My Journey to Universalism

[HSong]

Also, I've begun to reflect on how fate led me to this particular forum. It's interesting. I would originally only post on the Tentmaker site. That's one of the first places I began researching Universalism years ago. But suddenly one day, the forum shut down. Even to this day it's still not back up. Because of that, I began searching for other forums to post about Universalism, which is how I ended up here.

Of course, it's bad that the Tentmaker site forum is closed at the moment. There's a lot of useful information on there. It makes me glad I was able to partially back up the HTML with HTTrack Website Copier. But at the same time, maybe it was God's way of getting me out of my comfort zone. After all, there are still people out there who would benefit from learning about God's plan to save everyone.

So, I'm thankful that there's support for Universalism in other forums like this one too. For those who are against Universalism, it's also good to see their participation on these threads as well. In fact, I'm surprised by how much activity are on these threads. Much more active than the Tentmaker site. As a disclaimer, while I do read through every page of my threads on here, sometimes I'm not able to reply to absolutely everything.

It's interesting. Before I believed in Universalism, I would go out there and evangelize people who did not believe in Christianity. I still do that, but now, with Universalism, I feel I can send them a more complete message. It makes me wish I could have learned about Universalism earlier so back then; more people would have known the truth. But everyone will eventually learn the truth. And each person is on their own unique journey of discovery set out by the Lord. So, there's no need to worry.

I used to go soulwinning to people out of anxiety and panic, worrying about where their souls may go after they die. But with Universalism, I believe that I can spread these Christian beliefs without perturbation.

 

[Der Alte]

Also, I've begun to reflect on how fate led me to this particular forum. It's interesting. I would originally only post on the Tentmaker site. That's one of the first places I began researching Universalism years ago. But suddenly one day, the forum shut down. Even to this day it's still not back up. Because of that, I began searching for other forums to post about Universalism, which is how I ended up here.
Of course, it's bad that the Tentmaker site forum is closed at the moment. There's a lot of useful information on there. It makes me glad I was able to partially back up the HTML with HTTrack Website Copier. But at the same time, maybe it was God's way of getting me out of my comfort zone. After all, there are still people out there who would benefit from learning about God's plan to save everyone.
So, I'm thankful that there's support for Universalism in other forums like this one too. For those who are against Universalism, it's also good to see their participation on these threads as well. In fact, I'm surprised by how much activity are on these threads. Much more active than the Tentmaker site. As a disclaimer, while I do read through every page of my threads on here, sometimes I'm not able to reply to absolutely everything.
It's interesting. Before I believed in Universalism, I would go out there and evangelize people who did not believe in Christianity. I still do that, but now, with Universalism, I feel I can send them a more complete message. It makes me wish I could have learned about Universalism earlier so back then; more people would have known the truth. But everyone will eventually learn the truth. And each person is on their own unique journey of discovery set out by the Lord. So, there's no need to worry.
I used to go soulwinning to people out of anxiety and panic, worrying about where their souls may go after they die. But with Universalism, I believe that I can spread these Christian beliefs without perturbation.

I joined this forum either Dec '89 or Jan '90, can't remember exactly. Early on I encountered members who quoted extensively from "Tentmaker" and another UR website, "Hell Busters." Both appear to have disappeared. I spent a lot of time refuting the quotes from both sites.

 

[BNR32FAN]

You may not be familiar with the prophet Jeremiah BNR.

"The steadfast love of the Lord NEVER ceases!"

Obviously intended to be taken into consideration with the rest of scripture my friend.

 

[Jipsah]

That would probably make a nice postcard but it’s not biblical. The word of God says what it says regardless of whether or not we like it or agree with it.

And here's what it says:

Lamentations 3:22-23
22 The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases,
his mercies never come to an end;
23 they are new every morning;
great is thy faithfulness.

 

[BNR32FAN]

This is true! There are many verses that talk about the Lord's steadfast love. It is His desire to love us. And God does what He desires. Therefore, He will save us all because He loves us all. He will never stop until all of us our saved because that's what He wants. His steadfast love guarantees it!

Psalm 33:22 - "Let your steadfast love, O Lord, be upon us, even as we hope in you."

