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Featured My `homework` on Daniel`s 4 beasts.

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Marilyn C, Aug 12, 2020.

  1. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

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    I was asked on another thread to do my homework on certain questions regarding Daniel`s 4 beasts. I thought they were good questions and need a thread of their own for discussion.

    The questions given to me are in bold print.


    What are the four winds of the heaven represent?

    God`s word tell us who the 4 winds of heaven are -

    `These are 4 spirits of heaven, who go out from their station before the Lord of all the earth.` Zech. 6: 5)

    Note winds and spirits are the same word in Hebrew - `rumach,` meaning, wind by resemblance of breath, spirit.



    What does the great sea represent?

    God says - ``the wicked are like the troubled sea.` (Isa. 57: 20)
     
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  2. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

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    What does the Lion represent?

    The `lion` beast is one of the four kingdoms that emerge from the peoples of the world. We see in God`s word that it represents `rulership.` (Gen. 49: 8 -10) Jacob was prophesying concerning his sons and to Judah he called a lion and that he would hold the sceptre of rulership.

    The Director
    of International Academy of Heraldry, O. Neubecker, and one of the foremost in this field, explains - `The appearance of a lion as a heraldic beast by no means indicates that it is part of the native fauna of that country: its use comes from the significance attributed to it. The lion is the symbol of Royal Sovereignty and the eagle the symbol of Imperial Power.`


    In combination we have the initial clue to the identity of this first contemporary great power to emerge. A sovereign Monarchy which exercised imperialistic power over a substantial area of the world. ie. An empire ruled by a Monarch.


    Eagle's wings represent?

    Further revelation was given to Daniel. `As I looked its wings were plucked off.` (Dan. 7: 4)

    The empire lost its capacity for imperialistic expansion.

    Part of the empire became a separate nation with the eagle as its emblem.


    Why do the Eagle's wings plucked and make the lion stand up upon the feet as a man?

    `It was made to stand on its two feet like a man: and the spirit of a man was given to it.` (Dan. 7: 4)

    Here is transformation. Until now the outlook and operation had been that of a powerful beast, imperialistic conquering, domination and colonising.


    Why is man's heart was given to a lion?

    Suddenly there is a remarkable change to the higher qualities of the spirit of man. In political language, co-existing in freedom, peace and equality with its former dominions. An empire becomes a Commonwealth of nations.

    H.M.Queen Elizabeth 2 as head of the Commonwealth, broadcasted - `The Commonwealth bears no resemblance to the empires of the past. It is an entirely new conception built on the highest qualities of the Spirit of Man; Friendship, loyalty and the desire for freedom and peace.`
     
  3. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

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    What does the Bear represent?

    `The second beast like to a bear - to devour much flesh.` (Dan. 7: 5)

    Without controversy and well documented, the bear is the national symbol of the Soviets. It was not by accident that this was the emblem chosen for the Moscow Olympics. A friendly and loveable little bear to be sure. Daniel, however, records it as a ferocious beast devouring much flesh.

    Chronically the U.S.S.R was the second great power to arise in current end-time contention. It fits perfectly with the second confederacy of Daniel`s vision. It certainly `devoured` country after country, incorporating them into one monolithic dominion - behind the iron curtain.

    Frequently God gives revelation of the future through one of His prophets, then confirms, augments or continues the prediction through another.


    Ezekiel (38 & 39) enlarges our concept as he contemplates a mighty confederacy of independent nations. He specifies their geographical position relative to the nation of Israel. On three occasions he locates them in the `uttermost or extreme part of the North: (38: 6 & 15, 39: 2) There is only one great power that occupied that position - the U.S.S.R.


    Then we had Perestroika and the coup d`etat which were the catalysts to provide a phenomenal and precise fulfilment in 1991 of a prophecy of 25 centuries by Ez. 38. Today we have Russia and its independent states from the break up of the U.S.S.R.


    Why was the bear raised up itself on one side and has its three ribs in its mouth? What does it mean?


