My Apple Challenge

[AV1611VET]

The bottom line, science does not take away our life in Jesus Christ, which is the bottom line and which is all that matters. Period!!

Then let me reiterate what I said to Tanzanos:

You just put your faith in Jesus Christ, and I promise you, you'll never see an atheist in eternity --

 

[sandwiches]

There is no valid refutation in this thread (or any thread) of my Apple Challenge, that I know of.

Well, your point is there is no evidence of your apple being created ex nihilo. We agree. However, we also agree that we wouldn't expect most people to believe us without evidence.

I find it ... interesting ... that a thread that actually agrees with those who say there is no evidence for Creationism is challenged by those who ask for, demand, or outright claim there is no evidence for Creationism.

In short, it's on your side -- but you guys want to argue it.

LOL

Refute it -- or agree with it -- I don't really care.

Either way, it is effective in making my point.

Just because it agrees, doesn't mean it's correct. If someone makes a post saying "Evolution is true because when my dog barks, I'm reminded of my dad." Evolution is true, but not for the reason listed. There is no independently verifiable evidence for Creationism, as you mentioned. Therefore, there is no reason to believe it. Your argument, however, pretty much boils down to "There is no evidence that God created the universe but it's true because the Bible says so."

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

And that will keep an atheist an atheist?

The same thing that will keep a person a non-astrologer or a non-elvis is aliver.

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

I wonder what Mr Gardner would consider someone who refuses to filter out incoming data that the earth is 4.57 billion years, as well as incoming written testimony that the earth is 6014 years?

Would he consider that to be fear-driven confirmation bias? confusion? what?

That's just it AV, we are also able to use our reasoning brain, and evaluate information, and then make judgements based on relevant information. Confirmation bias occurs when one willingly checks their brain at the door (usually churches and creationist seminars).

 

[LightSeaker]

Then let me reiterate what I said to Tanzanos:

I think it is wrong headed to take earthly beliefs and images into the experience of the infinite as if they are the same thing. It's even more wrong headed to make promises for God when one is not God.

.

 

[JustMeSee]

OP:You didn't create the apple, because you are not G-d.

 

[AV1611VET]

OP:You didn't create the apple, because you are not G-d.

Thank you -- let's leave God and the Bible out of this thread -- okay?

Just assume I created it because you asked me too -- or whatever.

 

[tanzanos]

..........

 

[AV1611VET]

AV, if we leave God out of this then you cannot use your challenge to prove God.

Fine with me -- I don't intend to.

After all is this not the reason for your challenge; to prove God did it?

No -- it is to show that you guys cannot come up with a satisfactory answer; therefore nullifying any demand from you guys for evidence of creation.

OK if we leave God out of this then we are talking hard scientific reasoning, and science demands empirical proof.

Fair enough.

I gave you the indications that would be evident from "creatio ex nihilo" and yet you disregarded it totally.

If I remember right, you gave me creatio ex materia, not creatio ex nihilo as you assume energy is already in existence?

For the last time I beg you to consider the following:

When energy transforms into mass there is a release of energy in the form of radiation.

Where did the energy come from in the first place?

Creatio ex nihilo says there wasn't any to work with.

In other words, for my Apple Challenge to work, I would have to violate the Conservation Laws and increase the amount of mass/energy in the universe by the amount of mass/energy of the apple.

This radiation will in time degrade to lesser frequencies.

No -- not.

We're not creating an apple from existing energy, we're making an apple straight from nothing and bypassing the conversion of energy to mass.

It's like creating an ice cube ex nihilo -- it's already frozen.

I didn't create the water first, then freeze it; I created the ice cube fully-frozen.

I'm sure Frumious would say then that the ice cube is Omphalos, as it should show a history of being frozen, but in fact, it came into existence as a mature ice cube.

So if you create an apple; we will be able to measure the remnants of the radiation released.

Nope.

By the way AV if you say you did not use energy because it is "ex nihilo" then I can assure you that without energy Time is not possible! Without time you would not exist and without you the apple could not be created!

I wouldn't know -- some think God didn't create time until the 4th day -- but I disagree with that.

Conclusion you need energy before you can play God!

Let's leave God out of this, k?

 

[BananaSlug]

Top Three Evidences to Support a young Earth:
1. All geologic evidence would be only 6,000 years old or less.
2. All cosmological phenomena would only be 6,000 light years away.
3. There would be no fossil record older than 6,000 years.

The OP is defeated.

 

[AV1611VET]

Top Three Evidences to Support a young Earth:

A young earth can take a hike -- earth ≠ apple in this thread.

The OP stands as written.

 

[tanzanos]

.........

 

[AV1611VET]

AV I am beginning to suspect that you are in the process of creating a new religion based on apples!

Of cores!

 

[BananaSlug]

A young earth can take a hike -- earth ≠ apple in this thread.

The OP stands as written.

Top Three Evidences for creatio ex nihilo as based from the Bible.

 

[JustMeSee]

I create an apple ex nihilo into the palm of your hand.

What evidence would you use to convince your friend I did this?

I would tell him that Alfred E. Neuman created this apple out of nothing. It would be up to her to believe me or not.

 

[AV1611VET]

I would tell him that Alfred E. Neuman created this apple out of nothing. It would be up to her to believe me or not.

???

 

[JustMeSee]

???

Intersex. Were they in The Bible too?

 

[AV1611VET]

Intersex. Were they in The Bible too?

What say we leave the Bible out of this thread?

 

[JustMeSee]

I would tell him that Alfred E. Neuman created this apple out of nothing. It would be up to him to believe me or not.

Is that better?

There would be no evidence other than the apple. He would have to trust me that it was created from nothing.

 

[AV1611VET]

Is that better?

There would be no evidence other than the apple. He would have to trust me that it was created from nothing.

Thank you -- I believe that to be the best answer.