if they did/did not do a certain thing, then the gods would be angry and would cause the sun to turn dark or the moon to turn red. When the threats were confirmed, the masses fell in fear behind these individuals, later called priests.

The kings would see that support and would pay the priests in wealth and authority in exchange for their loyalty to the kings. With the priests backing the kings, calling them gods, the masses would follow the kings without question. This is evidently called out in Revelation 17:1-3 when it reads, "Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, "Come, I will show you the judgment of the great prostitute who is seated on many waters, with whom the kings of the earth have committed sexual immorality, and with the wine of whose sexual immorality the dwellers on earth have become drunk." The sexual immorality is mingling of false priests with ordinary politicians to lead the masses into committing abominable acts.

Otherwise, I hardly see a reason to build such great monuments to kings as though they were gods or fight such great battles and conquer territories as if the lives of those they conquered were illegitimate. We have long known that most politicians only do what it is in their own best interest, and that often involves money and power. Same with criminals.

Now, we can follow the mystery Babylon along the heads of the beasts with the mystery religions:

1) Egypt

2) Assyria

3) Babylon

4) Persia

5) Greece

6) Rome (Domitian had the secret cult priests stand on each side)

7) New York City

The reason why I say New York City is because, in between the time of the sixth and seventh head, the mystery religions were destroyed by Constantine, who moved the capital of the Roman Empire to Constantinople (which was built on the ruins of pagan gods to demonstrate Christianity's victory over paganism.)

By the time the Christian empire collapsed in front of Napoleon Bonaparte and his French Empire, astronomy was no secret. People were informed. That means that the next mystery religion could no longer use the stars to deceive people. There was one thing that would soon appear that would give insiders an edge over the rest of the masses: The Stock Market.

Formerly, people would go to war because their religious leaders and supported kings would tell them to go to war. It was their divine duty to serve the interests of their divine rulers without question. Just after WWI, it became evident that divinity was out of the question and that something else began to drive wars and great empires. That was the stock market. Stocks collapsed before WWII, which caused awful conditions in Germany. During WWII, especially during the Pacific campaign, the U.S. told people that it was their patriotic duty to buy stocks. What people learned after that was that war makes investors a lot of money.

The Gulf of Tonkin incident which sparked the Vietnam War has been proven to be a lie. The controversy surrounding the Gulf War incident, regarding what the Iraqis did to the Kuwaitis when they invaded Kuwait, has been shown to be a lie. The 9/11 attacks are the subject of so much controversy because, a day before, 2.3 trillion dollars went missing and unaccounted for. The records of the incident were in the section of the Pentagon that was hit by a 'supposed' airliner. Just preceding the BP oil spill, Haliburton pulled its stocked and bought the company Boots and Coots, which cleaned up the oil spill (supposedly.) We see this crisis capitalism sprouting up more and more frequently.

The more war and political intrigue, the wealthier Wall Street gets. When an earthquake hits Japan, stocks move to safer investments. The companies that make out big are the ones that knew about it before it would happen. This insider trading shows that there is a system that is manipulated to accrue wealth and consumerism. That is why Politicians are so wrapped up in corporations and investments.

Wall Street Insiders are the new mystery religions. People go to war and conquer other territories because companies and bankers want more money.

That brings me to the beast. Since we don't yet have a name for it, lets call it the New World Order. I know its typical, but please bear with me.

Currently, we have the United Nations with the biggest runners being Europe, China, and the United States. Currently, we are seeing a great amount of corruption in each of those systems. With the euro collapsing and the U.S. dollar being submitted to inflation, the Chinese are now aware that they have overextended themselves. What follows next is an inevitable collapse of the economic system. Before that happens, look for criminals trying to sap everything out of the system and moving their investments to safer places.

If 9/11 was a sign to us, then we should see a great oddity with the stock market just before its collapse. To cover up the tracks, New York City will be destroyed. (Assuming that I'm correct about this.)

The New World Order will destroy Wall Street and will present a backed currency along with a new Constitution. People, in their desperation, will cling to it. What follows will be very dark times for many. We can already see the thick clouds on the horizon. Many people are chiming into this and calling out to the masses through social media to take heed of the failing economy. Some, to include Lindsey Williams, are even going as far as to say that an elite group of bankers are holding off the collapse of the stock market until the end of the year.

