My `homework` on Daniel`s 4 beasts.

[Marilyn C]

Hi Marilyn,

the flaw in your presentation is that the four beasts (kingdoms) have to parallel the four kingdoms in the Daniel 2 statue image - because both Daniel 7 and Daniel 2 end the same way, of the Kingdom of God, Jesus's kingdom, being inherited by the saints here on earth to rule over the nations.

And the first kingdom in Daniel 2 was Nebuchadnezzar's kingdom - not England.

So it starts with Babylonian empire, next the Medo-Persian empire, next the Greek empire, then the Roman Empire, which an end times version of the Roman Empire of the ten toes - which correspond to the ten kings in Daniel 7.

Hi Dougg,

Only the last kingdoms has to match - the 10 toes and the 10 horns/kings of the final Federation. I am amazed at how people cannot count. Dan. 2 the great Image has 5 components while Dan. 7 has 4 beasts.

The great Image is the complete Gentile World Rulership before Christ sets up His kingdom rule through Israel.

The 4 beast kingdoms of Dan. 7 reveal the great powers that come together under the rulership of the last one. God is giving the detail of the composite final beastly world rulership as seen in Rev. 13.

 

[jgr]

Let`s count together. Dan. 2 the Great Image.

1. Head - Babylon (Judged by God and no more World Ruler, Dan. 5: 30 & 31)
2. Chest & Arms - Medes & Persians. (Judged by God and no more World Ruler)
3.Belly & Thighs - Greece - (Judged by God and no more World Ruler)
4. Legs - Rome (Judged by God and no more World Ruler)

5. Feet & toes - Divided kingdom (Still to come and be World Ruler)

This is the same kingdom as described in Dan. 7: 7. (which we agree on)

Daniel 2
33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.

Legs and feet both include the iron which is of a single kingdom.

Nor do we see a "fifth kingdom" anywhere in the entirety of Scripture.

Four kingdoms.

Confirmed by Scripture, history, archaeology, and anthropology.

And the understanding of virtually every recognized Christian scholar before the 19th century.

 

[jgr]

People are human and make mistakes. No one is infallible! You need to get your head out of the past and really see what God is doing today.

I'll take virtually every recognized Christian scholar prior to the 19th century over less than two centuries of modernist dispensational fantasy and fallacy.

Every time.

 

[Marilyn C]

Daniel 2
33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.

Legs and feet both include the iron which is of a single kingdom.

Nor do we see a "fifth kingdom" anywhere in the entirety of Scripture.

Four kingdoms.

Confirmed by Scripture, history, archaeology, and anthropology.

And the understanding of virtually every recognized Christian scholar before the 19th century.

The `iron,` designated `STRENGTH,` and NOT the name of the kingdom.

`the fourth kingdom shall be AS STRONG AS IRON....` (Dan. 2: 40)

`Whereas the toes and feet were partly of potter`s clay and partly of IRON, the kingdom shall be divided; yet the STRENGTH of the IRON shall be in it.` (Dan. 2: 42)

IRON is a description of STRENGTH.

 

[Marilyn C]

I'll take virtually every recognized Christian scholar prior to the 19th century over less than two centuries of modernist dispensational fantasy and fallacy.

Every time.

It is the Holy Spirit who is guiding us into all truth. Be careful you don't miss out on what God is doing TODAY!

 

[Douggg]

Hi Dougg,

Only the last kingdoms has to match - the 10 toes and the 10 horns/kings of the final Federation. I am amazed at how people cannot count. Dan. 2 the great Image has 5 components while Dan. 7 has 4 beasts.

The great Image is the complete Gentile World Rulership before Christ sets up His kingdom rule through Israel.

The 4 beast kingdoms of Dan. 7 reveal the great powers that come together under the rulership of the last one. God is giving the detail of the composite final beastly world rulership as seen in Rev. 13.

Marilyn, the reason to not think 5 kingdoms in Daniel 2 is because in Daniel 7 the ten kings and the little horn are of the fourth kingdom state in the text..

Therefore, the kingdom of the feet and toes are the fourth kingdom in the end times; but in a mixed state of some parts weak, some part strong. Which there seems to be in the EU.

 

[jgr]

The `iron,` designated `STRENGTH,` and NOT the name of the kingdom.

`the fourth kingdom shall be AS STRONG AS IRON....` (Dan. 2: 40)

`Whereas the toes and feet were partly of potter`s clay and partly of IRON, the kingdom shall be divided; yet the STRENGTH of the IRON shall be in it.` (Dan. 2: 42)

IRON is a description of STRENGTH.

