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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
My ExDeo Challenge
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Without referring back to the bible to support it's own validity (to avoid circular reasoning), show us how the Jesus stories are any less absurd than Santa Claus stories.
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bhsmte
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Some people can be convinced to be martyrs for a whole host of reasons. The people who participate in cult mass suicides are martyrs, those who flew the plane's into buildings were martyrs. The fact that someone is psychologically capable of being brain washed to be a martyr, lends no credibility to what they believe in.
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EternalDragon
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There are historical eyewitness accounts of Jesus and what he did just like the historical figures of Plato, William Shakespeare, Julius Caesar, Charlemagne, Cleopatra, Claudius, Galen, Nero, Marco Polo, etc. (I could make a long list).
Can you support that those people are not made up without referring back to historical accounts? Or do you dismiss any history before we had photographs and film?
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bhsmte
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There are some historians who reject Jesus existed, but they are the minority. Most agree he was a real person and walked the earth. When it comes to how accurate the words are attributed to him in the NT, there is serious debate as to how much of it is truly historical and how much is made up.
When it comes to miracles and the supernatural, historians don't touch this topic, because it is impossible to verify the same and that is something one has to take on faith.
Lastly, eye witness accounts of Jesus are also very very dicey, considering the gospels were written decades after Jesus lived.
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From what I understand, there are no eyewitness accounts of Jesus.
From what I've read, according to biblical scholars, everything in the bible written about Jesus was written by people who lived after Jesus died.
Could you please direct me to what reputable biblical scholars would consider to be an eyewitness account? Thanks in advance.
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EternalDragon
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Of course the books in the NT were written after Jesus died. That is when he started to tell people about God and teach from the bible. Just prior to his death. Those books were written by people that witnessed those events.
Everything from history before we had cameras and film were from eyewitness oral or written accounts. So if you want to be consistent in your reasoning, you would have to reject all of that.
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EternalDragon
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I'm really not the one claiming they are. They stand on their own. The same as any other historical account.
If you do not agree with what they claim and say then please provide concrete evidence that it was not written by eyewitness authors.
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bhsmte
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You didn't claim the gospels were written by authors who were eyewitnesses to Jesus and his teachings? Please see your quote below from a previous post:
"Of course the books in the NT were written after Jesus died. That is when he started to tell people about God and teach from the bible. Just prior to his death. Those books were written by people that witnessed those events."
Nothing stands on it's own, with evidence to verify the same. In your world, anyone could write anything, claim it was divinely inspired and it could stand on it's own. So I guess other holy books that were written stand on their own as well, correct?
I am not going to do your research for you, google; "when were the gospels written and by whom" and you will be exposed to a bevy of information from historians and biblical scholars who have studied this topic. As a general consensus, this is the overall view:
-Gospel of Mark was written about 40 years after Jesus died
-Gospel of Matthew about 50 years after Jesus died
-Gospel of Luke, about 60 years after Jesus died
-Gospel of John about 70-80 years after Jesus died
-Also, the authors of these gospels are anonymous, no one knows who actually wrote them
With this being the majority opinion of historians and scholars (most of which are christians), it is quite difficult to claim they were eye witnesses to what they wrote and only a small faction of conservative evangelical scholars ever make this claim and they are a small minority.
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I knew something like this was coming, folks. 
I don't need a Pandora's box of examples.
For the record:
"Jesus stories" come with martyrs; Santa Claus stories do not.
Jesus was compared to Santa Claus; and I answer accordingly.
I don't need a Pandora's box of examples.
For the record:
"Jesus stories" come with martyrs; Santa Claus stories do not.
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bhsmte
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I knew something like this was coming, folks.
Jesus was compared to Santa Claus; and I answer accordingly.
I don't need a Pandora's box of examples.
For the record:
"Jesus stories" come with martyrs; Santa Claus stories do not.
Again, willing martyrs, lends no credibility to any story or belief.
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Santa Claus stories don't contain martyrs because Santa, in His Infinite Wisdom, didn't want to frighten children. But there are martyrs to Santa.I knew something like this was coming, folks.
Jesus was compared to Santa Claus; and I answer accordingly.
I don't need a Pandora's box of examples.
For the record:
"Jesus stories" come with martyrs; Santa Claus stories do not.
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