All of this can be speculation and it could be false. But one thing is true: Once mystery Babylon is destroyed, there will no longer be a false system to manipulate people into following politicians in their wicked schemes.

 

[Barraco]

In addition to my response about mystery religions, the perfect set up is 2012. It is easy nowadays to make the Mayans correct.

 

[Douggg]

7) New York City

The reason why I say New York City is because, in between the time of the sixth and seventh head, the mystery religions were destroyed by Constantine, who moved the capital of the Roman Empire to Constantinople (which was built on the ruins of pagan gods to demonstrate Christianity's victory over paganism.)

Is New York city built on seven hills (mountains)?

9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

What about this - the woman is the RCC and the Vatican. Because of the European unification crisis centered on Greece and contagion is back on the front burner, their solution is to put one person in charge over everybody and move their headquarters to Rome.

Later, when the Antichrist enters the Antichrist-beast stage of his career, the Vatican and Rome are destroyed.


Doug

 

[Stan Tei]

In the list, there are six sovereign countries, and then for the seventh, a city.

In any case, all seven must be of a like substance to be correct. Also, the prophecy speaks of an eighth which is "of the seven" ... that is left out of this equation.

I don't know if I've said it here or some other place, but there is no entity on the face of this earth in all of history, that has one entity, a beast, that has its heads as sovereign countries ruling over it. Never happened, never will. It is not about the spread of power from one (sovereign) to another and another etc, all parts of one domain, (in which sovereigns are not) but of the subjugation of all other domains under one beast. The beast ruled over the kings of the earth, but these are not said to be its heads. Then one head of the beast suffered a wound. The beast "was, and is not, and yet is". It has been healed of its deadly wound and has been rising in power ever since. Under the eighth, it will regain its temporary world dominion with the exception of all who are among God's saved. It will kill and destroy all but a few of the remnant. Then it (the beast) will be destroyed by the coming of Christ.

Example of beasts and heads The Grecian Empire, kicked off by Alexander, and the four generals divided it into four Grecian kingdoms. The four heads were Cassander, Lysemachus, Ptolemy, and Seleucus. Nebuchadnezzar was the "head" of the Babylonian Empire.

The book of Daniel spceifically numbers FOUR kingdoms on the earth. Not five, six or seven, and no, these are not the heads of anything else. They are the sovereign countries whose kingdoms lasted for only a time and season past being conquered by the next kingdom. Rome split into ten horn kingdoms. There has not been a world kingdom since.

 

[Douggg]

The beast "was, and is not, and yet is". It has been healed of its deadly wound and has been rising in power ever since.

In Chapter 17, the beast does not have a deadly wound to any of its heads.

The image of the beast having a deadly wound to one of its heads does not show up except in Revelation 13 when there are 42 months left in the seven years.

Stan, you are trying to fit the Pope in as the Antichrist, but it doesn't work.

You missed that Revelation 17 regarding the beast that "was, and is not, and yet is" which the world marvels at - Stan, no one is impressed by the RCC being around.

You missed that Revelation 17:8 is in TWO parts. The first part is the ancient individual which it says...

8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition:

Stan, that person is still in the bottomless pit in disembodied spirit form since he is dead, and is not coming out until the last 42 months of the seven years.

The second part (below) is the end times Antichrist individual, who will be mortally wounded and recovered right before the last 42 months begin. The world will see him killed and miracously recover. That's why they wonder, amazed, bewildered, when they see it happen.

(verse 8 cont'd) and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Verse 8 has the two parts and the two phrases which are different because it is talking about two different persons. Who will combine, to become the Antichrist beast, as the eighth king for that last 42 months.

"was, is not" - the ancient person, Nimrod imo.

"was, and is not, yet is" - the end times Antichrist man.


I agree with you about there only being four kingdoms (excluding the Mystery Babylon, the world united in rebellion against God).



Doug

 

[Barraco]

Is New York city built on seven hills (mountains)?

9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

I think the seven mountains that she sat on was a direct reference to Rome, the king that 'is'. I say this because the woman also sits on many waters.

