Futurist Only my latest chart

[tranquil]

The trumpets are during that 7 years following the Gog/Magog event.

Gog represents the individual leader, and the nation he is over. In either case, there is no connection to the 5th trumpet event.

Gog is a punishment upon 'Israel' for disobedience from Deut 28


Ezek 38

13 Sheba and Dedan and the merchants of Tarshish with all its villagesd will ask, ‘Have you come to capture the plunder? Have you assembled your hordes to carry away loot, to make off with silver and gold, to take cattle and goods, to seize great spoil?’

14 Therefore prophesy, son of man, and tell Gog that this is what the Lord GOD says: On that day when My people Israel are dwelling securely, will you not take notice of this? 15 And you will come from your place out of the far north—you and many peoples with you, all riding horses—a mighty horde, a huge army. 16 You will advance against My people Israel like a cloud covering the land. It will happen in the latter days, O Gog, that I will bring you against My land, so that the nations may know Me when I show Myself holy in you before their eyes.

Deut 28​

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33 A people you do not know will eat the produce of your land and of all your toil. All your days you will be oppressed and crushed. 34 You will be driven mad by the sights you see. 35 The LORD will afflict you with painful, incurable boils on your knees and thighs, from the soles of your feet to the top of your head.​

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36 The LORD will bring you and the king you appoint to a nation neither you nor your fathers have known, and there you will worship other gods—gods of wood and stone. 37 You will become an object of horror, scorn, and ridicule among all the nations to which the LORD will drive you. 38 You will sow much seed in the field but harvest little, because the locusts will consume it.​

Ezek 38:17 This is what the Lord GOD says: Are you the one of whom I have spoken in former days through My servants, the prophets of Israel, who in those times prophesied for years that I would bring you against them? 18 Now on that day when Gog comes against the land of Israel, declares the Lord GOD, My wrath will flare up.

The 'day of the Lord's wrath starts at the Trumpets. The 'locusts' are the 'people of the prince to come' from Dan 9:26.

Dan 9​

Then the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end will come like a flood, and until the end there will be war; desolations have been decreed. 27And he will confirm a covenant with many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of the temple will come the abomination that causes desolation,j until the decreed destruction is poured out upon him.​

That 'flood' is the 5 months of the 1st Woe's locusts. At the end of the 'locusts' 'flood' is a 'flood' to remove Gog and destroy Magog. That is the destruction of Magog from Ezekiel 39 is the 6th Trumpet in Revelation 9:13-21.

Then comes the covenant for 7 years.

 

[tranquil]

Interesting ideas Oseas.
My theory is that the Antichrist, who will be President of the USA, will send troops to Israel when they are threatened by Iran. Israel and the US will form a covenant when Iran achieves nuclear armaments. Jerusalem will be awash with American military.
The Antichrist will have the Pope attest that he is the second coming of the Messiah and will be anointed. The Antichrist will then visit Jerusalem to review his troops. While there, he will visit the site of Jesus's Sarcophagus in the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, where he will defile the tomb and become the Desolation of Abomination.

For what it is worth (not much, that's for sure), I would say that the martial law dictator of the US would be the antichrist (or false Prophet). When the US is attacked or suffers some sort of disaster, then it would devolve into the 10 FEMA regions. These are the 10 horns that elect the 11th horn, dictator. (If I had to put a date on it, the 2nd Trumpet (fall of Babylon) would occur on Dec 21, 2024 (winter & a Sabbath). (The Trumpets/ great tribulation begin on a Feast of Tabernacles.)

I think it is possible that Israel will become another state of the USA at some point.

I would say that after the killing of a third of mankind in Rev 9:13-21, then this covenant is made (starting the 1260 days of the 2 witnesses).

If the 'flood' (the destruction of Magog from Ezekiel 39:6) (Revelation 9:13-21) lasts for 150 days (Gen 7:24's flood was 150 days), then 5 bible/ lunar months after Feast of Tabernacles would be 15 Adar. Both 15 Adar in 2024 and 2025 occur on the (winter) Sabbath.

