Most Christians have no concept of what Heaven is really like

parousia70 · Oct 16, 2020

1213 said:
In the new Jerusalem there is none of those who do evil.

Correct. Yet the Gates of the City remain open and the spirit and the Bride call "Come" from within the city to all outside its gates who thirst, "come drink freely from the water of Life"...

Evil is outside as said in that scripture.

Correct, Evildoers are on the New Earth, Just outside the gates of the City.

And I don’t think it means they are still practicing evil.

"But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie."

"Practices" here is present tense, present at the time of existing outside the gates of the city.

It's not people who used to practice, who once practiced, who formerly were practicing...

Jamdoc · Oct 16, 2020

parousia70 said:
Correct. Yet the Gates of the City remain open and the spirit and the Bride call "Come" from within the city to all outside its gates who thirst, "come drink freely from the water of Life"...

Correct, Evildoers are on the New Earth, Just outside the gates of the City.

"But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie."

"Practices" here is present tense, present at the time of existing outside the gates of the city.

It's not people who used to practice, who once practiced, who formerly practiced...

That sounds like an utterly terrible eternity. That sin and death still exist and life is confined to one city.

JacksBratt · Oct 16, 2020

Jamdoc said:
I still think I will be missing out on things that are good. That's not fullness of joy if you're missing things, and the fact that it is a guaranteed missing out on those things for eternity, that precisely makes it more painful, if it was temporary, that'd be easy. I know that while my disabilities limit me now and cause me pain now, that will be gone. The only things that they concern me as far as eternity goes is that I can do less for the Lord in this life because of my physical limitations, so my life matters less and there seems to be less purpose for all this pain because I can't find a way to use it to God's glory. That and, because it means I miss out on some things that are only possible on this earth and are not available in eternity. That hurts to be told "you want this? well you will never ever have it".
That and for a God who knows everyone better than they know themselves, it sure does seem like it's a one size fits all solution, fall on your face and sing for pleasure. If you don't like singing? If the LAST thing you'd do to express joy is sing?

So sorry that this is the way you view it..

Heaven will not be a "one size fits all"... In fact what God has in store for you is customized to what you will feel as paradise...

Doubt if I can change your mind, but..... you cannot, in your finite brain, imagine what eternity will be like.

parousia70 · Oct 16, 2020

Jamdoc said:
That sounds like an utterly terrible eternity. That sin and death still exist and life is confined to one city.

Agreed. And One of the Myriad reasons we know it's a metaphor.

Der Alte · Oct 16, 2020

Jamdoc said:
That sounds like an utterly terrible eternity. That sin and death still exist and life is confined to one city.

In Revelation 21:16, the angel measures the city with a golden rod or reed, and records it as 12,000 stadia by 12,000 stadia at the base, and 12,000 stadia high. A stadion is usually stated as 185 meters, or 607 feet, so the base has dimensions of about 2220 km by 2220 km, or 1380 miles by 1380 miles.

chad kincham · Oct 16, 2020

Jamdoc said:
This is at least hopeful although the only job specifically mentioned is ruling, but ruling over who has always been the thing I've wondered.

There will be nations full of mortal people on the earth, during the millennium and afterwards.

See Zechariah 14, where Jesus returns and destroys the armies attacking Jerusalem, and God dwells forever in Jerusalem, and the nations come up into the city to worship God.

chad kincham · Oct 16, 2020

parousia70 said:
Agreed. And One of the Myriad reasons we know it's a metaphor.

We know it’s not a metaphor, because it gives specific measurements: length, width, height, materials used, the thickness of the walls, how many gates the city has, etc. - and we know that the 1500 mile high and long city is the place Jesus went to prepare for us, that contains many mansions (rooms).

parousia70 · Oct 16, 2020

chad kincham said:
There will be nations full of mortal people on the earth, during the millennium and afterwards.

See Zechariah 14, where Jesus returns and destroys the armies attacking Jerusalem, and God dwells forever in Jerusalem, and the nations come up into the city to worship God.

Interesting... So in the Millennium, even the Unrepentant will share in Christ's Victory over Satan?

And all males will be required to be physically circumcised and render Blood animal sacrifices directly at the feet of Jesus for atonement of their sins and acceptance by Him? - or is that part metaphor?

Jamdoc · Oct 16, 2020

JacksBratt said:
So sorry that this is the way you view it..

Heaven will not be a "one size fits all"... In fact what God has in store for you is customized to what you will feel as paradise...

Doubt if I can change your mind, but..... you cannot, in your finite brain, imagine what eternity will be like.

If it's customized to what I want, why are things that I want missing, and why is the main activity displayed in the bible something I don't like doing? That doesn't sound customized at all. That sounds like God is not a respecter of persons.
Which I have to submit to.
We're to deny ourselves to follow Christ, does that sound like seeking your own personal happiness for yourself?

