My Alcohol Challenge

[AV1611VET]

Which is why you probably aren't the best person to judge whether or not this passage means alcoholic wine.

I can't, for the life of me, understand why some would smoke marijuana on their wedding day; but that doesn't mean I'm not qualified to judge whether or not Jesus turned the fig tree into a Cannabis sativa.

 

[crjmurray]

I can't, for the life of me, understand why some would smoke marijuana on their wedding day; but that doesn't mean I'm not qualified to judge whether or not Jesus turned the fig tree into a Cannabis sativa.

Yeah because that passage was up for debate.

 

[TLK Valentine]

I can't, for the life of me, understand why some would smoke marijuana on their wedding day; but that doesn't mean I'm not qualified to judge whether or not Jesus turned the fig tree into a Cannabis sativa.

Pretty obvious that he didn't -- he killed it.

Why that particular passage is in there is interesting.

 

[AV1611VET]

Pretty obvious that he didn't -- he killed it.

Why that particular passage is in there is interesting.

Just don't overlook the point I made.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Just don't overlook the point I made.

Fret not -- I get an email and text alert when -- I mean if -- you make a point.

The Jews were no strangers to being influenced by foreign customs.... they were occupied by Rome at the time, and the Romans did so love their (alcoholic) wine...

 

[Split Rock]

But with "wine" that's different ... right?

With "wine," you suddenly become a Bible literalist?

Actually, with "wine," you have shown you are not a Bible literalist as you often claim to be. You are very selective and arbitrary with your "literal" interpretation of scripture. That is why when you claim that the Bible tells us there were actual unicorns in the past, or that evolution is wrong, we take it with a grain of salt (as you like to say).

 

[HitchSlap]

Actually, with "wine," you have shown you are not a Bible literalist as you often claim to be. You are very selective and arbitrary with your "literal" interpretation of scripture. That is why when you claim that the Bible tells us there were actual unicorns in the past, or that evolution is wrong, we take it with a grain of salt (as you like to say).

Good point. Just shows to go ya', even "literalists" twist the words to fit their view of the god.

 

[Rhamiel]

you can be a literalist and say that the word for wine was also sometimes used for grape juice

but there are things that you have to prove
that the same word is used for both

another thing is that wine was used for Jewish ceremonies, like Passover
would they have been able to make grape juice in early spring?

 

[TLK Valentine]

you can be a literalist and say that the word for wine was also sometimes used for grape juice

but there are things that you have to prove
that the same word is used for both

another thing is that wine was used for Jewish ceremonies, like Passover
would they have been able to make grape juice in early spring?

There's still the roman influence to consider -- they made wine so strong it had to be cut with water in order to drink.

 

[Loudmouth]

Better yet, I could pack it in snow, place it underground, submerge it in water, or drink it right away.

How much snow was there where Jesus was for the wedding?

In your opinion, how did they preserve milk?

Milk didn't come into season but once a year. They had a fresh supply every morning. They also didn't describe milk in the Bible using a word for fermented milk.

When it said that characters in the Bible were eating cheese, did the authors really mean that they were drinking milk?

 

[Rhamiel]

There's still the roman influence to consider -- they made wine so strong it had to be cut with water in order to drink.

true
some people seem to think that ancient wine was weaker then modern wine....

that does not seem accurate
in fact, the strong wine that you mentioned seems to have been the norm around the world, the wine needed to be able to last without refrigeration, and to have enough alcohol to kill bacteria, of course ancient people did not really have a concept of bacteria, but basic trial and error showed which wines lasted longer and was better for the health

as for mixing water and wine, this is still done in the celebration of the Mass done by the Catholic Church
it is interesting to see how Roman and Medieval culture has influenced the Church in her practices and norms

 

[TLK Valentine]

true
some people seem to think that ancient wine was weaker then modern wine....

that does not seem accurate
in fact, the strong wine that you mentioned seems to have been the norm around the world, the wine needed to be able to last without refrigeration, and to have enough alcohol to kill bacteria, of course ancient people did not really have a concept of bacteria, but basic trial and error showed which wines lasted longer and was better for the health

as for mixing water and wine, this is still done in the celebration of the Mass done by the Catholic Church
it is interesting to see how Roman and Medieval culture has influenced the Church in her practices and norms

What's interesting -- far more interesting than AV's original challenge -- is why Jesus was called upon to perform a miracle... what was he, the caterer?

My favorite theory is that the wedding was for one of Jesus' relatives -- possibly one of his brothers/sisters... possibly Jesus' own wedding, albeit that's a bit of a stretch...

Also, Why does John list this miracle first -- for that matter, why is this miracle exclusive to John?

 

[AV1611VET]

Actually, with "wine," you have shown you are not a Bible literalist as you often claim to be.

I thought I wasn't a Bible literalist because I didn't buy into your "sun & moon standing still"?

Or your "unmovable earth"?

Or because I don't believe God has feathers?

Or a host of other verses I can't think of right now?

 

[AV1611VET]

There's still the roman influence to consider -- they made wine so strong it had to be cut with water in order to drink.

And Jesus did the same thing? He made Roman wine, did He?

 

[HitchSlap]

And Jesus did the same thing? He made Roman wine, did He?

When in Rome...

 

[AV1611VET]

How much snow was there where Jesus was for the wedding?

I give up -- how much?

Milk didn't come into season but once a year.

Hmmm.

In a land that "floweth with milk and honey," milk only comes into season but once a year?

They had a fresh supply every morning.

That point I won't argue.

I'm in agreement on that.

Except ... except ... how did they have a fresh supply every morning, when it only came into season but once a year?

They also didn't describe milk in the Bible using a word for fermented milk.

I thought the subject we're discussing is preservation, not fermentation?

 

[TLK Valentine]

And Jesus did the same thing? He made Roman wine, did He?

Actually, he made pure wine -- he miraculously transformed all the water, so there was none left to dilute the wine.

No wonder the wedding guests thought the host was bringing out the good stuff -- they were accustomed to drinking watered-down Roman wine...

Or do you find your grape juice is too strong unless you water it down?

 

[Loudmouth]

I give up -- how much?

None.

Hmmm.

In a land that "floweth with milk and honey," milk only comes into season but once a year?

You do understand where milk comes from, do you not?

Milk doesn't come into season once a year like grapes do.

I thought the subject we're discussing is preservation, not fermentation?

They are one in the same.

 

[pgp_protector]

Feel sorry for AV if he thinks any ammount of Alcohol is a sin, They must no eat out at all.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Feel sorry for AV if he thinks any ammount of Alcohol is a sin, They must no eat out at all.

As I said, if AV wishes to abstain from alcohol, good for him.
If AV needs to order his god to abstain from alcohol, pity Him.