Also, in Zechariah 5, Zechariah is shown a basket with woman named Wickedness in it that is being carried to the land of Shinar (Babylon) to a place where the basket would be put in place. It would likely have been set on a high place, such as a hill. I see a big connection, especially with Zechariah 5's context. Zechariah was commissioned to encourage the Jews to leave their comfortable lives in Babylon and return to Jerusalem to rebuild the temple. They were being told that wickedness would fill the land of Babylon and that the righteous choice would be to repent and return to Jerusalem to worship the Lord.

What about this - the woman is the RCC and the Vatican. Because of the European unification crisis centered on Greece and contagion is back on the front burner, their solution is to put one person in charge over everybody and move their headquarters to Rome.

I've tried to reach that conclusion, but it seems highly unlikely. When Persia conquered Babylon, Babylon lost its grandeur. When Rome took over Egypt, Egypt lost its grandeur. And when Napoleon conquered Rome, Rome also lost its grandeur. New York City seems a more fit candidate. But I'm always willing to yield to a better argument on this.

Later, when the Antichrist enters the Antichrist-beast stage of his career, the Vatican and Rome are destroyed.

Doug

Maybe. We will see I suppose.

 

[Douggg]

I think the seven mountains that she sat on was a direct reference to Rome, the king that 'is'. I say this because the woman also sits on many waters.

But the seven mountains on which the woman sits is talking about the woman, not the king. I could see the extension of the location (Rome) of the seven mountains applying to the group of 7 kings as well because the way the verses are written.

9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

Why aren't the other kings, not just the "one is", attached to Rome? The prince who shall come (who will confirm the covenant for 7 years) is of the Romans (the people who destroyed the city and sanctuary).

The woman has Mystery Babylon the Great on her forehead because she has been influenced by Babylon the Great. She is located where the 7 mountains are. i.e. Rome.

When Persia conquered Babylon, Babylon lost its grandeur.

As far as Mystery Babylon the great, you got the wrong Babylon. Go back further in history to the tower of Babel. That Babylon.

Doug

 

[Stan Tei]

The first proof that the beast of both chapters being the same is from the
entire structure of the book of Revelation. It is a complete chiastic parallel.
The two chapters 13 and 17 are paired near the center in this pattern:

1 Seven heads and ten horns Rev 13:1 and Rev 17:3

2 Heads with names on which blasphemy is written. Rev 13:1 and Rev 17:3

3 All the world shall wonder whose names are not written in the Book of Life Rev 13:8 and Rev 17:8

4 Peoples, multitudes, nations, tongues, kindreds Rev 13:7 and Rev 17:15

5 Wisdom Rev 13:18 and Rev 17:9

6 Power given to him to reign over the kings of the earth Rev 13:16 and
Rev 17:13

Revelation 13:1-10 is describing the papal beast from its beginning to 1798. In chapter 17, the papal beast is depicted at the time following 1798.

The phrase “was, and is not, and yet is” in Revelation 17:8, is an outline of chapter 13.

The time that the beast “was” is given in Revelation 13:1-8.

The time that the beast “is not” is given in Revelation 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. (The deadly wound: In Rev 17 the beast "is not")

The time that the beast “yet is” is given in Revelation 13:12, 14 receiving its support from the two-horned beast.

 

[Douggg]

The first proof that the beast of both chapters being the same is from the entire structure of the book of Revelation. It is a complete chiastic parallel. The two chapters 13 and 17 are paired near the center in this pattern:

Stan, it is not that simple. In Revelation 17, the two individuals, i.e. the ancient person in the bottomless pit and the future end times Antichrist man are spoken of separately. In Revelation 13, for the final 42 months, those two will have combined to become the Antichrist beast, the eighth king.

The beast in Revelation 17, the person, is in the bottomless pit. And the end times Antichrist man was still future. So John does not see either. Instead John sees the beast as Satan who is the power behind the beast. That's why the beast is said to be scarlet colored in Revelation 17, like the red colored dragon in Revelation 12, which is identified in Revelation 12 as Satan.

In Revelation 13, the beast, the ancient individual in spirit form, will have ascended out of the bottomless pit with 42 months to go to possess the slain and recovered end times man of sin. So, in Revelation 13, John see that beast for himself, and not as Satan like in Chapters 12 and 17.

