My Murderous Challenge

[2PhiloVoid]

Where I have skepticism and doubt galore is in the statement that peace can be found only in Jesus. The reason being is that there are millions and millions of people around the world who have found peace through other means than Jesus.

That's the oddest thing, ain't it? 'Cuz, I always thought that Jesus "came not to bring peace, but a sword!"

I guess it's kind like the peace one gets AFTER one of those necessary trips to the hospital when a surgeon's knife is required?

 

[Blaise N]

If it's undeniable, then there must be evidence for it. Tell me the fact, show me the evidence for it, and if that evidence can withstand scrutiny, then I'll accept the fact. Simple as that.

Where I have skepticism and doubt galore is in the statement that peace can be found only in Jesus. The reason being is that there are millions and millions of people around the world who have found peace through other means than Jesus.

And that my friend is not true peace,they only can be saying that.The reason they find false peace elsewhere is because Satan has blinded them.

 

[Kylie]

Apparently, you've never questioned your own supposed "standards" so.....you feel stuck.

Should I add a question mark to the end of that?

Would you care to give me an example of how my standards have failed me?

 

[Kylie]

And that my friend is not true peace,they only can be saying that.The reason they find false peace elsewhere is because Satan has blinded them.

Sounds like the No True Scotsman argument. You're just inventing a reason to discard what they are saying because they aren't saying what you want to hear.

 

[jayem]

I posted in a different forum and just noticed this thread. I haven’t read all 200+ posts. What does this discussion have to do with physical and life sciences?

 

[dlamberth]

And that my friend is not true peace,they only can be saying that.The reason they find false peace elsewhere is because Satan has blinded them.

That sounds more like theology/dogma than what we actually see happening around the world.

 

[AV1611VET]

Where I have skepticism and doubt galore is in the statement that peace can be found only in Jesus. The reason being is that there are millions and millions of people around the world who have found peace through other means than Jesus.

John 14:27a Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you.

 

[AV1611VET]

And that my friend is not true peace,they only can be saying that.The reason they find false peace elsewhere is because Satan has blinded them.

Yup.

Isaiah 26:3 Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee.

 

[Blaise N]

Sounds like the No True Scotsman argument. You're just inventing a reason to discard what they are saying because they aren't saying what you want to hear.

No,I’m saying they truly haven’t found peace,only an idol that never brings hope and peace.

 

[Blaise N]

I posted in a different forum and just noticed this thread. I haven’t read all 200+ posts. What does this discussion have to do with physical and life sciences?

Well my friend.Me and the OP of this page are discussing back and forth theological issues that Miss Kylie and Dlam are wanting to know more about.As of right now it’s a discussion on the defense of God(Jesus’s) existence.

 

[jayem]

Well my friend.Me and the OP of this page are discussing back and forth theological issues that Miss Kylie and Dlam are wanting to know more about.As of right now it’s a discussion on the defense of God(Jesus’s) existence.

Fine. But that’s apologetics. This is ostensibly a science forum. Has anyone invoked physics, chemistry, biology, or other scientific discipline to support an opinion?

 

[AV1611VET]

Fine. But that’s apologetics. This is ostensibly a science forum. Has anyone invoked physics, chemistry, biology, or other scientific discipline to support an opinion?

Welcome to CF!

 

[Kylie]

No,I’m saying they truly haven’t found peace,only an idol that never brings hope and peace.

You don't get to decide if someone has found peace or not.

What you are doing is essentially saying, "You say you've found peace, but according to my beliefs, the thing you claim has brought you peace can't actually provide it, so therefore you are lying when you say you have found peace."

 

[Blaise N]

Fine. But that’s apologetics. This is ostensibly a science forum. Has anyone invoked physics, chemistry, biology, or other scientific discipline to support an opinion?

You don't get to decide if someone has found peace or not.

What you are doing is essentially saying, "You say you've found peace, but according to my beliefs, the thing you claim has brought you peace can't actually provide it, so therefore you are lying when you say you have found peace."

You don't get to decide if someone has found peace or not.

