My ExDeo Challenge

[mzungu]

You mean agnostic. Technically everyone is agnostic. To be a true atheist, you would have to conclusively prove there is no God.

To be a true Theist, you would have to conclusively prove there is a God.

 

[CabVet]

You can believe anything you want to. It doesn't mean it is true.

 

[EternalDragon]

To be a true Theist, you would have to conclusively prove there is a God.

Correct. Which technically makes everyone agnostic.

 

[Davian]

I really get a good idea at where the logic/thinking problems come from by reading peoples posts here.

And your own posts. Did you not ask me if I believed in UFOs?

You can believe anything you want to. It doesn't mean it is true.

Speaking of your own beliefs, obviously.

How do you determine that "outside" the universe is non-existence?

The "universe" is the set of all things. If your deity ain't in there, it must be nowhere.

Correct. Which technically makes everyone agnostic.

I prefer ignostic, myself. YMMV.

 

[Delphiki]

Atheism is based on belief, not proof. To be an atheist, all that is necessary is that you believe that there is no God. Similarly, theists are those that believe that there is a God (again, no conclusive proof necessary).

Actually, it's not even that strict. All that's required is that you don't believe there is a God. There is a slight difference, since believing there are none is a positive belief. Someone who isn't even aware of the concept of deities or religions, for example, would still be atheist because they don't believe by default and at the same time not hold a belief that God doesn't exist.

 

[Delphiki]

How do you determine that "outside" the universe is non-existence?

Because the universe, by definition, is everything that exists.

 

[Split Rock]

Because the universe, by definition, is everything that exists.

Hmmm... if that is true, what about theories concerning multiple universes?

 

[Delphiki]

Hmmm... if that is true, what about theories concerning multiple universes?

You mean the infinite number of potential, hypothetical universes that only exist as a matter of speculation? I guess we won't know until we can prove those either.

Edit: But really, if we've ever proven those to exist, they would just be considered part of the universe as well.... by definition. Kind of like how the "New World" isn't actually a new world, but just another group of continents.

 

[EternalDragon]

You mean the infinite number of potential, hypothetical universes that only exist as a matter of speculation? I guess we won't know until we can prove those either.

Edit: But really, if we've ever proven those to exist, they would just be considered part of the universe as well.... by definition. Kind of like how the "New World" isn't actually a new world, but just another group of continents.

So when Jesus returns in glory he will just be automatically included as existing then? Cool.

 

[Loudmouth]

Because the universe, by definition, is everything that exists.

Then the universe has truly grown over the last 150 years. At one time the Universe was just the Milky Way. Later on, we found that there were a few other galaxies out there, and more recently we discovered that there are billions of galaxies out there.

 

[Loudmouth]

So when Jesus returns in glory he will just be automatically included as existing then? Cool.

In the same way that Santa Claus will be included as existing when he goes down my chimney on Christmas morning.

 

[KWCrazy]

Because the universe, by definition, is everything that exists.

The PHYSICAL universe universe is considered the totality of everything that exists. It was constructed as a temporary dwelling place for man during his natural lifetime.

 

[EternalDragon]

In the same way that Santa Claus will be included as existing when he goes down my chimney on Christmas morning.

Is that the way you look at all historical figures? Because I would expect you to be consistent......or perhaps you do concede that Jesus was a real person? But then it's silly if you compare Jesus with Santa Claus.

 

[lasthero]

Is that the way you look at all historical figures? Because I would expect you to be consistent......or perhaps you do concede that Jesus was a real person? But then it's silly if you compare Jesus with Santa Claus.

Santa Claus was a real person - or, at least, what we understand as Santa Claus was based on a real person, a Saint with a penchant for gift-giving. Over time, tales of him grew and spread and changed, until we get the modern version of him - which, as I recall, is due in large part to Coca-Cola, who originally created the image of him being fat with a white beard and a red coat.

So, yeah, Santa Claus was, in a sense, a real person. In the same way, you can concede that Jesus was a real person. In the supernatural aspects that are in question.

 

[EternalDragon]

Santa Claus was a real person - or, at least, what we understand as Santa Claus was based on a real person, a Saint with a penchant for gift-giving. Over time, tales of him grew and spread and changed, until we get the modern version of him - which, as I recall, is due in large part to Coca-Cola, who originally created the image of him being fat with a white beard and a red coat.

So, yeah, Santa Claus was, in a sense, a real person. In the same way, you can concede that Jesus was a real person. In the supernatural aspects that are in question.

I am well aware of the history of Christmas. Making a comparison with Jesus and everything in the Bible is just a bit of a stretch.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Santa Claus was a real person - or, at least, what we understand as Santa Claus was based on a real person, a Saint with a penchant for gift-giving. Over time, tales of him grew and spread and changed, until we get the modern version of him - which, as I recall, is due in large part to Coca-Cola, who originally created the image of him being fat with a white beard and a red coat.

So, yeah, Santa Claus was, in a sense, a real person. In the same way, you can concede that Jesus was a real person. In the supernatural aspects that are in question.

The supernatural aspects are not in question except to unbelievers. There are outside sources that claim He practiced Magic. It is true as well that after Christ was killed his disciples ran afraid of death for themselves. Yet, after the Holy Spirit came upon them they went out and preached regardless of the threat of death.

 

[Volokh]

For those of you who ask for evidence of creatio ex nihilo, I offer this challenge:

Name one or two things that would would be different in the evidence department if the earth would have been created exDeo, rather than ex nihilo.

Please stay within the confines of Genesis 1.

Thank you.

no

 

[AV1611VET]

no

then name three

 

[Volokh]

then name three

no

 

[AV1611VET]

no

is challenge too hard for Volokh?