Lamentations 3:22-23 ESV The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases;

Psalm 118:1-29 Oh give thanks to the Lord, for he is good; for His steadfast love endures forever!

Psalm 117:1-2 ESV Praise the Lord, all nations! Extol him, all peoples! For great is His steadfast love toward us, and the faithfulness of the Lord endures forever. Praise the Lord!

Then everyone who says to Christ Lord Lord will enter Heaven? Matthew 7:21-23

Everyone who blasphemes the Holy Spirit will be forgiven? Luke 12:10

It would not have been better for Judas if he had never been born? Matthew 26:24

 

[BNR32FAN]

And here's what it says:

Lamentations 3:22-23
22 The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases,
his mercies never come to an end;
23 they are new every morning;
great is thy faithfulness.

Yeah so how does your interpretation of that verse line up with Matthew 7:21-23, Luke 12:10, and Matthew 26:24? Your interpretation should line up with all of these verses without contradiction.

 

[Jipsah]

Jesus will say "I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity"

Jesus says "I never knew you". How does our Lord fail to remember someone to whom He's speaking? Maybe because they never existed? That they have been erased from time and space? Eternally destroyed, utterly annihilated? Never to be mourned, or even briefly remembered, because they never existed?

The idea that God doesn't actually torture anyone forever, but simply deletes them would come as a great disappontment to some folks. They have a lot of emotional capital invested in seeing that the Sinners Get Theirs. "They lose, we win! Mansei!

When Jesus says

"never" He means "never."

That would cover the past too, then, wouldn't it?

 

[BNR32FAN]

And here's what it says:

Lamentations 3:22-23
22 The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases,
his mercies never come to an end;
23 they are new every morning;
great is thy faithfulness.

You need to research the definition of the Hebrew word “chasad”. Lamentations 3:22 Lexicon: The LORD'S lovingkindnesses indeed never cease, For His compassions never fail.

 

[Jipsah]

Yeah so how does your interpretation of that verse line up with Matthew 7:21-23, Luke 12:10, and Matthew 26:24? Your interpretation should line up with all of these verses without contradiction.

I don't have an interpretation, it says what it says.

I was responding to your contention that those verses weren't in the Bible. They obviously are, and, as you so sagely pointed out: "The word of God says what it says regardless of whether or not we like it or agree with it." Right?

 

[Jipsah]

You need to research the definition of the Hebrew word “chasad”.

I think that verse has already been translated by professionals. I'm not particularly interested in what amateur Hebrew scholars think it "really means".

 

[BNR32FAN]

Jesus says "I never knew you". How does our Lord fail to remember someone to whom He's speaking? Maybe because they never existed? That they have been erased from time and space? Eternally destroyed, utterly annihilated? Never to be mourned, or even briefly remembered, because they never existed?

The idea that God doesn't actually torture anyone forever, but simply deletes them would come as a great disappontment to some folks. They have a lot of emotional capital invested in seeing that the Sinners Get Theirs. "They lose, we win! Mansei!

That would cover the past too, then, wouldn't it?

The term “I never knew you” refers to having an intimate relationship with Christ. Just like in Matthew 1:25 Joseph never knew Mary until Jesus was born. It means Joseph didn’t have intimate relations with her until after Jesus was born not that Joseph didn’t know Mary until after Jesus was born.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I don't have an interpretation, it says what it says.

I was responding to your contention that those verses weren't in the Bible. They obviously are, and, as you so sagely pointed out: "The word of God says what it says regardless of whether or not we like it or agree with it." Right?

Your translation is incorrect as I pointed out by providing the definition of the Hebrew words that were written in the scriptures. Lamentations 3:22 Lexicon: The LORD'S lovingkindnesses indeed never cease, For His compassions never fail.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I think that verse has already been translated by professionals. I'm not particularly interested in what amateur Hebrew scholars think it "really means".

Yet your translation contradicts the three verses I quoted earlier. A proper translation and interpretation will line up with ALL scripture not just bits & pieces.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I think that verse has already been translated by professionals. I'm not particularly interested in what amateur Hebrew scholars think it "really means".

