Moses, Christ, and Paul

[GospelS]

After gathering my understanding from my other threads, now there’s this new question in my mind. I hope you will help me. Thanks.

If we are referring what God gave to the nation of Israel through Moses as Judaism (I mean following a lifestyle given in the Old Testament, excluding man made traditions and pagan culture).

and what God gave to them through Christ as Messianic Judaism,

then did God again give a different ‘ism’ to the grafted-in branches (spiritual Israel) through Paul? How different is it from what Christ gave?

P.S- I believe that the Judaism that accepts their Messiah is the true Judaism if Israelite's really understood their scriptures correctly. Judaism believes in Messiah, wants Him and waiting for Him. They are just unaware who He is.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

My impression of Paul was that he was less bold than Jesus with mercy to sinners and confronting Pharisees, yet was more bold than any normal man. He was stern with sinners in the fellowship.

 

[HARK!]

YHWH's covenant is with Israel.

Yahshua was commissioned only for the lost sheep of Israel.

We are to be one in Yahshua, no Jew, no Gentile, just spiritual Israel.

 

[GospelS]

Yahshua was commissioned only for the lost sheep of Israel.

Right. Thanks for sharing. I edited that in OP. Who are the lost sheep of Israel? Is it all of them or are there only some that are lost? Are there some sheep that were never lost and did not need Yahshua to save them?

 

[solid_core]

After gathering my understanding from my other threads, now there’s this new question in my mind. I hope you will help me. Thanks.

If we are referring what God gave to the nation of Israel through Moses as Judaism

and what God gave to them through Christ as Messianic Judaism,

then did God again give a different ‘ism’ to the grafted-in branches (spiritual Israel) through Paul? How different is it from what Christ gave?

God never gave any judaism. Judaism is a man made religion.

God gave the Old Covenant (through Moses) and the New Covenant (through Jesus) only.

 

[HTacianas]

After gathering my understanding from my other threads, now there’s this new question in my mind. I hope you will help me. Thanks.

If we are referring what God gave to the nation of Israel through Moses as Judaism

and what God gave to them through Christ as Messianic Judaism,

then did God again give a different ‘ism’ to the grafted-in branches (spiritual Israel) through Paul? How different is it from what Christ gave?

Messianic Judaism is an offshoot of Protestantism that did not exist until the 1960s.

What God gave the world through Christ is the New Covenant. Its adherents are Christians. Paul was a Christian apostle, meaning that he preached Christianity.

 

[HARK!]

Right. Thanks for sharing. I edited that in OP. Who are the lost sheep of Israel? Is it all of them or are there only some that are lost? Are there some sheep that were never lost and did not need Yahshua to save them?

Was Enoch lost, Abraham, Moses, David, the prophets? Maybe they were before they came to know YHWH. It's YHWH who saves us all; but I believe it is all who are saved through Yahshua, even Abraham; because all have sinned.

Just my humble opinion.

 

[GospelS]

God never gave any judaism. Judaism is a man made religion.

God gave the Old Covenant (through Moses) and the New Covenant (through Jesus) only.

Thanks for sharing. Right. It is just as Christianity is a man made religion and God never gave it. I hope we don’t follow it but Christ alone.

 

[GospelS]

Messianic Judaism is an offshoot of Protestantism that did not exist until the 1960s.

What God gave the world through Christ is the New Covenant. Its adherents are Christians. Paul was a Christian apostle, meaning that he preached Christianity.

Maybe the term technically it didn’t exist. But generally adopting certain lifestyle that God gave in the Old Testament through the perspective and in light of Christ is what it refers to. Like for example Paul kept following some lifestyle given in the Old Testament in light of better understanding through Christ. It is what people now call as ‘Messianic Judaism’. But it was already there.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Thanks for sharing. Right. It is just as Christianity is a man made religion and God never gave it. I hope we don’t follow it but Christ alone.

SOLA FIDE, SOLA GRATIA, SOLA CHRISTO

 

[HARK!]