    `It was raised up on one side, and had three ribs in its mouth between its teeth.` (Dan. 7: 5)


    Metaphorically this represents 3 nations who have not previously been incorporated within the bear ie. behind the iron curtain. These now join the move into the Middle East. Ezekiel, in his predicted military confederacy, records exactly three such countries. They precisely conform to the prerequisites.

    `Persia (Iran), Ethiopia and Libya.` (Ez. 38: 5)

     
  4. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

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    What does the Leopard represent?

    `After this I looked, and there was another, like a leopard, which had on its back four wings of a bird. The beast had four heads, and dominion was given to it.` (Dan. 7: 6)

    In chronological sequence the third confederacy which emerged on the contemporary world scene was actually the European Common Market Bloc.

    French heralds were the first to display Leopards as an insignia. Also the Knights of France and Charlemange the first Emperor of All Europe used Leopards on shields and on banners.

    Obviously the heraldic use of `The Leopard` had direct European connotation.


    What do four wings of a fowl represent?

    I think it represents imperial power. The EU started off with 4 leaders and then over time expanded to 27 countries.


    Four heads?

    The four heads on this beast denote the multiplicity of authority or government who have united in common purpose. It is of importance that Daniel visualised this beast in its initial presentation. Six of the countries of Europe agreed to a commercial unity of purpose in a common market.

    However, at the time of inauguration, three of these countries, Belgium. Netherlands and Luxembourg combined their representation and voting, into one affliliated entity called the `Benelux.` Thus the European Common Market commenced with exactly four authorities or `Heads,` France, Germany, Italy and Benelux. This was precisely as predicted.


    What dominion was given to it?

    `Dominion was given to it.` (Dan. 7: 6)

    How meticulous and precise the prediction of Daniel. Each of the foundation member countries of the European Common Market was defeated and powerless at the conclusion of WW2. Authority as independent nations was granted by favour of the Allies. ie. Dominion was given to it.
     
  5. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

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    Why is the fourth beast dreadful and terrible?

    This kingdom devours, breaks in pieces and tramples the others. Thus I see that it is dreadful and terrible. To overcome these other great powers this last Federation must be horrific.

    Why is it different from first beasts?

    `a fourth beast....it was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns.` (Dan. 7: 7)

    This last Federation is different because it `shall devour the whole earth, trample it and it it in pieces.` (Dan. 7: 23) The other Federations did not do this but kept to their region.


    What do the ten horns represent?

    `The 10 horns are 10 kings who shall arise from this kingdom.` (Dan. 7: 24)

    God`s word tells us that the Assyrian shall fall when the Lord returns over Jerusalem. (Isa. 31: 4 - 8) This is, I believe the leader of the last Federation - Islam. The ancient area of Assyria is Syria, Iraq & Jordan. I believe those 3 countries will be the power base of this Islamic leader. Later 7 other `kings` will join and that will be the 10 king Federation.


    (Syria, Iraq, Jordan & Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain, United Arab Emirates, Oman, Yemen, Saudi Arabia)
     
  6. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Demonstrated historically to be, and confirmed by a majority of recognized historical Christian scholars to be, the empires of Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and Rome.
     
  7. Richard T

    Richard T Well-Known Member

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    The four heads coming from the 6 nations you mention are a stretch for a couple of reasons. 1) The agreement was not a full common market, not even close. The Treaty of Paris, (1951) set up the European coal and steel community. Yes, this served as part of the foundation for future EU integration but it was certainly not a common market yet. Secondly, I could find no source that suggests the NL, Belgium and Luxembourg, were combined. They were each given less votes, but each had their own representatives. this can be found in Ch 2 Article 21, "
    Article 21 The Assembly shall be composed of delegates whom the parliaments of each of the member States shall be called upon to designate once a year from among their own membership, or who shall be elected by direct universal suffrage, according to the procedure determined by each respective High Contracting Party.