Your comments in black, mine in red:

1 Seven heads and ten horns Rev 13:1 and Rev 17:3. But there are crowns on the ten horns in Revelation 13, but not in Revelation 17. And in Revelation 17, there is no wounded head.

2 Heads with names on which blasphemy is written. Rev 13:1 and Rev 17:3
Well there is a slight difference. In Revelation 17, the whole beast was full of blasphemy. In Revelation 13, the heads have the name of blasphemy. Probably has to do with the Caesars claim to be gods. The end times Antichrist man will be the last ruler of Julio-Claudian Caesar family.

3 All the world shall wonder whose names are not written in the Book of Life Rev 13:8 and Rev 17:8 They wonder because the wounded head is healed. In Revelation 17, there is no wounded head, because the beast at that time did not have a wounded head. It is not until right before there are 42 months to go that the beast has the wounded head and recovers.

4 Peoples, multitudes, nations, tongues, kindreds Rev 13:7 and Rev 17:15
Global, agreed.

5 Wisdom Rev 13:18 and Rev 17:9.
Yes, required for understanding both chapters.

6 Power given to him to reign over the kings of the earth Rev 13:16 and
Rev 17:13
Those two passages are little different. In Revelation 13:16, the Antichrist beast reigns over the entire world. In Revelation 17:13, it identifies hte ten kings of the kingdom that he emerges out of, as the little horn, will pledge all their power to him when he reaches that final Antichrist beast stage of his career.

Revelation 13:1-10 is describing the papal beast from its beginning to 1798. In chapter 17, the papal beast is depicted at the time following 1798.
Can't be, because Revelation 13 is the last 42 months period of the 7 years. 42 months is what is in the text.

The phrase “was, and is not, and yet is” in Revelation 17:8, is an outline of chapter 13. The "was, and is not, yet is" is the killed and recovered end times Antichrist man. The beast in Revelation 13 is that man, who recovers and will be possessed by the disembodied spirit of someone like Nimrod that is allowed to come out of the bottomless pit.

The time that the beast “was” is given in Revelation 13:1-8. No, the end times Antichrist man will have already been killed and recovered to start the last 42 months. The other person, who is currently in the bottomless pit , "was" (alive) a long long time ago.

The time that the beast “is not” is given in Revelation 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. (The deadly wound: In Rev 17 the beast "is not") The term "is not" just means that person "is not alive". Nothing to do with Revelation 13:10

The time that the beast “yet is” is given in Revelation 13:12, 14 receiving its support from the two-horned beast. The "yet is" just means that person "yet is alive". Revelation 13:12-14 is that the false prophet will have an image made up of the end times Antichrist man that people will see get killed and miracuously come back alive.

Doug

 

[Barraco]

But the seven mountains on which the woman sits is talking about the woman, not the king. I could see the extension of the location (Rome) of the seven mountains applying to the group of 7 kings as well because the way the verses are written.

I disagree with the bolded portion of your response. It explicitly states that the woman sits on the seven heads of the beast. Therefore the seven mountains refers to the beast, not the woman. I think that the mountains are important because they speak of high places where false worship would occur. A few of Judea's kings such as Hezekiah spent their time destroying the high places. These mountains are also kings (thus kingdoms) that she committed sexual immorality with.

Next, I think she is called MYSTERY Babylon because of Mystery religions. Look it up. Once I read up on it, it began to make clearer sense. Mystery religions thrived on withholding little known information from the masses in order to garnish the support of the masses and thus the politicians that ruled them.

Why aren't the other kings, not just the "one is", attached to Rome?

Because John was trying to help us pinpoint who she was. To speak of the seven mountains points us to Rome. Then to point to the seven kings (five who have fallen, one who is, and one who is to come) shows us Mystery Babylon's place in the prophetic timeline. She sat on the Roman Empire and guided Domitian's actions. After the Roman Empire, there was to come one more kingdom that would commit sexual immorality with this secretive group. That was the United Nations, whose headquarters are in New York City, home of the mysterious Stock Market. In our day and age, no other city quite fits the description of Mystery Babylon than New York City.

The prince who shall come (who will confirm the covenant for 7 years) is of the Romans (the people who destroyed the city and sanctuary).

I disagree. Of course you've probably heard the argument that the prince who shall come is the Messiah and that the covenant he confirmed was the New Covenant. It was because they turned their back on the Messiah and crucified Him and killed His disciples that Jerusalem was destroyed.