I put a graph in post #94. If you add 150 days to March 15, 2025, that takes you to Aug 12, 2025 + 1260 days = Jan 23, 2029 which would incorporate the '3.5 days of the 2 witnesses to lie dead starting on US Inauguration Day, Jan 20, 2029.

Because the 'day' announced in the 6th Seal could potentially be construed as a year, Sept 30, 2023 could be the start of the lead up to the worship of the antichrist at the start of the Trumpets a year later.

 

[Douggg]

Gog is a punishment upon 'Israel' for disobedience from Deut 28

Gog is not a punishment on Israel for disobedience. Deuteronomy 28 has to do with when they went into the Babylonian and Assyrian captivities.

Ezek 38:17 This is what the Lord GOD says: Are you the one of whom I have spoken in former days through My servants, the prophets of Israel, who in those times prophesied for years that I would bring you against them? 18 Now on that day when Gog comes against the land of Israel, declares the Lord GOD, My wrath will flare up.

The 'day of the Lord's wrath starts at the Trumpets. The 'locusts' are the 'people of the prince to come' from Dan 9:26.

The people of the prince to come - destroy the temple and city. That has already happened in 70 AD, by the Romans.

When Gog/Magog attacks Israel, God's wrath will flare up against Gog and his army - destroying it.

The Day of the Lord beginning of God's wrath starts when the Antichrist goes into the temple, sits, claims to have achieved God-hood.

Gog/Magog..... right after the 7 years begin......then about 3 years into the 7 years, the Day of the Lord begins.... then at the end of the 7 years, Jesus returns.

That 'flood' is the 5 months of the 1st Woe's locusts. At the end of the 'locusts' 'flood' is a 'flood' to remove Gog and destroy Magog. That is the destruction of Magog from Ezekiel 39 is the 6th Trumpet in Revelation 9:13-21.

The end of the 70 weeks comes like a flood. It is talking about the last week, the 70th week. Within it will be a flood of troubles.

 

[Oseas]

There will be two SATANIC Beasts reigning on the whole Earth: Europe, and Asia, Africa, Oceania(Australia), North America, Central America and South America. Revelation 13 - King James Version - written around 95AD-65 years after JESUS 's ascencion

FIRST BEAST

1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a Beast rise up out of the sea (a Gentile Beast=SEA means waters=>peoples , and nations, and multitudes of all tongues) having seven heads(7 mounts) and ten horns(Daniel 7:7), and upon his (10) horns ten crowns(title of nobility), and upon his (7) heads the NAME of blasphemy. (What kind of blasphemy's NAME)

2 And the Beast which I saw (the Beast of sea) was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion(here the origin/roots of the Beast of sea-Daniel 7:4-6):and the dragon (Satan incarnated, a former Cherub, son of perdition-2 Thes. 2:3-4 combined with Revelation 12:3-4) gave him (gave to the Beast of sea) his Power, and his Seat (in Jerusalem), and great Authority.

3 And I saw one of his (7) heads (in my view will be South America) as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed (was healed because Satan incarnated, a former Cherub, son of perdition-2 Thes. 2:3-4 combined with Revelation 12:3-4) gave him (gave to the Beast of sea) his Power, and his Seat (in Jerusalem), and great Authority, and all the world wondered after the Beast.

4 And they(all the world) worshipped the dragon(worshipped Satan incarnated, a former Cherub, son of perdition-2 Thes. 2:3-4 combined with Revelation 12:3-4) which gave power unto the Beast(gave power unto the Gentile Beast of sea): and they worshipped the Beast, saying, Who is like unto the Beast? who is able to make WAR with him? (Michael is able - Revelation 12)

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. (first half of the last week, week 70th Daniel 9:24)

6 And he (the Gentile Beast of sea) opened (will open) his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name (against JESUS), and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven (who dwell in heaven is revealed in Ephesians 1:v.3 among others).

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints (Get ready -There will be two religious and satanic Beasts in the days ahead), and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.

