My Apple Challenge

[BananaSlug]

You sound like you're speaking for your friend -- you already know it's ex nihilo.

So what what evidence would you present to your friend to convince him?

Is there a manuscript that explains how the apple was created ex nihilo? If there was, we could use it as a template on what to look for.

I'm sure everybody else knows where I'm going. Everyone knows what it is like when the creationists ignore the good parts of your post.

 

[tanzanos]

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[sandwiches]

You're skipping the OP completely.

You're going from holding an ex nihilo apple, to telling me that if your friend doesn't believe you...

I want to know what happens in-between.

What would you present to him as evidence?

I'd have no verifiable evidence to present my friend, from the sounds of it. Thus, I'd see how my friend is in the right in not believing me.

What evidence are you presenting him that he's rejecting?

He's not rejecting any evidence. He's rejecting my claim because of lack of evidence.

 

[AV1611VET]

Thus, I'd see how my friend is in the right in not believing me.

He may be justified in your eyes (and mine), but he would still be wrong.

What if he called you a liar? would you acquiesce?

 

[sandwiches]

He may be justified in your eyes (and mine), but he would still be wrong.

What if he called you a liar? would you acquiesce?

If you mean concede that there is no way for me to show that I am telling the truth, then yes. If you mean concede that I know I'm right, then no. So, I'd be correct in my assertion, but he'd be right in not believing me.

 

[Golden Yak]

You sound like you're speaking for your friend

I'm not. I'm speaking as someone trying to determine if there is anything about the apple that would convince someone it was created ex nihilo.

So what what evidence would you present to your friend to convince him?

As I said, there is no evidence that points exclusively to creation ex nihilo, other than possibly the age of the apple. If it's been created so it's age is indistinguishable from natural apples, then that would not be viable.

He may be justified in your eyes (and mine), but he would still be wrong.

By 'justified,' do you mean that you would find such a conclusion to be a rational one?

 

[ExistenceUnknown]

Hello Everyone!

This is my first post at CF so go easy on me.

As far as this apple scenario goes.... AV is defining the terms in this hypothetical so it can turn out any way he wants it.

For example:

If I define the number that is between 5 and 7 (which is normally 6) as 4, then I ask you what 3 + 3 is. You will be wrong every time you say 6.

AV's scenario states that. "AV creates an apple that leaves no evidence of creation in your hand. How would you convince your friend that he did this?"

The answer is you can't.

My question to AV is, how do you know that creation doesn't leave evidence behind?

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

Hello Everyone!

This is my first post at CF so go easy on me.

As far as this apple scenario goes.... AV is defining the terms in this hypothetical so it can turn out any way he wants it.

For example:

If I define the number that is between 5 and 7 (which is normally 6) as 4, then I ask you what 3 + 3 is. You will be wrong every time you say 6.

AV's scenario states that. "AV creates an apple that leaves no evidence of creation in your hand. How would you convince your friend that he did this?"

The answer is you can't.

My question to AV is, how do you know that creation doesn't leave evidence behind?

Welcome to CF.

You have discovered the convoluted logic which AV routinely employs to keep his cognitive dissonance reconciled with his faith.

He employs semantic, redefines terms to suit his arguments, and interprets the bible to suit his arguments.

He's actually a pretty smart guy in general, but he's also an evangelical fundie, so he is precluded from accepting some very basic reasonable scientific theories.

I wouldn't get to caught up with AV, he will indeed take you down the rabbit hole if you let him.

 

[ExistenceUnknown]

Welcome to CF.

You have discovered the convoluted logic which AV routinely employs to keep his cognitive dissonance reconciled with his faith.

He employs semantic, redefines terms to suit his arguments, and interprets the bible to suit his arguments.

He's actually a pretty smart guy in general, but he's also an evangelical fundie, so he is precluded from accepting some very basic reasonable scientific theories.

I wouldn't get to caught up with AV, he will indeed take you down the rabbit hole if you let him.

Yes, I am aware of AV's reputation. I have been reading on the forums for a few days now and he always seems to pop in.

That's fine though, I really enjoy listening to other people's position despite how odd I may find them. I have no doubt in AV's intelligence, I have a friend who is of similar intelligence to myself, we graduated with the same degree's, from the same school, and work in the same company. However he takes a leap of christian faith that I cannot comprehend.

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

Is your friend an American, raised in a "christian" home, and attended a church youth group while growing up?

 

[ExistenceUnknown]

Is your friend an American, raised in a "christian" home, and attended a church youth group while growing up?

Yes to all plus he was home-schooled. Hehe he actually laughs at me because I think the earth is "billlllliooonnnns and billllllllioooooons of years old". As i'm sure AV would laugh at me.

I have no problem with his beliefs though. To each his own.

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

Yes to all plus he was home-schooled. Hehe he actually laughs at me because I think the earth is "billlllliooonnnns and billllllllioooooons of years old". As i'm sure AV would laugh at me.

I have no problem with his beliefs though. To each his own.

Ah, the home schooling part. I intentionally left that one out because I was trying to avoid sounding pedantic.

I was simply trying to point out that he hold those particular religious beliefs because he happened to be born in the U.S. If he had been born in Pakistan, he would be a Muslim.

 

[AV1611VET]

Ah, the home schooling part. I intentionally left that one out because I was trying to avoid sounding pedantic.

I was simply trying to point out that he hold those particular religious beliefs because he happened to be born in the U.S. If he had been born in Pakistan, he would be a Muslim.

Guys, do I derail your threads?

 

[tanzanos]

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[AV1611VET]

Finally the APPLE challenge has been put to rest:

 

[tanzanos]

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[AV1611VET]

come on AV admit it was a funny video! tickle tickle now that's more like it

Yes -- that was funny -- I must admit!

 

[ExistenceUnknown]

Guys, do I derail your threads?

Apologies, I thought it was settled.

What else is there to say? I think we can all agree that within the limited constraints of your hypothetical, that it would be impossible to convince my friend that you created an apple ex nihilo.

 

[ExistenceUnknown]

douple post

 

[tanzanos]

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