    The number of delegates is fixed as follows:

    Germany 18 Belgium 10 France 18 Italy 18 Luxembourg 4 Netherlands 10

    The representatives of the people of the Saar are included in the number of delegates attributed to France." The Treaty establishing the European Coal and Steel Community (ECSC) - Wikisource, the free online library
    When the European Coal and Steel Community expended under the Treat of Rome in 1957, the proportion of representation remained the same. Treaty of Rome. It is true the Benelux nations coordinated among themselves in an agreement in 1944. "Of all the organisations for economic cooperation created in the post-war period, Benelux is considered a precursor and a proving ground." In other words, their first organization preceded the six nation, Treaty of Paris. Since each nation within the Benelux retained their own representation within the Euro Coal and Steel Community and later the EEC, I find it hard to see them as one group.
     
  8. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Hi Marilyn,

    the flaw in your presentation is that the four beasts (kingdoms) have to parallel the four kingdoms in the Daniel 2 statue image - because both Daniel 7 and Daniel 2 end the same way, of the Kingdom of God, Jesus's kingdom, being inherited by the saints here on earth to rule over the nations.

    And the first kingdom in Daniel 2 was Nebuchadnezzar's kingdom - not England.

    So it starts with Babylonian empire, next the Medo-Persian empire, next the Greek empire, then the Roman Empire, which an end times version of the Roman Empire of the ten toes - which correspond to the ten kings in Daniel 7.
     
  9. Running2win

    Running2win Well-Known Member

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    Yes Doug true, but if you read carefully the 4th beast is not named. We just assume it is Rome. What is this is wrong? Even Daniel 8 only focuses on the Greek empire, 4 horns then the little horn. No where is Rome named or focused on.

    We all agree there is a 10 nation empire when Jesus comes back and He destroys it. The focus of the Bible is that last kingdom and the person who rules over it.

    So what does God say about it? I use to think it was Rome until I saw this. God plainly gives us the makeup of the last empire, if we know the original words. The key is Daniel 2:40-43. The word "mixed" names it. Notice the word in the original, and the meaning.

    So God is telling us that the last kingdom will be Arab in Nature, it will be divided (Sunni and Shia), they hate each other but will join in a confederation at the end times. We know they surround Israel, and have a religion (Islam), that hates Jews. This is the focus, the end times just before Jesus comes back. IMO, we cannot disregard this information.

    40“Then there will be a fourth kingdom as strong as iron; inasmuch as iron crushes and shatters all things, so, like iron that breaks in pieces, it will crush and break all these in pieces. 41“In that you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, it will be a divided kingdom; but it will have in it the toughness of iron, inasmuch as you saw the iron mixed with common clay. 42As the toes of the feet were partly of iron and partly of pottery, so some of the kingdom will be strong and part of it will be brittle. 43“And in that you saw the iron mixed with common clay, they will combine with one another in the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another,

    6151. arab
    Strong's Concordance
    arab: to mix
    Original Word: עֲרַב
    Part of Speech: Verb
    Transliteration: arab
    Phonetic Spelling: (ar-ab')
    Definition: to mix
    NAS Exhaustive Concordance
    Word Origin
    (Aramaic) corresponding to the root of ereb
    Definition
    to mix
    NASB Translation
    combine (2), mixed (2).


    Brown-Driver-Briggs
    [עֲרַב] verb mix (ᵑ7 (often); Syriac (rare); see Biblical Hebrew I. ערב); —
    Pa`el Passive participle מְעָרַב mixed with (ב) Daniel 2:41,43.

    Hithpa. Participle id.: מִתְעָרַב Daniel 2:43 (עִם), plural רֲבִין- Daniel 2:43 (ב).


    Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
    mingle self, mix
    (Aramaic) corresponding to arab; to commingle -- mingle (self), mix.

    see HEBREW arab
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 12, 2020
  10. Running2win

    Running2win Well-Known Member

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    Wow! I did not type in that bless and do not curse! That is weird!:scratch: I can't edit it can I?
     
