Muhammad Ali, is he really as great.....

[LoricaLady]

Does it bother you that Ali was not a Christian?

Of course it does. I feel sorry for him.

 

[bhsmte]

Of course it does. I feel sorry for him.

Well, you must feel sorry for 2/3 of the world's population than.

 

[LoricaLady]

How many boxers (or athletes, in general) can say they talked someone down from suicide? Did you watch the video? They're was a psychologist and a pastor and both failed where Ali succeeded. Maybe it was specifically his celebrity status that helped convince the man it wasn't worth it.

If the celebrity status helped that man to not commit suicide, great. Again, countless people, who are no way celebrities, have saved lives also. I mentioned some already. How about people who do the Heimilich maneuver on others? How about brave soldiers and police officers who try to save others? Firemen who risk their lives frequently and sometimes lose them? Where are the media clips lauding them? Please stop looking a celebrities as your idols, as seems possible. Look at real, humble people who are doing more than Ali has ever done. Become, yourself, the hero that I personally think he no way was.

Again, this life is important, but the soul is infinitely more important. How many souls will say M.A. got them into Heaven? Or wherever?

You obviously don't think Heaven and eternity are issues in this topic. I do. But, even before I was a believer, I was not impressed at all by Ali. He danced around a boxing ring and hurt people more than they hurt him. Big whup. There is so much more to life than that.

 

[LoricaLady]

Well, you must feel sorry for 2/3 of the world's population than.

I do. But Messiah said most would choose the narrow, worldly, way and that few would take the path to eternal life. Btw truth is not determined by how many people believe this or that. It is determined by the data. I gave just a microscopic bit of it in an earlier post. All over the planet we see people disagreeing on everything. So...obviously the truth is not determined by what people like to think.

 

[bhsmte]

I do. But Messiah said most would choose the narrow, worldly, way and that few would take the path to eternal life. Btw truth is not determined by how many people believe this or that. It is determined by the data. I gave just a microscopic bit of it in an earlier post. All over the planet we see people disagreeing on everything. So...obviously the truth is not determined by what people like to think.

What data?

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

How many boxers (or athletes, in general) can say they talked someone down from suicide? Did you watch the video? They're was a psychologist and a pastor and both failed where Ali succeeded. Maybe it was specifically his celebrity status that helped convince the man it wasn't worth it.

He seemed to have a very poetic voice. I noticed that when he talked about being pretty and sting like a bee.

 

[civilwarbuff]

He was poetic....especially when it came to describing himself.....

 

[LoricaLady]

What data?

See my post #40, earlier on this string. Also, since you ask, I will provide some more data. It is a flake off the iceberg of what's out there for those who dare to look outside the box. It was collected as scientific evidence for creation and the Bible:

On this webpage you can see Nobel Prize winning scientists, other secular scientists - including some world famous evolutionists - admitting there is no evidence for evolution. You can see them calling evolution a kind of religion, something that leads to "anti knowledge", etc. Notice, also, how many of those secular scientists acknowledge that they see evidence for a Creator.
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1435562/posts

And btw I have had people post links to me from Talk Spin, aka Talk Origins, which they think prove that the quotes on the above link are "quote mines", i.e. out of context and misquoted. No, it is TO who does the quote mining, and if you want me to prove that to you in spades, let me know.

See Don Patton's The Fossil Record and many others. In this link he uses the fossil record to place evolutionary and creation predictions side by side. You can see for yourself what the real record of the rocks shows:

Thomas Kindell's vids are great, especially Thermodynamic Evidence For Creation where in the first 10 min. you hear quotes from well known evolutionists like "Evolution is unproven and unprovable. We believe it because the only alternative is special creation, and that is unthinkable."

Wazooloo vids, particularly The Mathematical Impossibility of Evolution and So Ya Think Yer A Chimp, and the DNA ones, are full of scientiic fact presented in an often humorous way. Also see Wazooloo's refutation of Aaron Ra's 8th Foundational Falsehood of Creationism to see how evo. supporters make big claims but give out lots of false "information" and sloppy "research."

Go to Genesispark to see ancient art depictions of dinos from around the world. My fave is the stegosaurus carved on a 1,000 year old Cambodian temple. That site has lots of info on blood and soft tissues being found in dino bones, and historical reports of dino type creatures, including some from the famous historian Herodotus and from Alexander the Great.

http://www.genesispark.com/exhibits/evidence/historical/ancient/dinosaur/

Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed shows the politics of NeoDarwinism which harrasses and expels those in academia and the media who even hint that there MIGHT be evidence for a Creator.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HErmp5Pzqw

Answersingenesis.org covers just about everything.

