My Apple Challenge

[AV1611VET]

The apple looks like any other apple. Why? Because you say so.

The apple looks different from other apples. Why? Because you say so!

LOL -- solid aurum -- doomed if I do, doomed if I don't!

 

[Split Rock]

LOL -- solid aurum -- doomed if I do, doomed if I don't!

So now it doesn't even matter what it looks like? And this is supposed to have real world applications to ... what? Are you god? Did you make this apple, which may or may not squirt lemon juice or whatever, the way god made anything.. or would make an apple if he did?

 

[AV1611VET]

So now it doesn't even matter what it looks like? And this is supposed to have real world applications to ... what? Are you god? Did you make this apple, which may or may not squirt lemon juice or whatever, the way god made anything.. or would make an apple if he did?

I've been down this road in this thread before -- haven't I?

What does this thread have to do with God?

What does this thread have to do with the Bible?

This is a science thread.

I'm looking for scientific answers -- not Biblical ones.

 

[Freodin]

LOL -- solid aurum -- doomed if I do, doomed if I don't!

You would see it that way, wouldn´t you.

But the problem that dooms you is not what you claim about that apple... it is the fact THAT you claim (and nothing else) about that apple.

I know that you are following the prime method of religious apologetics: find excuses why you have nothing to show - but if you really believe in that nonsense, you´d have to shut up immediately.

Creatio-ex-nililo does not leave evidence. Why? Not because we have seen it, tested it and found that it doesn´t... no, because you say so. You also have not seen it, tested it and found that result... it is solely based on your faith. So you say.

Fine. Continue to say so. But why would you continue to say so to people you have just told that there is no evidence to believe you? Are you that bored that you just talk to have something to do?

 

[AV1611VET]

You would see it that way, wouldn´t you.

Yes, I would.

But the problem that dooms you is not what you claim about that apple... it is the fact THAT you claim (and nothing else) about that apple.

You guys are the ones demanding claims on that apple.

I'm just trying to placate you, so we can get on with this thread.

If you think the apple is omphalos, fine; if you think it is YEC, fine; if you think it is OEC, fine -- please just get on with it and let's cut the yak.

Creatio-ex-nililo does not leave evidence. Why? Not because we have seen it, tested it and found that it doesn´t... no, because you say so. You also have not seen it, tested it and found that result... it is solely based on your faith. So you say.

Fine. Continue to say so. But why would you continue to say so to people you have just told that there is no evidence to believe you? Are you that bored that you just talk to have something to do?

I'm not the one saying so here, Freodin.

This thread is to get you guys to admit there is no evidence.

Let's leave me out of this, k?

As I said:

My OP says nothing about lack of evidence.

In fact, it is asking you what evidence you would use.

I did my part in the OP ... it's all up to you now.

 

[Freodin]

Yes, I would.

You guys are the ones demanding claims on that apple.

I'm just trying to placate you, so we can get on with this thread.

If you think the apple is omphalos, fine; if you think it is YEC, fine; if you think it is OEC, fine -- please just get on with it and let's cut the yak.

I'm not the one saying so here, Freodin.

This thread is to get you guys to admit there is no evidence.

Let's leave me out of this, k?

How in the Great Invisible Pink Unicorn´s Name would you ever know that there is no evidence when you have nothing to look at to see if there is or isn´t evidence?

Can´t you understand that? You keep talking about "the apple". Omphalos, YEC, OEC, Creatio-ex-nihilo, purple, from Japan, lemon-juice-dripping..... but THERE IS NO APPLE!

All that there is is your talk about an apple. And talk is cheap, as they say.

 

[AV1611VET]

... but THERE IS NO APPLE!

All that there is is your talk about an apple. And talk is cheap, as they say.

Like I said, if it's an apple that bothers you then make it a truck.

I'm easy --

 

[Freodin]

Like I said, if it's an apple that bothers you then make it a truck.

I'm easy --

"Easy" wasn´t the term I had in mind.

But there is no truck either. No apple, no truck, no nothing but talk.

Talk is cheap. Talk does not have to be tested. Talk can paint wonderful word-pictures of anything and everything... without having to be anything.

 

[AV1611VET]

"Easy" wasn´t the term I had in mind.

But there is no truck either. No apple, no truck, no nothing but talk.

Talk is cheap. Talk does not have to be tested. Talk can paint wonderful word-pictures of anything and everything... without having to be anything.

Well while you're [the one] engaging in most of this 'cheap' activity, would you be so kind as to answer the OP as it was written?

Or are you feeling low-budgeted and artistic today?

 

[Freodin]

Well while you're [the one] engaging in most of this 'cheap' activity, would you be so kind as to answer the OP as it was written?

Or are you feeling low-budgeted and artistic today?

If I am to answer the OP "as is written"... does that mean you also have to accept my answer "as is written"?

Let´s see... what was it that "is written"?