  11. tampasteve

    tampasteve ✞Steadfast Lutheran, Messianic leaning ✡ Staff Member Administrator CF Senior Ambassador Angels Team Supporter

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    I fixed it for you. I changed it to "Shia", which is the same thing as you were trying to write. The filter thought you wanted another word for poo.
     
  12. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    There is a default feature at this site, that when it detects what it thinks is inppropriate word which in your post - was S H I T E
    it looked at that word as trunticated to just the first four letters.

    Try going back and editing your post to say shia instead.
     
  13. Running2win

    Running2win Well-Known Member

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    Thanks! That was weird. :)
     
  14. Running2win

    Running2win Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Doug. Yeah, tampasteve fixed it. :)
     
  15. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I still see that you attempted to interpret the visions based on world history or newspaper eschatology: "sovereign monarchy," "empire lost its capacity for imperialistic expansion", "imperialistic conquering, domination and colonizing", "political language", "commonwealth of nations", "national symbol of the Soviet", "iron curtain", "European COmmon Market Bloc", "four wings = four leaders expanded to 27 countries", "Federations did not do this but kept to their region," "Islam" "10 federations" etc. etc.

    It is typical of "historical Christian scholars" to interpret visions with literal events with physical empires, countries, or whatever the news says. It is called speculation because this is not what God talked about. We find God's interpretation from HIS WORD. Not World history. Biblical history! :)

    Stay tuned!
     
  16. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

    This is a reference to the spiritual kingdom that Christ set up at His first coming.

    Are the "days of these kings" in which He set up His kingdom, literal days and kings?
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2020
  17. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    The Arabs don't have the military power to enforce their will on the rest of the world. Nor any manufacturing capability.

    The person who becomes the Antichrist has to be friendly toward Israel and a Jew. The muslim scenario is full of flaws. The Mahdi is something Islam came up with. It doesn't mean it has any sort of biblical validity.
     
  18. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

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    We see 5 parts of the Great Image in Dan. 2 while in Dan. 7 there are 4 beasts.

    Also Daniel says that the 4 beasts shall come, while he was actually standing in Babylon. (Dan.7 : 17)

    Then we see that the 4th beasts treads down the others. (Dan.7: 7)

    Finally the first 3 beasts have their dominion taken away but they continue for a while. (Dan. 7: 12)

    All points to 4 contemporary great powers.
     
  19. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

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    Thank you Richard for your research. Now you do highlight the fact that the 3 countries came together (Belgium, Netherlands and Luxembourg) as a group called Benelux. I think that is sufficient to show it was part of the 4 Heads.

    The following is from Wikipedia -

    The Benelux Union (Dutch: Benelux Unie;[4] French: Union Benelux;[5] Luxembourgish: Benelux-Unioun),[6] also known as simply Benelux, is a politico-economic union and formal international intergovernmental cooperation of three neighbouring states in western Europe: Belgium, the Netherlands, and Luxembourg.[7] The name Benelux is a portmanteau formed from joining the first few letters of each country's name – Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg – and was first used to name the customs agreement that initiated the union (signed in 1944).[8] It is now used more generally to refer to the geographic, economic, and cultural grouping of the three countries.

    Cooperation among the governments of Belgium, the Netherlands, and Luxembourg has been a firmly established practice since the introduction of a customs union in 1944 which became operative in 1948 as the Benelux Customs Union. (end of quote)

    Now a leader of a nation is often referred to as a `head.` So too those who run organisations. It refers to leaders.
     
  20. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

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    No I did not interpret God`s word by newspapers. However newspapers, T.V. etc do confirm what is written in God`s word - wars, earthquakes, nations against nations, (ethnic groups) pestilences, (viruses) etc etc.


    You can see that I did my `homework` but can you do the same with your questions?

    And note I did use scriptures and not newspapers. Look to see you do the same.
     
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