My Genesis 1 Bottleneck Event Challenge

[juvenissun]

Different how? How would different genetic behavior then produce the results we see now.

There are lots of ways to change DNA to shorten lifespans. Other than eliminating all the mildly deleterious variants, no known way of lengthening them.

Is that an implication to what happened to human after the Noah's Flood?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Hello SZ.

The foundation of science itself is a belief in the validity of the observable evidence. If the observable evidence does not in the end, reveal the initial causation of these observable events. Then the foundation of this scientific endeavor is in effect also a mythical enterprise.

We have two sides in this debate, both sides have some evidence, but both sides lack the hard observational evidence that is necessary. One has faith and the other has hypothesis, which are very similar expressions.

Would I teach children creationism?

Would I teach children scientific hypothesis?

There is a big difference. The scientific method has a huge history of success and your very life depends upon it every day. What method do you use? I can guarantee that you have nowhere near the history of success.

Your side has no reliable evidence. The side that I support has mountains of evidence.

Your last questions are poorly formed. Would you teach children a myth? Or would you teach children the scientific method?

 

[Subduction Zone]

How about presenting both sides and allowing everyone the right to choose for themselves which is correct? Or, is indoctrination the preferred system as long as it is the one that you agree with?

Because there is only "one side". There is no scientific evidence for your beliefs. And if they teach your myth they will have to teach the Norse myths, the countless American Indian myths, the Greek and Roman myths, and treat them all with the same respect.

 

[sfs]

Is that an implication to what happened to human after the Noah's Flood?

No. I'm talking about real changes to human genetics. Noah's Flood is a story about something that didn't happen.

 

[tevans9129]

There is no scientific evidence for your beliefs

Where is the "scientific evidence" of how space, matter, energy, time and natural laws came into existence? Can you provide empirical evidence for that or is it just a "myth" like, they just were?

 

[sfs]

Where is the "scientific evidence" of how space, matter, energy, time and natural laws came into existence?

What does this have to do with evolution or genetic bottlenecks?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Where is the "scientific evidence" of how space, matter, energy, time and natural laws came into existence? Can you provide empirical evidence for that or is it just a "myth" like, they just were?

We went over this and that belongs in another thread.

Try to stick to the subject of individual threads.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

How about presenting both sides and allowing everyone the right to choose for themselves which is correct? Or, is indoctrination the preferred system as long as it is the one that you agree with?

....Both sides?? Both sides of what? Science only has one evidenced theory in regards to the variety of life. What other theory are you speaking of, and when did it come about?

Hello SZ.

The foundation of science itself is a belief in the validity of the observable evidence. If the observable evidence does not in the end, reveal the initial causation of these observable events. Then the foundation of this scientific endeavor is in effect also a mythical enterprise.

We have two sides in this debate, both sides have some evidence, but both sides lack the hard observational evidence that is necessary. One has faith and the other has hypothesis, which are very similar expressions.

Would I teach children creationism?

Would I teach children scientific hypothesis?

There's a gross misunderstanding here - Science has to account for all of the available evidence. That's to say, if there's evidence that goes against the theory, it has to be accounted for one way or another, or the theory has to be discarded. Evidence will never prove a theory right, it can only ever prove a theory wrong. This is how we know Creationism is Wrong.

Creationism doesn't have any unique evidence. In fact, Creationism is so unsubstantiated, Creationists think tanks generally only try to poke holes in the evidence we have for Evolution, and still fail. Creationists don't do any research to speak of and don't have any novel predictive framework for anything. This is why there is actually only one evidenced theory in Science for the diversity of life on this planet.

 

[USincognito]

How about presenting both sides and allowing everyone the right to choose for themselves which is correct? Or, is indoctrination the preferred system as long as it is the one that you agree with?

Should we present flat earth in geography class? Anti-vax in health class? Holocaust and moon landing denial in history class?

 

[USincognito]

I voted no because we would find a bottleneck event in Gen. 6-9, not in Gen. 1.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I voted no because we would find a bottleneck event in Gen. 6-9, not in Gen. 1.

Correct, I applied the wrong term. One would expect a Founder's Effect with the Gen. 1 myth. Though the results are identical to a population bottleneck.

 

[juvenissun]

No. I'm talking about real changes to human genetics. Noah's Flood is a story about something that didn't happen.

I was talking about real changes too. Noah's Flood is simply a name that represents the ultimate cause of all the changes. Human DNA has been changes sequentially (due to some processes) so that the longevity continue to decrease until the change was stabilized at Abraham's time.

Could that be true? Since you said that there are many ways it could happen.

 

[AV1611VET]

Correct, I applied the wrong term.

Kinda like saying, "Filler up with Hydrogen!" in March 1936, when they should have said "Helium"?

Albeit the results weren't identical:

 

[Subduction Zone]

Kinda like saying, "Filler up with Hydrogen!" in March 1936, when they should have said "Helium"?

Albeit the results weren't identical:

Nope, not even close. But thanks for admitting that you are wrong.

 

[sfs]

I was talking about real changes too. Noah's Flood is simply a name that represents the ultimate cause of all the changes. Human DNA has been changes sequentially (due to some processes) so that the longevity continue to decrease until the change was stabilized at Abraham's time.

Could that be true? Since you said that there are many ways it could happen.

There are many things that can go wrong with human bodies. The more of them you have, the shorter you'll live. There is no reason at all to think the overall level of bad stuff in our DNA has increased over time.

 

[AV1611VET]

Nope, not even close.

Hydrogen and Helium are synonyms to you!?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Hydrogen and Helium are synonyms to you!?

Nope, but as I said, thank you for admitting that you are wrong.

 

[USincognito]

Nope, not even close. But thanks for admitting that you are wrong.

I think a glib, obsession with the death and suffering of others is a poor reflection on a Christ centered life, don't you.

 

[AV1611VET]

I think a glib, obsession with the death and suffering of others is a poor reflection on a Christ centered life, don't you.

Not everyone dies.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I think a glib, obsession with the death and suffering of others is a poor reflection on a Christ centered life, don't you.

Some people appear to be Christians because it gives them an excuse to tell others what they should do, even though they can't support that claim from Jesus's teachings. He was more interested in people improving themselves than having them try to force others to "improve".