In regard to defense of the Bible in general:
See Don Patton, Archaeology Digging For The Truth Of The Bible.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...BD3FB0D3A5D200B9BD08BD3FB0D3A5D200B&FORM=VIRE

Guess what bhsmte? You're not an ape update! You were made in the image and likeness of the One Who created time, space, matter, energy and you. He loves you and wants you to know and love Him too. Forever.

 

[civilwarbuff]

So, how did we get side tracked onto evolutiion?

 

[LoricaLady]

So, how did we get side tracked onto evolutiion?

Someone asked what data there is to support my faith. Forgive me and him if there has been a digression. (As already mentioned, there have been many digressions on this string, to various topics.)However, I see you list yourself as a Christian, friend. It can be instructive to talk about famous personages, but...if there is an opportunity to help someone, along the way, maybe see through the matrix of deception in this world, and the truth of the Gospel, is that maybe an okay thing? Could even be a lurker.

 

[civilwarbuff]

 

[LoricaLady]

Oh how sweet. Maybe you are being "used". But you would be glad. Many blessings to you and yours, friend.

 

[bhsmte]

See my post #40, earlier on this string. Also, since you ask, I will provide some more data. It is a flake off the iceberg of what's out there for those who dare to look outside the box. It was collected as scientific evidence for creation and the Bible:

On this webpage you can see Nobel Prize winning scientists, other secular scientists - including some world famous evolutionists - admitting there is no evidence for evolution. You can see them calling evolution a kind of religion, something that leads to "anti knowledge", etc. Notice, also, how many of those secular scientists acknowledge that they see evidence for a Creator.
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1435562/posts

And btw I have had people post links to me from Talk Spin, aka Talk Origins, which they think prove that the quotes on the above link are "quote mines", i.e. out of context and misquoted. No, it is TO who does the quote mining, and if you want me to prove that to you in spades, let me know.

See Don Patton's The Fossil Record and many others. In this link he uses the fossil record to place evolutionary and creation predictions side by side. You can see for yourself what the real record of the rocks shows:

Thomas Kindell's vids are great, especially Thermodynamic Evidence For Creation where in the first 10 min. you hear quotes from well known evolutionists like "Evolution is unproven and unprovable. We believe it because the only alternative is special creation, and that is unthinkable."

Wazooloo vids, particularly The Mathematical Impossibility of Evolution and So Ya Think Yer A Chimp, and the DNA ones, are full of scientiic fact presented in an often humorous way. Also see Wazooloo's refutation of Aaron Ra's 8th Foundational Falsehood of Creationism to see how evo. supporters make big claims but give out lots of false "information" and sloppy "research."

Go to Genesispark to see ancient art depictions of dinos from around the world. My fave is the stegosaurus carved on a 1,000 year old Cambodian temple. That site has lots of info on blood and soft tissues being found in dino bones, and historical reports of dino type creatures, including some from the famous historian Herodotus and from Alexander the Great.

http://www.genesispark.com/exhibits/evidence/historical/ancient/dinosaur/

Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed shows the politics of NeoDarwinism which harrasses and expels those in academia and the media who even hint that there MIGHT be evidence for a Creator.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HErmp5Pzqw

Answersingenesis.org covers just about everything.

In regard to defense of the Bible in general:
See Don Patton, Archaeology Digging For The Truth Of The Bible.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...BD3FB0D3A5D200B9BD08BD3FB0D3A5D200B&FORM=VIRE

Guess what bhsmte? You're not an ape update! You were made in the image and likeness of the One Who created time, space, matter, energy and you. He loves you and wants you to know and love Him too. Forever.

LOL

 

[LoricaLady]

LOL

You asked for data. I gave it. You then did the rude thing of saying LOL. I prefer to respond to more articulate messages.

Anyone: I am now exiting this string due to time constraints. If you didn't see what I said in post #40 and #108 then anymore time spent on here will be a waste of time for us both.

I have prayed for all here. Best I can do.

Blessings and bye.