10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.


SECOND BEAST

11 And I beheld ANOTHER Beast coming up out of the earth (a second Beast); and he has two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.( a false lamb, actually a false messiah-John 5:43-47)

12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first Beast before him (the Beast of earth is much more powerful than the Beast of the sea), and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first Beast(the Beast of sea), whose deadly wound was healed. (was healed because Satan incarnated, a former Cherub, son of perdition-2 Thes. 2:3-4 combined with Revelation 12:3-4, gave to the Beast of sea, his Power, his Throne in Jerusalem, and great Authority)

13 And he (the esoteric, and kabbalistic and spiritist Beast of earth like a lamb, a false lamb) doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth(earth here is Israel) by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the Beast (in the sight of the Beast of sea); saying to them that dwell on the earth (dwell in Israel), that they should make an image to the Beast, which had the wound by a SWORD, and did live. (the SWORD is the Word of GOD, a sharp Sword-Hebrew 4:12-13)

15 And he (the esoteric, and kabbalistic and spiritist Beast of earth like a lamb, a false lamb) has power to give life unto the image of the Beast, that the image of the Beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the Beast should be killed.

16 And he (the esoteric, and kabbalistic and spiritist Beast of earth like a lamb, a false lamb) causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the NAME of the Beast, or the NUMBER of his NAME.

18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding COUNT (not calculate) the number of the Beast: for it is the NUMBER of a man; and his NUMBER is Six hundred threescore and six.

Get ready, there will be two religious and SATANIC Beasts reigning in the Earth very soon, by the way, the last Pope must be elected, who will reign together the esoteric, and kabbalistic, and spiritist Beast of the earth having two horns and speaks as Dragon, in the period of the last week of seven years. Both Beasts will rule a religious and SATANIC MONSTER having 7 heads, and 10 horns(symbol of the 10 tribes of Israel-the clay), having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. And with his TAIL-Isaiah 9:15-16- will draw to him the third part of the stars of heaven(heaven? Ephesians 1:v.3),

Get ready

 

[Douggg]

whose deadly wound was healed. (was healed because Satan incarnated

No, Oseas, instead Satan will incarnate the image of the beast. The image will be a statue, that comes to life (appears to) because Satan will incarnated the statue.

Now go to Ezekiel 28:16-19 to see what happens to that statue. It is going to suddenly go up in flames, turned to ashes, exposing Satan for all there that day to see.

17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

 

[TribulationSigns]

No, Oseas, Satan will incarnate the image of the beast. The image will be a statue, that comes to life (appears to) because Satan will incarnated the statue.

Satan will incarnate into a stone statue so it will come to life??? Oh boy...more wild speculation. Even Ezekiel 28:16-19 said NOTHING of sort like this! Grossly misapplication of Scripture.

 

[Douggg]

Satan will incarnate into a stone statue so it will come to life??? Oh boy...more wild speculation. Even Ezekiel 28:16-19 said NOTHING of sort like this! Grossly misapplication of Scripture.

The material the statue will be made of is not specified.

Revelation 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

 

[Chris Thomas Shepherd]

There will be two SATANIC Beasts reigning on the whole Earth: Europe, and Asia, Africa, Oceania(Australia), North America, Central America and South America. Revelation 13 - King James Version - written around 95AD-65 years after JESUS 's ascencion

FIRST BEAST

1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a Beast rise up out of the sea (a Gentile Beast=SEA means waters=>peoples , and nations, and multitudes of all tongues) having seven heads(7 mounts) and ten horns(Daniel 7:7), and upon his (10) horns ten crowns(title of nobility), and upon his (7) heads the NAME of blasphemy. (What kind of blasphemy's NAME)

2 And the Beast which I saw (the Beast of sea) was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion(here the origin/roots of the Beast of sea-Daniel 7:4-6):and the dragon (Satan incarnated, a former Cherub, son of perdition-2 Thes. 2:3-4 combined with Revelation 12:3-4) gave him (gave to the Beast of sea) his Power, and his Seat (in Jerusalem), and great Authority.