What you are doing is essentially saying, "You say you've found peace, but according to my beliefs, the thing you claim has brought you peace can't actually provide it, so therefore you are lying when you say you have found peace."

I’m very hurt you call Jesus a “thing”.One again I say this out of Love,Jesus exists regardless of unbelievers denial.Kylie,Any unbeliever in the world of people of other beliefs will always say they have peace,but deep down they don’t.Ex-Buddhists who hve turns Christian converts have even said that “there was no true peace”.Plus I as a Christian don’t Lie.I can it stand to lie and find lying absolutely abhorrent.Kylie God Is real, but you simply want to deny his existence in unrighteousness.Like I said above,I can’t make you do anything,and can’t force you to have faith,but i kindly strongly urge you to have it.

 

[Kylie]

I’m very hurt you call Jesus a “thing”.One again I say this out of Love,Jesus exists regardless of unbelievers denial.Kylie,Any unbeliever in the world of people of other beliefs will always say they have peace,but deep down they don’t.Ex-Buddhists who hve turns Christian converts have even said that “there was no true peace”.Plus I as a Christian don’t Lie.I can it stand to lie and find lying absolutely abhorrent.Kylie God Is real, but you simply want to deny his existence in unrighteousness.Like I said above,I can’t make you do anything,and can’t force you to have faith,but i kindly strongly urge you to have it.

I never referred to Jesus as a thing. When I used the term, I was referring to what you might say to someone who claimed they got peacxe from something that wasn't Jesus. And I use the term because I am referring to ANYTHING that can bring a person peace. For you, it is Jesus. For someone else, it my be their model train hobby. For another person, if could be running through the forest.

I am simply saying that there are as many different ways to find peace as there are people, and you can't claim that someone's way of finding peace is invalid just because it isn't what works for you.

And I am not accusing you of lying either. I have never once stated that you are lying and that Jesus doesn't bring you peace. If you say that Jesus brings you peace, that's good enough for me, and I will accept it. But likewise, if a different person says that something else brings them peace, I accept that too. I am not taking issue with your religious faith bringing you peace. I am taking issue with your position that no one can ever have peace unless it is through the same religious faith that brings you peace.

 

[AV1611VET]

I am simply saying that there are as many different ways to find peace as there are people, and you can't claim that someone's way of finding peace is invalid just because it isn't what works for you.

We don't need to be a Rhodes scholar to know that you can't have true peace without having the Prince of Peace in your life.

 

[Kylie]

We don't need to be a Rhodes scholar to know that you can't have true peace without having the Prince of Peace in your life.

And you make the same error. Just because you believe that what you have is the only way to achieve peace doesn't mean it actually is.

I could say that the only way to achieve true peace is to eat a chocolate cake. That may work for me, but it doesn't mean I'd be right if I said, "You've never eaten chocolate cake? You haven't had true peace then. Sure, you've got your faith in Jesus, but that isn't the same as the peace you get from chocolate cake."

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Sounds like the No True Scotsman argument. You're just inventing a reason to discard what they are saying because they aren't saying what you want to hear.

Jesus had a No True Scotsman statement, so therefore, I have a No True Scotsman argument. (It might not be the usual argument and it might be highly qualified, but no one will be able to tell me that it's not a true No True Scotsman argument. )

 

[2PhiloVoid]

And you make the same error. Just because you believe that what you have is the only way to achieve peace doesn't mean it actually is.

I could say that the only way to achieve true peace is to eat a chocolate cake. That may work for me, but it doesn't mean I'd be right if I said, "You've never eaten chocolate cake? You haven't had true peace then. Sure, you've got your faith in Jesus, but that isn't the same as the peace you get from chocolate cake."

I think I'd apply the Outsider Test for Chocolate Peace to all those who tell me that they have peace without ...... mmmm.... Chocolate Cake!!!

 

[AV1611VET]

And you make the same error. Just because you believe that what you have is the only way to achieve peace doesn't mean it actually is.

That's correct.

It's when God says it, that it actually is.