The woman has Mystery Babylon the Great on her forehead because she has been influenced by Babylon the Great. She is located where the 7 mountains are. i.e. Rome.

How would that fit in with the five kingdoms that have fallen?

As far as Mystery Babylon the great, you got the wrong Babylon. Go back further in history to the tower of Babel. That Babylon.

Doug

Oh, I knew about the city Babel. It is the same Babylon. Babylon the Great was centered on uniting the world under one leader (imperialism) and opposing God. That is what Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome, and the United Nations want.

 

[Douggg]

I disagree with the bolded portion of your response. It explicitly states that the woman sits on the seven heads of the beast.

She must have a very wide posterior to accomplish that feat.

I don't know what translation you are reading from, but in the KJV the woman is riding the beast, not the heads of the beast, and it also doesn't say the woman sits on the seven heads of the beast, but on seven mountains and many waters.

The seven heads represent the 7 mountains upon the woman sits. She is not directly sitting on the seven heads.

What do you see in this image? Does the artist or any artist you know of depict the woman sitting on the seven head of the beast?

Therefore the seven mountains refers to the beast, not the woman.

The seven mountains are where the woman sits... the verse is giving a location.

9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

I think that the mountains are important because they speak of high places where false worship would occur. A few of Judea's kings such as Hezekiah spent their time destroying the high places. These mountains are also kings (thus kingdoms) that she committed sexual immorality with.

The heads also represent the seven kings. The mountains are just the place where the woman sits. The mountains are not kings.

The seven heads represent:

a. seven mountains, the location where the woman sits.
b. seven kings.

Because John was trying to help us pinpoint who she was. To speak of the seven mountains points us to Rome. Then to point to the seven kings (five who have fallen, one who is, and one who is to come) shows us Mystery Babylon's place in the prophetic timeline. She sat on the Roman Empire and guided Domitian's actions. After the Roman Empire, there was to come one more kingdom that would commit sexual immorality with this secretive group. That was the United Nations, whose headquarters are in New York City, home of the mysterious Stock Market. In our day and age, no other city quite fits the description of Mystery Babylon than New York City.

The seven kings are all of the fourth empire. The fourth beast of Daniel 7 in the end times will rule the world. The fourth beast was the Roman Empire. What do you see in this picture and the painting? End times, tower of babel?

I disagree. Of course you've probably heard the argument that the prince who shall come is the Messiah and that the covenant he confirmed was the New Covenant. It was because they turned their back on the Messiah and crucified Him and killed His disciples that Jerusalem was destroyed.

I have heard that argument many many times.

Have you ever read Deuteronomy 31:10-11? The seven years of Daniel 9:27 will be that confirmation of the Mt. Sinai covenant, by the prince who shall come, the end times Antichrist false King messiah. The confirmation of the covenant in Daniel 9:27 is for seven years, because Deuteronomy 31:10-11 is a requirement that must be done every seven years. It is a cycle... that's why it says "for" seven years in Daniel 9:27.

How would that fit in with the five kingdoms that have fallen?

There are not five fallen kingdoms being referred to in Revelation 17. It is the first five successive fallen kings of the fourth empire. All five and the sixth were of the Julio Claudian family (the Caesars, which were a family).
This is based upon Nero being the sixth.

The end times Antichrist man will emerge out of a kingdom of ten EU nations, to become the leader of Europe, the end times roman empire. He will be the last of the Julio Claudian family, king #7.

Oh, I knew about the city Babel. It is the same Babylon. Babylon the Great was centered on uniting the world under one leader (imperialism) and opposing God. That is what Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome, and the United Nations want.

How do you get 7 kingdoms out of the beast in Revelation 13 - which has only 3 kingdoms making up its body? The beasts body is made up of the 3 kingdoms in Daniel 7, with the beast itself being the fourth empire. There are only 4 empires, not 7.

Doug

 

[SeraphimsCherub]

Check Out This Video By Mike Hoggard:

Watchman Video Broadcast 04-01-12, The Missing Piece - YouTube

 

[Barraco]

She must have a very wide posterior to accomplish that feat.