3 And I saw one of his (7) heads (in my view will be South America) as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed (was healed because Satan incarnated, a former Cherub, son of perdition-2 Thes. 2:3-4 combined with Revelation 12:3-4) gave him (gave to the Beast of sea) his Power, and his Seat (in Jerusalem), and great Authority, and all the world wondered after the Beast.

4 And they(all the world) worshipped the dragon(worshipped Satan incarnated, a former Cherub, son of perdition-2 Thes. 2:3-4 combined with Revelation 12:3-4) which gave power unto the Beast(gave power unto the Gentile Beast of sea): and they worshipped the Beast, saying, Who is like unto the Beast? who is able to make WAR with him? (Michael is able - Revelation 12)

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. (first half of the last week, week 70th Daniel 9:24)

6 And he (the Gentile Beast of sea) opened (will open) his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name (against JESUS), and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven (who dwell in heaven is revealed in Ephesians 1:v.3 among others).

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints (Get ready -There will be two religious and satanic Beasts in the days ahead), and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.

10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.


SECOND BEAST

11 And I beheld ANOTHER Beast coming up out of the earth (a second Beast); and he has two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.( a false lamb, actually a false messiah-John 5:43-47)

12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first Beast before him (the Beast of earth is much more powerful than the Beast of the sea), and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first Beast(the Beast of sea), whose deadly wound was healed. (was healed because Satan incarnated, a former Cherub, son of perdition-2 Thes. 2:3-4 combined with Revelation 12:3-4, gave to the Beast of sea, his Power, his Throne in Jerusalem, and great Authority)

13 And he (the esoteric, and kabbalistic and spiritist Beast of earth like a lamb, a false lamb) doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth(earth here is Israel) by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the Beast (in the sight of the Beast of sea); saying to them that dwell on the earth (dwell in Israel), that they should make an image to the Beast, which had the wound by a SWORD, and did live. (the SWORD is the Word of GOD, a sharp Sword-Hebrew 4:12-13)

15 And he (the esoteric, and kabbalistic and spiritist Beast of earth like a lamb, a false lamb) has power to give life unto the image of the Beast, that the image of the Beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the Beast should be killed.

16 And he (the esoteric, and kabbalistic and spiritist Beast of earth like a lamb, a false lamb) causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the NAME of the Beast, or the NUMBER of his NAME.

18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding COUNT (not calculate) the number of the Beast: for it is the NUMBER of a man; and his NUMBER is Six hundred threescore and six.

Get ready, there will be two religious and SATANIC Beasts reigning in the Earth very soon, by the way, the last Pope must be elected, who will reign together the esoteric, and kabbalistic, and spiritist Beast of the earth having two horns and speaks as Dragon, in the period of the last week of seven years. Both Beasts will rule a religious and SATANIC MONSTER having 7 heads, and 10 horns(symbol of the 10 tribes of Israel-the clay), having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. And with his TAIL-Isaiah 9:15-16- will draw to him the third part of the stars of heaven(heaven? Ephesians 1:v.3),

Get ready

The 1st beast (beast from the sea) is the Antichrist whom I foresee to be the 51st president of the USA. He will lose in the next election (the mortal head wound mentioned in Revelation 13), but incredibly re-claims the presidency 4 years later (his wound is healed per Revelation 13:3).

The 2nd beast is the false prophet who I believe will initially be a Roman Catholic Cardinal who aides the Antichrist in his pursuit to portray himself as the Messiah returned. As the power of the Antichrist grows and believers become plentiful, the false prophet is able to get himself elected Pope, after the mysterious death of the acting Pope (who will be against the anointing of the Antichrist as Messiah).

 

[Chris Thomas Shepherd]

The little horn person, who will become the Antichrist King of Israel coming in his own name following Gog/Magog, comes into the middle east, and the pleasant land Israel - from a location north and west of Israel. The United States does not geographically fit.