Daniel 2
33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.

Iron present in both legs and feet signifies that they were part of the same single kingdom.

The fourth kingdom.

 

[Marilyn C]

Marilyn, the reason to not think 5 kingdoms in Daniel 2 is because in Daniel 7 the ten kings and the little horn are of the fourth kingdom state in the text..

Therefore, the kingdom of the feet and toes are the fourth kingdom in the end times; but in a mixed state of some parts weak, some part strong. Which there seems to be in the EU.

I agree Douggg, that the final Gentile World leader as shown in the Great Image is shown in more detail in Dan. 7.

So let me ask you which do you see as `terrifying, dreadful, and that would devour and break in pieces and trample others?` The EU (which does NOT like to go to war) OR ISLAM?

 

[Marilyn C]

Daniel 2
33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.

Iron present in both legs and feet signifies that they were part of the same single kingdom.

The fourth kingdom.

So God did not judge Rome and it is still ruling the world?

 

[jgr]

It is the Holy Spirit who is guiding us into all truth. Be careful you don't miss out on what God is doing TODAY!

It is the Holy Spirit who guided the historical Christian scholars into all truth. Be careful you don't miss out on the wisdom and discernment that He imparted to them for our benefit TODAY.

 

[jgr]

So God did not judge Rome and it is still ruling the world?

Scripture?

 

[Marilyn C]

It is the Holy Spirit who guided the historical Christian scholars into all truth. Be careful you don't miss out on the wisdom and discernment that He imparted to them for our benefit TODAY.

So there has been NO clarification of scripture since the 19 century? And those of the past were infallible?

 

[Marilyn C]

Scripture?

`God has numbered your kingdom, and finished it;...` (Dan. 5: 26)

God is just and has judged each world ruler. What God did by judging Babylon He did for all the others and will do for the final world Ruler to come.

The first four world rulers have all gone and history shows us this is true.

 

[jgr]

So there has been NO clarification of scripture since the 19 century? And those of the past were infallible?

The future does not exist. How can it be clarified?

Historical evidence does exist, and can be, and is, clarified and clarifiable.

No individual is infallible. But the virtually unanimous testimony of multiple individuals over more than 1,000 years of recognized scholarship in the true Christian Church is far more likely to be accurate than that of a lesser number of individuals over a much shorter time frame.

 

[jgr]

`God has numbered your kingdom, and finished it;...` (Dan. 5: 26)

God is just and has judged each world ruler. What God did by judging Babylon He did for all the others and will do for the final world Ruler to come.

The first four world rulers have all gone and history shows us this is true.

Yes, the first four world rulers have all gone, and there is no fifth in Scripture.

 

[Marilyn C]

Yes, the first four world rulers have all gone, and there is no fifth in Scripture.

So there is no more world Rulers to come? I see the Gentiles are still ruling the world.

 

[jgr]

So there is no more world Rulers to come? I see the Gentiles are still ruling the world.

We see two references in Scripture, corroborating one another, to a "fourth kingdom".

We see no references in Scripture to a "fifth kingdom".

 

[jgr]

So there is no more world Rulers to come? I see the Gentiles are still ruling the world.

Although not identified as the "fifth kingdom", because it is utterly unlike and apart from its predecessors, you can find the fifth kingdom for which you are searching in Daniel 2:44:

44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

It is the spiritual kingdom which Christ set up at His first coming. It is unique and immutable and invincible. It is realized in His Church.

 

[Marilyn C]

Although not identified as the "fifth kingdom", because it is utterly unlike and apart from its predecessors, you can find the fifth kingdom for which you are searching in Daniel 2:44:

44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

It is the spiritual kingdom which Christ set up at His first coming. It is unique and immutable and invincible. It is realized in His Church.

I agree that the Lord is ruler over His Body of believers - a heavenly nation. However we still see that the Gentiles are being brought to the Lord`s footstool for Judgment. (Ps. 110: 1) Thus there is one more World Ruler to come.

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

In Dan. 2 the Great Image there are 5 World Rulers. Four have come and gone and are mentioned in God`s word. The 5th World Ruler has yet to arise. The leader is called the Assyrian, from the area of Syria, Iraq & Jordan. (Isa. 31: 8) That will be from the Federation of Islam.

The four beastly kingdoms of Dan. 7 are contemporary with the final beast eventually ruling over the others and the whole earth.

Yeah, just more false prophecy in the guise of pop culture end of the world teachings.