"I create an apple ex nihilo into the palm of your hand.

What evidence would you use to convince your friend I did this?"

Answer: I use the evidence that ex-nihilo-creation leaves on objects and present that to my friend.

 

[sandwiches]

If I am to answer the OP "as is written"... does that mean you also have to accept my answer "as is written"?

Let´s see... what was it that "is written"?

"I create an apple ex nihilo into the palm of your hand.

What evidence would you use to convince your friend I did this?"

Answer: I use the evidence that ex-nihilo-creation leaves on objects and present that to my friend.

Good answer and it works no matter what the evidence is.

 

[Split Rock]

I've been down this road in this thread before -- haven't I?
What does this thread have to do with God?

What does this thread have to do with the Bible?

This is a science thread.

I'm looking for scientific answers -- not Biblical ones

You're looking for scientific answers? Really? I will quote you, then: "Science Can Take A Hike." Done. That was easy...

 

[Split Rock]

This thread is to get you guys to admit there is no evidence.

You set this up a scenario where there is no evidence, just so you can get us to admit there is no evidence? That is the purpose of this thread? Wow. What a waste of bandwith.....

/thread.

 

[Chris81]

I create an apple ex nihilo into the palm of your hand.

What evidence would you use to convince your friend I did this?

Why should I try to convince my friend that you created the apple? I would rather tell my friend that I created the apple ex nihilo and that I am worthy of praise. Unless you have some other magic powers that that you can attack me with, I would not fear your retaliation. If you claimed that you were the one that created the apple I would just claim that are a deceiver and I would ask you to provide some form of evidence that you had created the apple I gave to my friend.

 

[AV1611VET]

Why should I try to convince my friend that you created the apple? I would rather tell my friend that I created the apple ex nihilo and that I am worthy of praise. Unless you have some other magic powers that that you can attack me with, I would not fear your retaliation. If you claimed that you were the one that created the apple I would just claim that are a deceiver and I would ask you to provide some form of evidence that you had created the apple I gave to my friend.

Now that you've incurred the admiration of my antagonists, would you like to tickle me pink by addressing the OP as it was written?

 

[Chris81]

Now that you've incurred the admiration of my antagonists, would you like to tickle me pink by addressing the OP as it was written?

What motivation do I have to convince my friend that you created the apple. If you are so concerned that my friend know that you can create an apple out of nothing why don't you just repeat the trick for my friend?

 

[Chris81]

Additionally how would I know that you really did create the apple ex nihilo? Maybe you made the apple appear in my palm by the slight of hand. Given that I can find an apple in any supermarket, my first conclusion would be that you merely bought an apple and through some magic trick made the apple appear in my hand. It would be more convincing if you make something completely out this world appear in my hand. Then I would be a lot more convinced that you genuinely created something out of thin air.

 

[AV1611VET]

Hi, Chris -- nice to meet you --

Additionally how would I know that you really did create the apple ex nihilo?

Um ... Chris?

Here's the first line of my OP:

I create an apple ex nihilo into the palm of your hand.

Wondering if I did it or not is not an option.

This is a challenge -- a hypothetical.

For the sake of multiple threads, we are to assume that I'm being honest here.

It's not a trick question.

 

[Chris81]

In that case, it would depend on what level of evidence my friend would need to be convinced that you actually did create the apple in my hand.

It could be that my friend trust everything I say no matter how unbelievable. In that case by merely relaying my story to him he would believe that you did create the apple out of nothing.

Otherwise my friend may only be convinced if he could actually see the event. In that case I would show him a video of you creating the apple.

Additionally he may only be convinced if there were some form of scientific data of some sort that would indicate that you had created the apple rather than it being a magic trick. I would have to have a variety of scientific instruments that were taking a number of measurements and reading at the time of the event of you creating the apple. Then I would have to process the data in a fashion that would satisfy my friend's need for evidence.

Last there might be no amount of evidence that I could provide that would convince my friend that you actually did create the apple in my hand. I would have to concede that I could not convince my friend no matter what I did. I would have to hope that at some point in time he would be less stubborn and that I would have some other opportunity to try to convince my friend of the event.

 

[AV1611VET]

In that case, it would depend...

It could be that my friend...

Otherwise my friend...

Additionally he may...

Last there might...

You know your friend better than I do, Chris.

Are you asking me to guess for you?

Or is this your way of saying, "I don't know, but I'm too proud to admit it"?

I'm not trying to be mean here, but I'm beginning to think you're just trying to rile me up with nonsense.

You guys wonder why you don't understand anything; this thread is a perfect example.

You guys either joke, ridicule or insult -- then wonder why you don't understand anything.

Oh, well -- you've accomplished what I think you came here to do, and that's make friends with my antagonists at my expense.

So have a nice day with your new friends, and I pray you can show them the Light in a way that I am unable to do.