Maybe the term technically it didn’t exist. But generally adopting certain lifestyle that God gave in the Old Testament through the perspective and in light of Christ is what it refers to. Like for example Paul kept following some lifestyle given in the Old Testament in light of better understanding through Christ. It is what people now call as ‘Messianic Judaism’. But it was already there.

It would appear that this is how Paul labeled his faith:

(CLV) Ac 24:14
"Yet I am avowing this to you, that, according to the way which they are terming a sect, thus am I offering divine service to the hereditary God, believing all that is written, according to the law and in the prophets,

 

[GospelS]

Was Enoch lost, Abraham, Moses, David, the prophets? Maybe they were before they came to know YHWH. It's YHWH who saves us all; but I believe it is all who are saved through Yahshua, even Abraham; because all have sinned.

Just my humble opinion.

Thanks for sharing. My opinion is that all those Israelites who realized they are lost are the ones that are ‘lost’ and seeking to be found. It is to them Yahshua was sent so they be found. Those Israelites who did not realize they are lost, are not seeking to be found as they were never lost in their minds to begin with, but they all are lost in real. For example some of the Pharisees assumed they were on the right path and were not lost in their minds to understand who Yahshua is. But the people who needed a savior found their Messiah.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I don't think there is such a thing as Messianic Judaism, but there are Messianic Jews.

Judaism denies Jesus is Messiah.

Messianic Jews at conversion are often excommunicated from family, lose jobs, the family may even hold a funeral for them.

They then have to figure out what aspects of their Jewish culture and religion can carry over into their new found faith.

 

[faroukfarouk]

I don't think there is such a thing as Messianic Judaism, but there are Messianic Jews.

Judaism denies Jesus is Messiah.

Messianic Jews at conversion are often excommunicated from family, lose jobs, the family may even hold a funeral for them.

They then have to figure out what aspects of their Jewish culture and religion can carry over into their new found faith.

They have a great heritage in the Old Testament Scriptures that speak of Christ. From the point of view of the church, it's not appropriate when a person regards what s/he is as a Jew is more significant than what s/he or others are in Christ.

 

[HARK!]

I don't think there is such a thing as Messianic Judaism

Messianic Judaism - Wikipedia

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

I don't think there is such a thing as Messianic Judaism, but there are Messianic Jews.

Judaism denies Jesus is Messiah.

Messianic Jews at conversion are often excommunicated from family, lose jobs, the family may even hold a funeral for them.

They then have to figure out what aspects of their Jewish culture and religion can carry over into their new found faith.

How does a Jew "convert" to a belief in the Jewish Messiah? "Christianity" is just a true continuation of Judaism...it is not a new religion (although maybe some "christian" denoms could be). RABBINIC Judaism denies Yeshua...

 

[GospelS]

I don't think there is such a thing as Messianic Judaism, but there are Messianic Jews.

Judaism denies Jesus is Messiah.

Messianic Jews at conversion are often excommunicated from family, lose jobs, the family may even hold a funeral for them.

They then have to figure out what aspects of their Jewish culture and religion can carry over into their new found faith.

Thanks for sharing. I understand how it is currently followed but I'm not going by that worldly definition and all people look at it that way. In real, Judaism that accepts Messiah is the true Judaism if Israelites really understood their scriptures correctly. That was my thought process as I'm not thinking in accordance to this world standards but I understand what you said.

 

[createdtoworship]

Messianic Judaism - Wikipedia

what he is saying is that they are really technically 'messianic' not jews at all. They forsook judaism when they became christian as it says in Galatians 5:2

 

[GospelS]

I believe that the Judaism that accepts their Messiah is the true Judaism if Israelite's really understood their scriptures correctly. Judaism believes in Messiah, wants Him and waiting for Him. They are just unaware who He is.

 

[HARK!]

what he is saying is that they are really technically 'messianic' not jews at all. They forsook judaism when they became christian as it says in Galatians 5:2

Paul also says this:

(CLV) Ro 2:25
For circumcision, indeed, is benefiting if you should be putting law into practice, yet if you should be a transgressor of law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision.

Why did Paul circumcise Timothy?