I don't know what translation you are reading from, but in the KJV the woman is riding the beast, not the heads of the beast, and it also doesn't say the woman sits on the seven heads of the beast, but on seven mountains and many waters.

The seven heads represent the 7 mountains upon the woman sits. She is not directly sitting on the seven heads.

What do you see in this image? Does the artist or any artist you know of depict the woman sitting on the seven head of the beast?

Lol.


Agreed. She rode the beast via the seven heads, which is why the beast, whom is an eighth king, hates her and destroys her. When addressing the seven kings, it is referencing the timeline of the kingdoms which she played the harlot with the politicians. The king who 'is' was the Roman Emperor. That would have pointed to the imperial cult as being the prostitute, working out of Rome. Since destruction was her lot, John was calling his readers to not abandon the faith as a result of threats from the Roman occult tribunes.

The seven mountains are where the woman sits... the verse is giving a location.

9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

The heads also represent the seven kings. The mountains are just the place where the woman sits. The mountains are not kings.

Agreed.

The seven heads represent:

a. seven mountains, the location where the woman sits.
b. seven kings.

The seven kings are all of the fourth empire. The fourth beast of Daniel 7 in the end times will rule the world. The fourth beast was the Roman Empire.

The fourth beast did rule the world and has been diminishing since the early 19th century, following suit with the sixth seal, according to Isaiah 34.

What do you see in this picture and the painting? End times, tower of babel?

What is that building? I feel like I've seen it before. Also the tower of Babel was most likely a ziggurat.

I have heard that argument many many times.

Have you ever read Deuteronomy 31:10-11? The seven years of Daniel 9:27 will be that confirmation of the Mt. Sinai covenant, by the prince who shall come, the end times Antichrist false King messiah. The confirmation of the covenant in Daniel 9:27 is for seven years, because Deuteronomy 31:10-11 is a requirement that must be done every seven years. It is a cycle... that's why it says "for" seven years in Daniel 9:27.

So, reading the Law in public is confirming (strengthening) the Covenant to many for seven years? In that case, Jesus did that as well when he said, "You have heard it said, 'Thou shalt not kill.'. But anyone who hates his brother is guilty of murder.". Jesus strengthened and expanded the Law. So he still fits that description in Daniel 9:27.

There are not five fallen kingdoms being referred to in Revelation 17. It is the first five successive fallen kings of the fourth empire. All five and the sixth were of the Julio Claudian family (the Caesars, which were a family).
This is based upon Nero being the sixth.

Well, Nero was not succeeded by a relative, which makes the prophecy false according to your interpretation. That means that you must illegitimize every succeeding emperor until a future emperor takes a broken down thrown. It all seems like it would be forced. There is so much that makes this difficult to be true.

The end times Antichrist man will emerge out of a kingdom of ten EU nations, to become the leader of Europe, the end times roman empire. He will be the last of the Julio Claudian family, king #7.

I see no strong argument for that case. It seems too farfetched and forced. You'd figure there would be seamless transition between prophecies. I find it hard to believe that, 2000 years later, a descendant of Nero would rule a failing European Union to world domination.

How do you get 7 kingdoms out of the beast in Revelation 13 - which has only 3 kingdoms making up its body?

I don't. The beast of Rev. 13 has seven heads (one of which was wounded) and Ten horns having a crown on each horn. In other words, the beast of Rev. 13 and the beast of Rev. 17 are not the same beast. Crowns on the ten horns of Rev. 13 's beast signify authority and power. The horns of the beast of Rev. 17 don't have power. Not the same kingdoms at all.

The beasts body is made up of the 3 kingdoms in Daniel 7, with the beast itself being the fourth empire. There are only 4 empires, not 7.

Doug

I get that. Since they are not the same beasts, I see no point in arguing this point further.

 

[Douggg]

What is that building? I feel like I've seen it before. Also the tower of Babel was most likely a ziggurat.

That building is the headquarters of the EU Government. The EU is the end times Roman Empire. But their mentality is that of Mystery Babylon, many languages - one voice is their motto.

So, reading the Law in public is confirming (strengthening) the Covenant to many for seven years? In that case, Jesus did that as well when he said, "You have heard it said, 'Thou shalt not kill.'. But anyone who hates his brother is guilty of murder.". Jesus strengthened and expanded the Law. So he still fits that description in Daniel 9:27.