What you consider to be an “amateur translation” doesn’t contradict the three verses I quoted.

 

[Jipsah]

The term “I never knew you” refers to having an intimate relationship with Christ.

Ah, you're going to explain to me what it really means, yes? Many thanks, your opinion is duly noted.

Just like in Matthew 1:25 Joseph never knew Mary until Jesus was born. It means Joseph didn’t have intimate relations with her until after Jesus was born not that Joseph didn’t know Mary until after Jesus was born.

What an extraordinarily awkward "explanation".

 

[Jipsah]

Yet your translation contradicts the three verses I quoted earlier. A proper translation and interpretation will line up with ALL scripture not just bits & pieces.

Thank you for what I'm sure is your sincere amateur's opinion. But until you can manage to have those reverses removed from the Bible, I'll stick with the admonition that "The word of God says what it says regardless of whether or not we like it or agree with it."

 

[Der Alte]

...

Jesus says "I never knew you". How does our Lord fail to remember someone to whom He's speaking? Maybe because they never existed? That they have been erased from time and space? Eternally destroyed, utterly annihilated? Never to be mourned, or even briefly remembered, because they never existed?
The idea that God doesn't actually torture anyone forever, but simply deletes them would come as a great disappontment to some folks. They have a lot of emotional capital invested in seeing that the Sinners Get Theirs. "They lose, we win! Mansei!
That would cover the past too, then, wouldn't it?

미안한 친구 I am not into playing word games.
Most of what you posted above is hateful rubbish. "I never knew you." are the words of Jesus, Himself, not mine, and you are trying to twist them around. Since you are making a game out of this please tell me what you think Jesus meant when He said, "I never knew you?"

 

[BNR32FAN]

Ah, you're going to explain to me what it really means, yes? Many thanks, your opinion is duly noted.

What an extraordinarily awkward "explanation".

The word “knew” is used in the exact same context in both verses. There’s nothing awkward about it when you realize that this was an expression used during that time.

 

[Jipsah]

미안한 친구 I am not into playing word games.

Nor am I.

Most of what you posted above is hateful rubbish.

Hateful, forsooth! And racist as well, maybe?

"I never knew you." are the words of Jesus, Himself,

Stipulated. And I believe if you'll look again, you'll find that I acknowledsge it

not mine, and you are trying to twist them around. Since you are making a game out of this please tell me what you think Jesus meant when He said, "I never knew you?"

Nope, I'm not a "really meaner". Our Lord said what He said.
Brace yourself for this, because I'm sure you'll recoil in horror at the very thought; He meant what He said. No "what He really meant" there, which may have served to confuse you. He said it because it's true, they no longer exist in the universe He created; they don't, they never did, they never will. Poof, gone. No word games there, no what He really meant, no "interpretation", no doublespeak. They never were, and as such they can't be remembered.

Very simple, really. For instance, do you remember the infamous trigonaschlockter? No? Perhaps because it never existed. Whether it was good or evil is of no importance, because it never was. If, in theory it had existed, and it offended God, then God could have snipped it out of the timeline, and therefore it would never have existed at all.

I know, that probably falls under your list of thing that "God Can't". but I think that list is bogus. God can; it's His creation, all of it. If He edits someone out of the cosmic org chart, then they never existed, end of.

Is that hateful? Maybe if you set a lot of store by the idea of store by ECT. I don't, because I see more Biblical evidence against it than for it. (This is where you whang the macro key about what the Jews thought, Dante's Inferno, and the EOC). Your lot have to redefine what the Bible says every sentence or so to make it look like God is the merciless fiend you preach, but I ain't buying that. Y'all disregard what our Lord Himself actually said about His Body and Blood (do I keep going back to that? You betcher boots I do, it's Exhibit A of how your bunch decides what your doctrine is and then hammers the Word to fit it.) I'd say you people are the hateful ones. You'll cheer when I'm chucked into the Eternal Furnace that you believe God has provided, but if I'm right I'll never know the lost ever existed, because they didn't. (And if the Unis are right, I'm still get to "neener neener" you.)

 

[Jipsah]

The word “knew” is used in the exact same context in both verses.

As in sexual relations? Hmmmm...