Daniel 8:9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

My theory Doug:
The little horn (the Antichrist) will become US president and will threaten Mexico (to the south), China (far east) and will make alliances with Israel (the pleasant land).

 

[TribulationSigns]

The material the statue will be made of is not specified.

Of course, because it is not a physical statue! Do you even know what an image in Revelation 13 is about, don't you?

Revelation 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

Revelation chapter 13 uses this imagery to paint a portrait of the carnal kingdom of Satan, as well as the false prophets whom he empowers to devour those without the seal of God. The carnal, rebellious, disobedient man ruled by Satan is the likness (image) of the beast in the CHURCH! This is where the holy place is that they set up abomination of desolation at! Church! Not temple mount!

The false prophets, the second beast, deceive the unfaithful people and seduce them into serving this antichrist kingdom by means of false miracles, signs and wonders. Remember, Satan was bound for the specific purpose of the nations not being deceived. Now that he is loosed, his false prophets again deceive the nations, in order to usher in the Lord's second coming.

Revelation 13:15-16

• " And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
• And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:"

The false prophets give life to the likeness of the Antichrist by propagating their false teachings, which leads to them overcoming the church and causing all the faithful therein (the two witnesses) to be killed (silenced - not physical killed). Those remaining as a judgment of God are said to be marked on their hand (not literally as some suppose, but spiritually) signifying their will belongs to Satan, and in their forehead, signifying their mind is sold out to Satan. Just as a cow is branded or marked to signify ownership, so this signifies these unsealed are slaves to the antichrist.

Revelation 13:17-18

• "And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
• Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six."

Not the number of "a" man as may be written in your "translation," but the original says it is the number "of Man," signifying the lawless man (man of sin) or man of lawlessness. The buying and selling signify the work of the church as we are merchant of the Gospel in the church! And no one can work there except those who have been spiritually marked slaves of Satan so they will continue to exchange false gospels among themselves as they please because there is no resistance from the Two Witnesses that are now dead (truthful witness being silenced).

The mark God tells us is 666, the number of man (not a man). So one need to know how to count that number.

 

[TribulationSigns]

If anyone wants to know HOW the power of the beast gives LIFE unto the image of the beast? And how will it speak?

The power is in their tongues! A false god can only come to life through the words of men, who speak, teach and propagate them. Don't forget that Satan works (speaks) through men, as they are the ones with the spirit of disobedience. In this cryptic imagery, Satan has given his children his number!! That's also why God says it is the number of man (unsaved man). Because like being branded, they are indicated as slaves to Satan, constrained to do his will as opposed to Christians doing the will of the Lamb. The beast is brought to life through the doctrines and teachings of the sinful man, or man of lawlessness (any way you want to translate it). The second beast represents the false prophets of THIS kingdom which is the New Testament congregation where God allows them to enter as a judgment upon the unfaithful. They have the power to give life to the beast because get this.... words are power! It's always been!

Note it says their power was "that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed." As we look to Revelation chapter 11, it is the false prophets and teachers (aka beast) who kill the two witnesses. And they kill them with false teachings that extinguish the true witness! That is why truthful witnesses are being suppressed in the church today and replaced with doctrines like homosexuality, divorce and remarriage, women in positions, feeling-good gospels, politics, entertainment with worldly music, etc. Because the two witnesses' truthful witnesses TORMENTED the unrighteous "because" it was an offense to them. Just as Christ's Words tormented and made angry the rulers of Israel who wanted to have him killed. Same picture, but this time it has to do with God's witnesses because we are the body of Christ! Selah!

 

[TribulationSigns]

People, please consider wisely...