You misunderstand. It is not the reading "the Law" overall, but the specific law, or order, Moses gave to that second generation to go in and possess the promised land. They had been in the wilderness for 40 years. The first generation had passed away because they refused to enter the promised land when told to, and Moses was about to give the order to the second generation under Aaron to enter the promised land.

As a remembrance of what they went through and God's promises to them under the Mt. Sinai covenant, Moses made a requirement that every seven years, his instructions, order, law to go in and possess the land would be read to the entire congregation of Israel.

The timing for the reading is to be on the feast of tabernacles. The feast of tabernacles is the holy feast that the Jews make little shacks, temporary structures like they would have had when they were in the desert. They set them up in their back yards and live in them for a period of time.

The purpose of the reading is to confirm the promises made under the Mt. Sinai covenan,t and so that the Jews would never forget that the promised land is the land that God gave them.

Nero was not succeeded by a relative, which makes the prophecy false according to your interpretation. That means that you must illegitimize every succeeding emperor until a future emperor takes a broken down thrown. It all seems like it would be forced. There is so much that makes this difficult to be true.

The emperor's following Nero were of different families. Domitian was a Flavian not a Caesar. I am not making up that Nero was the last of the Julio-Claudians (the Caesar family). You can go to Roman Emperors.org and look up Nero, and they will say he is the last of the Julio-Claudians.

The end times Antichrist will be a descendant of the Julio-Claudians. He will be the future king #7 of the Caesar family to rule the Roman Empire.

When the end times Antichrist is slain and recovers, he is possessed by the beast ascending out of the bottomless pit - to become the 8th king.

I see no strong argument for that case. It seems too farfetched and forced. You'd figure there would be seamless transition between prophecies. I find it hard to believe that, 2000 years later, a descendant of Nero would rule a failing European Union to world domination.

The Antichrist little horn politician will solve Europe's woes, and he will do it in stern fashion. The Antichrist will be a descendent of the Julio-Claudians, which is a bloodline. He doesn't have to be descended for Nero.

I don't. The beast of Rev. 13 has seven heads (one of which was wounded) and Ten horns having a crown on each horn. In other words, the beast of Rev. 13 and the beast of Rev. 17 are not the same beast. Crowns on the ten horns of Rev. 13 's beast signify authority and power. The horns of the beast of Rev. 17 don't have power. Not the same kingdoms at all.

They are the same beast. But the timestamps are different in each of the Chapters, 17, 12, 13. That is why the crowns are different in each chapter.

Chapter 17 - timestamped, first century
Chapter 12 - timestamped at the beginning of the seven years
Chapter 13 - timestamped at the beginning of the last 42 months.

Analogy - when you were a baby, you had no teeth.
when you were three, you had baby teeth.
when you were fourteen, you had adult teeth
when you were twenty, you had some missing teeth
when you were forty, you had false teeth

So you were the same person, but the timestamp was different. That's the way it is regarding the description of the beast in Revelation 17, 12, 13.

Doug

 

[Bible2]

Stan Tei said in post #13:

The Antichrist denies that Jesus is the Christ, by the false claim that he is the Christ.

The AC will never claim to be Christ, for his antichrist denial that Christ is in the flesh (1 Jn. 4:3) will disqualify him as a mortal-flesh human (under his mistaken Gnostic doctrine) from being Christ. Instead, the non-mortal-flesh Lucifer could be the false Christ (i.e. the "Lucifer" Christ, & not the "Jesus" Christ: 1 Jn. 2:22) during the AC's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Rev. 13:4-18), which will be in the latter half of the future trib of Rev. chs. 6-18.

But none of this means there won't also be multiple false human Christs who'll arise during the trib (Mt. 24:24), including 1 who'll be a false ultra-Orthodox Jewish Christ/Messiah. For shortly after the start of the trib, the AC could "cut" a peace treaty with a false ultra-Orthodox Jewish "Messiah" (Dan. 9:26a, 11:22-23a), promising this false Messiah & his ultra-Orthodox Jewish followers that they can keep a 3rd Jewish temple (Rev. 11:1) which they'll have built on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, for at least 7 more years (Dan. 9:27a).

It has been a long-held fear that the Catholics believe that the Antichrist will come and take over the papacy.