First off, what scripture do you have that says we get what we want customized for us? Cause I can't remember anything. If you use Psalm 37, well, I've already addressed that, it's not saying God becomes your wish granting Genie if you love Him, it says if you make the Lord the thing you desire the most then the Lord will give THAT to you, Himself. In otherwords, if you set your heart on the Lord AND something else.. you're not promised to get those something elses.
Secondly, some people also take that to mean you just stare at Jesus and that fulfills every desire, and that's also been the thing, as in OP suggested, that you're simply so high (that's what it sounds like, a high) that you don't care about anything else except being high and shouting praise for the one who flipped on the "high" button in your brain.
The "heaven is going to be whatever you want it to be" is just not supported by scripture imo
and "in heaven there's so much glory and you'll be so happy just seeing God that you won't want anything else" just sounds like an eternal drug trip, not something I want, something that revokes free will and sober thinking.
Glory simply doesn't interest me, not for myself. It's important to God so I have a duty to do what glorifies God... but for myself? It's nothing.
Glory and power aren't even the aspects of God that hold any appeal to me. Instead what I value of God is love, compassion, mercy, goodness, and knowledge.
God has the most of those qualities.. so.. that's what I desire of Him.
If God lacked those qualities, but still had all the power and glory that He does? I wouldn't love Him. I'm not interested in serving an all powerful self absorbed jerk. Before I understood what Jesus did, I had no love for God. I'd been told about God and His laws and His wrath since before I started grade school, and I had no love for Him at all.
If Jesus hadn't been healing the maimed, the blind, the lepers, and the possessed, I might not have love for Him. He showed compassion, He showed love laying down His life for many, He showed mercy, even in judging people for sin, He offered forgiveness, even to a prostitute.
If the gospels were just Jesus preaching hellfire and brimstone and then being shown in glory on the mount of transfiguration, and walking on water, just judgement and glory and power? I'd still be agnostic.

chad kincham · Oct 16, 2020

parousia70 said:
Then who are these people, Just outside the gates of the New Jerusalem, in the New Heavens and Earth that Revelation 22:15 testifies are there?
"But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie."

If there is no evil there, how are there people there in the process of practicing sexual immorality, sorcery, murder, idolatry and lies?

They’re outside the city, in the lake of fire:

Revelation 21:8 (KJV)

8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

chad kincham · Oct 16, 2020

Jamdoc said:
If it's customized to what I want, why are things that I want missing, and why is the main activity displayed in the bible something I don't like doing? That doesn't sound customized at all. That sounds like God is not a respecter of persons.
Which I have to submit to.
We're to deny ourselves to follow Christ, does that sound like seeking your own personal happiness for yourself?

Scripture states that no one has ever seen or heard or can even imagine the things God has for us... so speculation that comes from the very limited mortal experiences we have now, is useless.

1Co 2:9 But as it is written, "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, and no mind has imagined the things that God has prepared for those who love him."

Jamdoc · Oct 16, 2020

Der Alte said:
In Revelation 21:16, the angel measures the city with a golden rod or reed, and records it as 12,000 stadia by 12,000 stadia at the base, and 12,000 stadia high. A stadion is usually stated as 185 meters, or 607 feet, so the base has dimensions of about 2220 km by 2220 km, or 1380 miles by 1380 miles.

That's still a smaller world than we currently dwell in, and if we're tired of sin and death we'd be confined to a smaller space than this current planet. That's a very disappointing future.

Der Alte · Oct 16, 2020

Jamdoc said:
That's still a smaller world than we currently dwell in, and if we're tired of sin and death we'd be confined to a smaller space than this current planet. That's a very disappointing future.

I believe in the omnipotence and omniscience of God I believe that God can make it happen.

Jamdoc · Oct 16, 2020

chad kincham said:
Scripture states that no one has ever seen or heard or can even imagine the things God has for us... so speculation that comes from the very limited mortal experiences we have now, is useless.

1Co 2:9 But as it is written, "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, and no mind has imagined the things that God has prepared for those who love him."

Scripture also states things that won't be there, and a ting that will for sure be there. That's all I have to base off of and.. those things that I keep coming back to that won't be there (aside from sin and death) are disappointing to hear, as is the main activity displayed being singing.
That's really all I have to go off of so no it doesn't sound like fullness of joy. Not for me. Maybe for you.

Jamdoc · Oct 16, 2020

Der Alte said:
I believe in the omnipotence and omniscience of God I believe that God can make it happen.

what do you mean make it happen, if you're believing that an end to sin and death only exists within a single city smaller than this current earth, that's disappointing compared to the scripture that treats it as if the entire new earth and in fact universe is now free of death and sin.