The word of the false prophets and christs (second beast) bring life to the first beast in the same way as our preaching of the gospel brings life to our congregation or body of Christ. Antichrist (substitute Christ) versus Christ. The death blow by Christ, the binding of Satan, at the Cross took away the life of the beast so that Christ's church could be built for the past 1,900 years! Now, after the church is built, the testimony of the two witnesses for the purpose of salvation is finished, and with all Elect being secured by Christ, this beast has given life one again that the nations (that couldn't be deceived) are now allowed to be deceived (Revelation 20). This time against the New Testament congregation, the camps of the Saints all over the world. This is Gog of Magog! In order for Satan to accomplish this, he is working through the false prophets and christs in the congregations to replace Gospel with abominations over time to the point of church desolation as a judgment of God for unfaithfulness. I am afraid that it is happening right now if you have spiritual eyes to see.

 

[Douggg]

My theory Doug:
The little horn (the Antichrist) will become US president and will threaten Mexico (to the south), China (far east) and will make alliances with Israel (the pleasant land).

China is directionally speaking to the west of the United States. China is called the far east (and Russia the far north)- because that term is relative to Jerusalem.

To wax exceeding great implies that the little horn heads south and east with a strong army. He will be coming from the EU.

The little horn heads south and east toward the pleasant land - Israel. The verse is giving directions toward Israel. It does not say anything in the verse about making alliances with Israel.

Daniel 8:9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

It is talking about the little horn person moving his EU army into the middle east following Gog/Magog, on his premise of being a peace keeper in the region. With the underlying motivation for the EU to take control of all the oil in the region (that should be something pretty easy to assume - right?).


Daniel 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

 

[Douggg]

The 1st beast (beast from the sea) is the Antichrist whom I foresee to be the 51st president of the USA. He will lose in the next election (the mortal head wound mentioned in Revelation 13), but incredibly re-claims the presidency 4 years later (his wound is healed per Revelation 13:3).

Chris, I dont think that is what it means in Revelation 13.

Take a look at verse 14...

14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

The implication is that he will be physically killed.

To know why, is because he magnifies himself in his heart, thinks he has achieved God-hood. He goes into the temple (to be rebuilt), sits, claiming to be God. That audacious act will anger God, and in Ezekiel 28:1-10, (the person cloaked as the pseudo name - prince of tyre) God has strangers come against him and slay him - i.e. he will be assassinated.

2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:

So the person, by his act will be proclaiming to all the world that he is God.


6 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God;

7 Behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness.

8 They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas.

9 Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, I am God? but thou shalt be a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee.

So he will be killed and his soul in hell.

Then when we look at Isaiah 14:18-20, we read that God does not let his soul remain there long, nor have the honor of his body being laid to rest in an ornate tomb. God has much disdain for the person - a Jew - who destroys his land and his people, verse 20. God returns his soul to his lifeless body and the slain man of sin sits up in his casket - back alive.

In Revelation 17:8 it indicates that the world will be dumbfouned, leading them to believe his claim of having achieved God hood is true.

But it will be the strong delusion that God sends in 2Thessalonians2:10-12 for them willing to be deceived - because they reject the truth of Jesus being the Son of God and salvation through him.

 

[Chris Thomas Shepherd]

China is directionally speaking to the west of the United States. China is called the far east (and Russia the far north)- because that term is relative to Jerusalem.

To wax exceeding great implies that the little horn heads south and east with a strong army. He will be coming from the EU.

The little horn heads south and east toward the pleasant land - Israel. The verse is giving directions toward Israel. It does not say anything in the verse about making alliances with Israel.

Daniel 8:9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

It is talking about the little horn person moving his EU army into the middle east following Gog/Magog, on his premise of being a peace keeper in the region. With the underlying motivation for the EU to take control of all the oil in the region (that should be something pretty easy to assume - right?).


Daniel 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

Well, my premise was that the US allies with Israel as protection from a now nuclear ready Iran. The US uses this as a pretense, as you said, to control oil in the middle east (so we agree on that).

 

[Douggg]

Well, my premise was that the US allies with Israel as protection from a now nuclear ready Iran. The US uses this as a pretense, as you said, to control oil in the middle east (so we agree on that).

Chris, I don't disagree that the U.S. is an ally to Israel. And their recent joint military exercises validate that. With the obvious motivation to also deter Iran from a nuclear strike.

But I don't think that is what the bible verses are pointing to in Daniel 8:9.

 

[Douggg]

Of course, because it is not a physical statue! Do you even know what an image in Revelation 13 is about, don't you?


Revelation chapter 13 uses this imagery to paint a portrait of the carnal kingdom of Satan, as well as the false prophets whom he empowers to devour those without the seal of God. The carnal, rebellious, disobedient man ruled by Satan is the likness (image) of the beast in the CHURCH! This is where the holy place is that they set up abomination of desolation at! Church! Not temple mount!

The false prophets, the second beast, deceive the unfaithful people and seduce them into serving this antichrist kingdom by means of false miracles, signs and wonders. Remember, Satan was bound for the specific purpose of the nations not being deceived. Now that he is loosed, his false prophets again deceive the nations, in order to usher in the Lord's second coming.

Revelation 13:15-16

• " And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
• And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:"

The false prophets give life to the likeness of the Antichrist by propagating their false teachings, which leads to them overcoming the church and causing all the faithful therein (the two witnesses) to be killed (silenced - not physical killed). Those remaining as a judgment of God are said to be marked on their hand (not literally as some suppose, but spiritually) signifying their will belongs to Satan, and in their forehead, signifying their mind is sold out to Satan. Just as a cow is branded or marked to signify ownership, so this signifies these unsealed are slaves to the antichrist.

Revelation 13:17-18

• "And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
• Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six."

Not the number of "a" man as may be written in your "translation," but the original says it is the number "of Man," signifying the lawless man (man of sin) or man of lawlessness. The buying and selling signify the work of the church as we are merchant of the Gospel in the church! And no one can work there except those who have been spiritually marked slaves of Satan so they will continue to exchange false gospels among themselves as they please because there is no resistance from the Two Witnesses that are now dead (truthful witness being silenced).

The mark God tells us is 666, the number of man (not a man). So one need to know how to count that number.

Idealist gibberish.

 

[Oseas]

There will be two SATANIC Beasts reigning on the whole Earth: Europe, and Asia, Africa, Oceania(Australia), North America, Central America and South America. Revelation 13 - King James Version - written around 95AD-65 years after JESUS 's ascencion

FIRST BEAST - THE BEAST OF SEA - A GENTILE BEAST

1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a Beast rise up out of the sea (a Gentile Beast=SEA means waters=>peoples , and nations, and multitudes of all tongues) having seven heads(7 mounts) and ten horns(Daniel 7:7), and upon his (10) horns ten crowns(title of nobility), and upon his (7) heads the NAME of blasphemy. (What kind of blasphemy's NAME)

2 And the Beast which I saw (the Beast of sea) was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion(here the origin/roots of the Beast of sea-Daniel 7:4-6):and the dragon (Satan incarnated, a former Cherub, son of perdition-2 Thes. 2:3-4 combined with Revelation 12:3-4) gave him (gave to the Beast of sea) his Power, and his Seat (in Jerusalem), and great Authority.

3 And I saw one of his (7) heads (in my view will be South America) as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed (was healed because Satan incarnated, a former Cherub, son of perdition-2 Thes. 2:3-4 combined with Revelation 12:3-4) gave him (gave to the Beast of sea) his Power, and his Seat (in Jerusalem), and great Authority, and all the world wondered after the Beast.

4 And they(all the world) worshipped the dragon(worshipped Satan incarnated, a former Cherub, son of perdition-2 Thes. 2:3-4 combined with Revelation 12:3-4) which gave power unto the Beast(gave power unto the Gentile Beast of sea): and they worshipped the Beast, saying, Who is like unto the Beast? who is able to make WAR with him? (Michael is able - Revelation 12)

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. (first half of the last week, week 70th Daniel 9:24)

6 And he (the Gentile Beast of sea) opened (will open) his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name (against JESUS), and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven (who dwell in heaven is revealed in Ephesians 1:v.3 among others).

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints (Get ready -There will be two religious and satanic Beasts in the days ahead), and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.

