My Alcohol Challenge

[Queller]

Can you get away with the order of events in Genesis 1?

Seeing as how that order of events is contradicted by Genesis 2, I don't see why not.

Can I get away with the order of events in John 2?

You mean the fact that the word used for the wine the guests drank first, oinos, is exactly the same word that is used for the wine that Jesus created later?

 

[AV1611VET]

That's because there is no reference in the Bible to non-alcoholic wine.

Why would there be?

Until fermentation was invented, the default position would have been non-alcoholic.

In other words, alcoholic wine would be the exception, rather than the rule.

I'm sure they didn't pick grapes, crush them, then let the juice spoil.

BTW, just because you claim some wine in the Bible is non-alcoholic does not make it so.

I'm not the only one that claims it though.

Remember what I've said many times here: "Google is your enemy"?

 

[Queller]

Milk was preserved by converting it to cheese.

And is therefore no longer milk, but cheese.

Let me guess, you ask your wife for a grilled milk sandwich, don't you?

 

[Queller]

Because drinking is a sin.

Not according to the King James version of the Bible.

Yes -- the story has another connotation:

John 2:11 This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.

It would be just as miraculous for Jesus to turn water into grape juice, so why would that be a problem?

 

[AV1611VET]

You mean the fact that the word used for the wine the guests drank first, oinos, is exactly the same word that is used for the wine that Jesus created later?

If "oinos" means alcoholic wine ... and only alcoholic wine ... then the document it was written on is garbage.

Find the document that God superintended, and I'll bet it was a different word.

Again though, I'm saying "If oinos means alcoholic wine" -- and that's a big "if".

 

[Queller]

Evidently others have decided as well.

Others may have decided that, but God did not.

 

[AV1611VET]

Others may have decided that, but God did not.

He checked with you first, did He?

 

[Queller]

Is smoking a sin?

No.

taking crystal meth?

No. (unless you are taking it from someone else without their permission, then yes)

murder?

Yes

stealing?

Yes.

 

[Queller]

I disagree.

Great, but that means you are also disagreeing with the King James Bible.

 

[Queller]

"Don't get drunk" means "drink moderately"?

Yes, that's exactly what it means.

I guess I'm a sinner then, aren't I?

Yes, you are. Just like all the rest of us.

 

[Queller]

Then use this one I posted: WINE IN THE BIBLE: A BIBLICAL STUDY ON THE USE OF ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES.

Why should I? They acknowledge that

There is no single passage which clearly defines yayin as unfermented grape juice.

Of course that doesn't stop them from claiming it anyway but hey, what are you going to do?

 

[Queller]

Why would there be?

According to you and the site you just linked to, the Bible is full of references to non-alcoholic wine.

Until fermentation was invented, the default position would have been non-alcoholic.

In other words, alcoholic wine would be the exception, rather than the rule.

SMDH

I'm sure they didn't pick grapes, crush them, then let the juice spoil.

No, if they drank grape juice, they would have to drink it as quickly as possible before it went bad.

I'm not the only one that claims it though.

Remember what I've said many times here: "Google is your enemy"?

You claim a lot of things that have no basis in reality. That's one of them.

 

[Queller]

If "oinos" means alcoholic wine ... and only alcoholic wine ... then the document it was written on is garbage.

Why?

Find the document that God superintended, and I'll bet it was a different word.

Holy cow! Did you just acknowledge that the King James version of the Bible isn't the original version of the Bible?

Again though, I'm saying "If oinos means alcoholic wine" -- and that's a big "if".

And I'm asking "why is it that the word used for the wine the guests drank first, oinos, is exactly the same word that is used for the wine that Jesus created later?"

 

[Strathos]

I also abstain from alcohol but not for religious reasons. And prohibition was a terrible time in history and it was proven that it didn't work.

 

[Queller]

He checked with you first, did He?

No, I can simply read His Word.

 

[AV1611VET]

Did you just acknowledge that the King James version of the Bible isn't the original version of the Bible?

I've only been doing that for nine years.

The King James Bible is the last in the line of God-superintended, God-preserved, earthly Translations.

And I'm asking "why is it that the word used for the wine the guests drank first, oinos, is exactly the same word that is used for the wine that Jesus created later?"

Because the Satanically-inspired Wrong's Concordance says it was?

 

[AV1611VET]

No, I can simply read His Word.

Then why do so many run to Strong's Concordance for guidance?

Why is it one needs two books to understand what God said?

 

[TLK Valentine]

So bring back Prohibition then.

Because it worked so well the first time...

 

[TLK Valentine]

Then why do so many run to Strong's Concordance for guidance?

Why is it one needs two books to understand what God said?

Listening to you, clearly one book isn't enough...

 

[AV1611VET]

Because it worked so well the first time...

Well they say you can't legislate morality, but if God can put the Ten Commandments on His books, then we can surely put Prohibition on ours.

In short, when the LORD returns, I'd like there to be some legislation on our books against certain sins.