Instead of the AC himself taking over the papacy, his False Prophet (FP) could be the one to do that. The beast which comes up out of the earth (Rev. 13:11-16) represents the individual man who'll become the AC's FP (Rev. 19:20, 16:13). He could currently be a (secretly apostate) cardinal in the RCC, preparing himself to become the next pope. If he becomes the next pope, he could begin his tenure by making a great push for peace & unity between Christianity & Islam. He could say something like: "Why do we fight each other? Are we not all the spiritual children of Abraham and of his God, the one God? Can't we lay aside our foolish, man-made differences of theology, which have done us no good at all, but only brought us hatred and violence, and unite into one religion of Abraham, one religion of peace, based on love for the one God and love for our fellow man? What's more important than this?"

He could be so skillful in elucidating what the moderate Muslims could call "the true, peaceful, loving nature of Islam", that he could be hailed by them worldwide as (in their words) "A Great Imam, come to rescue our beloved Islam from the bad reputation falsely given to it by the terrorists". In this way, the next pope could come to hold high positions of power in 2 religions at the same time, which could be symbolized by the 2 horns of the FP lamb (Rev. 13:11). This would be similar to how the 7 horns of the true-Jesus lamb in Rev. 5:6 could represent the true Jesus holding 7 positions of power at the same time (cf. Jesus wearing many crowns at the same time in Rev. 19:12). The FP could even say that he is Jesus.

Once the FP by his amazing miracles has brought the world under his spell (Rev. 13:13-18, 19:20), including many Muslims & Christians who may not care much for scriptural dogma but could go wild over his signs & wonders, he could begin to (in his words) "restore to the world the real message which was spoken by me (Jesus) at my first coming, and by the great prophet Mohammed, but which message became corrupted by power-hungry men when they copied and changed the early manuscripts of the Bible and the Koran". He could then gradually initiate the world into the AC's Gnostic Luciferianism (1 Jn. 4:3, Rev. 13:4-6), a religion which could have existed since ancient times in some "mystery" cults, & which still exists today in the highest degree of initiation of a worldwide secret society. The FP could present his miraculously calling fire down from heaven (Rev.13:13) as purported proof that Lucifer & the AC are the true God (Rev. 13:4,8). This would be a counterfeit of how the true prophet Elijah miraculously called fire down from heaven to prove that YHWH is the true God (1 Kin. 18:37-39).

 

[Bible2]

Stan Tei said in post #13:

Yes, this is future, but not that far away.

That could be right, for Mt. 24:34 could mean the temporal generation that saw the 1948 re-establishment of Israel (which could be symbolized by the rebudding of the fig tree: Mt. 24:32-34, Hos. 9:10, Joel 1:6-7, Lk. 13:6-9, Mt. 21:19,43) won't pass (i.e. die off completely) until the trib & 2nd coming are fulfilled. A temporal generation may not pass until 70 or 80 yrs. (Ps. 90:10), or 120 yrs. (Gen. 6:3).

This doesn't require the 2nd coming will occur right before (like 1 yr.) before that generation will pass: i.e. 69, or 79, or 119 yrs. after 1948: in 2017, 2027, or 2067. And if the trib which will immediately precede the 2nd coming (Mt. 24:29-31, 2 Thes. 2:1-8, Rev. 19:7-20:6) will last 7 yrs. (Dan. 9:27), the trib's 1st yr. didn't have to be in 2011, & won't have to be in 2021, or 2061, but could be in a future yr. (e.g. 2020) earlier than 2021.

In speaking of the seven heads/mountains of Rev 17, five have fallen...

That's right (see the "heads" part of post #5).

. . . this cannot refer to literal hills, or to kingdoms.

The 7 "mountains" can refer to 7 empires (see the "7 mountains can represent 7 empires" part of post #12).

Heads are heads, being the kings or leaders of the kingdoms they represent.

Rev. 17:10's seven "kings" can refer to 7 empires, just as the 4 "kings" in Dan. 7:17 refer to 4 empires, Dan. 7:23 referring to the 4th (i.e. the Roman Empire).

The heads are that kingdom's leaders (popes).

No pope (yet) has ever taught the world what the AC will ultimately teach the world (see the "won't support Catholicism" part of post #12).