10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.


SECOND BEAST - THE BEAST OF EARTH LIKE A LAMB - A JEWISH BEAST

11 And I beheld ANOTHER Beast coming up out of the earth (a second Beast); and he has two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.( a false lamb, actually a false messiah-John 5:43-47)

12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first Beast before him (the Beast of earth is much more powerful than the Beast of the sea), and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first Beast(the Beast of sea), whose deadly wound was healed. (was healed because Satan incarnated, a former Cherub, son of perdition-2 Thes. 2:3-4 combined with Revelation 12:3-4, gave to the Beast of sea, his Power, his Throne in Jerusalem, and great Authority)

13 And he (the esoteric, and kabbalistic and spiritist Beast of earth like a lamb, a false lamb) doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth(earth here is Israel) by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the Beast (in the sight of the Beast of sea); saying to them that dwell on the earth (dwell in Israel), that they should make an image to the Beast, which had the wound by a SWORD, and did live. (the SWORD is the Word of GOD, a sharp Sword-Hebrew 4:12-13)

15 And he (the esoteric, and kabbalistic and spiritist Beast of earth like a lamb, a false lamb) has power to give life unto the image of the Beast, that the image of the Beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the Beast should be killed.

16 And he (the esoteric, and kabbalistic and spiritist Beast of earth like a lamb, a false lamb) causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the NAME of the Beast, or the NUMBER of his NAME.

18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding COUNT (not calculate) the number of the Beast: for it is the NUMBER of a man; and his NUMBER is Six hundred threescore and six.

Get ready, there will be two religious and SATANIC Beasts reigning in the Earth very soon, by the way, the last Pope must be elected, who will reign together the esoteric, and kabbalistic, and spiritist Beast of the earth having two horns and speaks as Dragon, in the period of the last week of seven years. Both Beasts will rule a religious and SATANIC MONSTER having 7 heads, and 10 horns(symbol of the 10 tribes of Israel-the clay), having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. And with his TAIL-Isaiah 9:15-16- will draw to him the third part of the stars of heaven(heaven? Ephesians 1:v.3),

Get ready

 

[TribulationSigns]

Idealist gibberish.

Please. You are just saying this to avoid actually answering my questions challenged you to explain exactly what is the image. And how it receives life from the beast. And how it speaks AND kills those who refuse to worship it. Worship what exactly? An inanimate statue or false doctrines?

I would say, literalist gibberish. I know that for a fact because I am a former Pre-tribulation Premillennialist for over 20 years. Because The book of Revelation requires spiritual discernment that premillennialists lack...just like the blind Jews in Christ's days. Nothing new under the sun.

 

[DavidPT]

Revelation chapter 13 uses this imagery to paint a portrait of the carnal kingdom of Satan, as well as the false prophets whom he empowers to devour those without the seal of God. The carnal, rebellious, disobedient man ruled by Satan is the likness (image) of the beast in the CHURCH! This is where the holy place is that they set up abomination of desolation at! Church! Not temple mount!

The false prophets, the second beast, deceive the unfaithful people and seduce them into serving this antichrist kingdom by means of false miracles, signs and wonders. Remember, Satan was bound for the specific purpose of the nations not being deceived. Now that he is loosed, his false prophets again deceive the nations, in order to usher in the Lord's second coming.

Even though I'm Premil, this basically sums up my view of these things as well, meaning what I quoted from your post above. It certainly makes better sense than Douggg's hyper literal interpretation of some of these things. When one interprets things such as this in Revelation in a literal sense, it shows a lack of spiritual discernment. And the same for 2 Thessalonians 2:4, as another example. But even so, as you will find out per your thread that you just started involving it's image, that though I might be on the same page with you in regards to what I quoted above, it still matters about chronology of events though, thus Revelation 20:4 and the saints that are martyred for refusing to worship it's image, it is meaning after the beast has ascended out of the pit. Therefore, placing the time involving Revelation 13, before that of the thousand years, not after. Therefore, that equals Premil not Amil.