 

[Chesterton]

Oh, no wonder this thread had me confused! Ya'll are talking about the boxer! I thought ya'll were talking about the Mohammed Ali who murdered people and blew himself up in the 2005 Amman bombings. Or the Mohammad Ali who led Jemaah Islamiyah which murders people. Or those other Muhammad Ali's that murder people. My bad.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Oh, no wonder this thread had me confused! Ya'll are talking about the boxer! I thought ya'll were talking about the Mohammed Ali who murdered people and blew himself up in the 2005 Amman bombings. Or the Mohammad Ali who led Jemaah Islamiyah which murders people. Or those other Muhammad Ali's that murder people. My bad.

Yeah, you are bad.....LOL

 

[Tallguy88]

I was raised to not like Muhammad Ali. He was an arrogant boxer and a draft dodger. But it wasn't even the fact of being a draft dodger, it's that he took the dishonest way of doing it by claiming his religion forbade violence (lol I guess people didn't know much about Islam in the 70s) rather than do like normal people who didn't want to serve and flee the country or face potential fines and jail time.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

I was raised to not like Muhammad Ali. He was an arrogant boxer and a draft dodger. But it wasn't even the fact of being a draft dodger, it's that he took the dishonest way of doing it by claiming his religion forbade violence (lol I guess people didn't know much about Islam in the 70s) rather than do like normal people who didn't want to serve and flee the country or face potential fines and jail time.

Actually, no. He was quite honest and very vocal on why he wouldn't go to war.

“Why should they ask me to put on a uniform and go ten thousand miles from home and drop bombs and bullets on brown people in Vietnam while so-called Negro people in Louisville are treated like dogs and denied simple human rights?

No, I am not going ten thousand miles from home to help murder and burn another poor nation simply to continue the domination of white slave masters of the darker people the world over. This is the day when such evils must come to an end. I have been warned that to take such a stand would put my prestige in jeopardy and could cause me to lose millions of dollars which should accrue to me as the champion.

But I have said it once and I will say it again. The real enemy of my people is right here. I will not disgrace my religion, my people or myself by becoming a tool to enslave those who are fighting for their own justice, freedom and equality…

If I thought the war was going to bring freedom and equality to 22 million of my people they wouldn’t have to draft me, I’d join tomorrow. But I either have to obey the laws of the land or the laws of Allah. I have nothing to lose by standing up for my beliefs. So I’ll go to jail. We’ve been in jail for four hundred years.”
​

Seems like a pretty good reason to me.

 

[Tallguy88]

Actually, no. He was quite honest and very vocal on why he wouldn't go to war.

“Why should they ask me to put on a uniform and go ten thousand miles from home and drop bombs and bullets on brown people in Vietnam while so-called Negro people in Louisville are treated like dogs and denied simple human rights?

No, I am not going ten thousand miles from home to help murder and burn another poor nation simply to continue the domination of white slave masters of the darker people the world over. This is the day when such evils must come to an end. I have been warned that to take such a stand would put my prestige in jeopardy and could cause me to lose millions of dollars which should accrue to me as the champion.

But I have said it once and I will say it again. The real enemy of my people is right here. I will not disgrace my religion, my people or myself by becoming a tool to enslave those who are fighting for their own justice, freedom and equality…

If I thought the war was going to bring freedom and equality to 22 million of my people they wouldn’t have to draft me, I’d join tomorrow. But I either have to obey the laws of the land or the laws of Allah. I have nothing to lose by standing up for my beliefs. So I’ll go to jail. We’ve been in jail for four hundred years.”
​

Seems like a pretty good reason to me.

Sounds like he wasn't a contientious objector. To qualify as a CO, you have to be philosophically or religiously opposed to fighting in all wars, you don't get to pick and choose which wars are acceptable to you and which are not. That's not to say he didn't have good personal reason to not fight, just that that statement seems to disqualify him from being a true CO. Lots of people didn't want to fight, but either did so because they couldn't get out of it or left the country to avoid it. But he got to have his cake and eat it too.

 

[Oafman]

Oh, no wonder this thread had me confused! Ya'll are talking about the boxer! I thought ya'll were talking about the Mohammed Ali who murdered people and blew himself up in the 2005 Amman bombings. Or the Mohammad Ali who led Jemaah Islamiyah which murders people. Or those other Muhammad Ali's that murder people. My bad.

I thought they were talking about the founder of Pakistan.

Or the Swedish hiphop duo...