RickReads · Oct 16, 2020

GirdYourLoins said:
Over the last couple of weeks there have been a couple of threads that have left me with the impression of the title of this post. It seems to me that people really do not know what to expect when in heaven. I've just done a reply to one but would like to do a thread based purely on what peoples expectations of heaven are. In that post I linked the article below and put in these quotes from it which really highlight my views on what to expect in heaven. I really think heaven is far more amazing than most Christians think and there is a real lack the concept of what it is like.
"and as startling as the impact of first love."
"I understood that they made the music because they could not contain it. It was the sound of sheer joy."
"filled to overflowing with indescribable, unconditional love."
(I will just add that some of this does appear to be metaphorical, such as the speck on a wing a of a butterfly)

What heaven's really like - by a leading brain surgeon who says he's been there: Read his testimony before you scoff...it might just shake your beliefs | Daily Mail Online

So what I want to ask is have you ever done any study on what heaven is like, have you had any revelation of it and whatever the answer to these what do you actually expect heaven to be like?

Thanks for posting this. I have a hard time visualizing heaven though I think about it often. Real or not it was a good read.

JacksBratt · Oct 17, 2020

Jamdoc said:
If it's customized to what I want, why are things that I want missing, and why is the main activity displayed in the bible something I don't like doing? That doesn't sound customized at all. That sounds like God is not a respecter of persons.
Which I have to submit to.
We're to deny ourselves to follow Christ, does that sound like seeking your own personal happiness for yourself?

First off, what scripture do you have that says we get what we want customized for us? Cause I can't remember anything. If you use Psalm 37, well, I've already addressed that, it's not saying God becomes your wish granting Genie if you love Him, it says if you make the Lord the thing you desire the most then the Lord will give THAT to you, Himself. In otherwords, if you set your heart on the Lord AND something else.. you're not promised to get those something elses.
Secondly, some people also take that to mean you just stare at Jesus and that fulfills every desire, and that's also been the thing, as in OP suggested, that you're simply so high (that's what it sounds like, a high) that you don't care about anything else except being high and shouting praise for the one who flipped on the "high" button in your brain.
The "heaven is going to be whatever you want it to be" is just not supported by scripture imo
and "in heaven there's so much glory and you'll be so happy just seeing God that you won't want anything else" just sounds like an eternal drug trip, not something I want, something that revokes free will and sober thinking.
Glory simply doesn't interest me, not for myself. It's important to God so I have a duty to do what glorifies God... but for myself? It's nothing.
Glory and power aren't even the aspects of God that hold any appeal to me. Instead what I value of God is love, compassion, mercy, goodness, and knowledge.
God has the most of those qualities.. so.. that's what I desire of Him.
If God lacked those qualities, but still had all the power and glory that He does? I wouldn't love Him. I'm not interested in serving an all powerful self absorbed jerk. Before I understood what Jesus did, I had no love for God. I'd been told about God and His laws and His wrath since before I started grade school, and I had no love for Him at all.
If Jesus hadn't been healing the maimed, the blind, the lepers, and the possessed, I might not have love for Him. He showed compassion, He showed love laying down His life for many, He showed mercy, even in judging people for sin, He offered forgiveness, even to a prostitute.
If the gospels were just Jesus preaching hellfire and brimstone and then being shown in glory on the mount of transfiguration, and walking on water, just judgement and glory and power? I'd still be agnostic.

So sorry that you feel this way..

NerdGirl · Oct 17, 2020

parousia70 said:
Then what do you see in scripture that indicates this is any different from the reality today? Nations are being healed right now by the tree of life.
Jesus most certainly wipes my tears away right now. We're not waiting for either of these realities to come, for they are already here.

I think you and I are just interpreting things differently.

Would you agree it is impossible for God to lie or go back on His word?

Of course.

But does really it help?

Sure.

Would you then also agree the same can be said of the mark of the beast? That its not a physical mark at all, but merely a "defining characteristic"?

I think it's certainly possible.

NerdGirl · Oct 17, 2020

parousia70 said:
Don't we already have those?

I wouldn't know, I'm not a vegetarian, lol.

NerdGirl · Oct 17, 2020

parousia70 said:
Then who are these people, Just outside the gates of the New Jerusalem, in the New Heavens and Earth that Revelation 22:15 testifies are there?
"But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie."

If there is no evil there, how are there people there in the process of practicing sexual immorality, sorcery, murder, idolatry and lies?

"Without" or "outside" simply means they aren't in the Holy City. Which means they could be far away from it. Like in hell.

Most Christians have no concept of what Heaven is really like

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow

Watching and Praying Always

Searching for Truth

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow

This is me about 1 yr. old.

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow

Watching and Praying Always

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Watching and Praying Always

This is me about 1 yr. old.

Watching and Praying Always

Watching and Praying Always

Well-Known Member

Searching for Truth

The untamed daughter

The untamed daughter

The untamed daughter

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency