Moses, Christ, and Paul

[Carl Emerson]

Men today have all kinds of spiritual experiences; That does not mean they are correct in what they are doing.

I believe faith is not based on experience, but faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17). Show me in the Bible where prayer and fasting has ended to cast out devils out of a person.

Show me in the bible that you are allowed to drive a car to church. (Chapter and verse please)

The bible is not an exhaustive commentary regarding every detail of the affairs of mankind.

A better question is what changed after Pentecost.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Wow. Is that your phrase or is it a copied phrase? I never heard that before. I like it. Yes and yes, Kingdom of God is Jesus, for He is the King. In Him is the God's Kingdom.

I honestly forgot how I learned of Jesus being the "Kingdom."
It may been through reading a Christian article online.

But I do believe the "Kingdom of God" is in reference to "Jesus."

Why?

Well, John the baptist said, "repent" (seek forgiveness with God by way of prayer), for the Kingdom of God (JESUS) was at hand (near, or coming).

We can read about how the disciples preached the kingdom of God before the cross:

"And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick." (Luke 9:2).​

Yet, the kingdom of God was preached after the cross, too:

"Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him." (Acts of the Apostles 28:31).​

Kingdoms are made up of people.
Jesus is the head of the Kingdom.
For you cannot have a Kingdom without King, and Jesus is he King of Kings.

The Kingdom of God is Jesus.

For the Kingdom can be within a person.

"Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you." (Luke 17:21).​

Jesus says, "If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you." (John 15:7). Jesus stands at the door of men's hearts and knocks to come inside them: "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me." (Revelation 3:20). "That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love," (Ephesians 3:17).

Jesus identifies Himself as the Kingdom of God when He says,

"But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you." (Luke 11:20).​

When Jesus told His disciples that when they healed the sick, they are to say to them that the Kingdom of God has come near to them.

"And heal the sick there, and say to them, ‘The kingdom of God has come near to you.’" (Luke 10:9).​

This again is Jesus healing them. Jesus is the Kingdom of God. He is the One who heals.

"The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised," (Luke 4:18).​

Jesus is the One who lives in all believers thereby making up the Kingdom of God's people. It's why we are the body of Christ.

"So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another." (Romans 12:5).

 

[createdtoworship]

Thanks for sharing. Are you saying Christianity is all about the Messiah. Judaism is also all about the Messiah but no one knows it except a few. I hope I could make everyone to see how it is all about Messiah but I cannot. Everyone wants worlds definitions, not God's definitions. I'm talking about a Judaism that is without man made traditions and pagan culture. That is the same God we also follow today.

Well they are both about the messiah, it's just that one doesn't know who it is. But christianity is about the true messiah, that Jews will realize one day. Probably after prophecy of the 'abomination that makes desolate.' I think the antichrist will slay a pig on the altar of the new temple in jerusalem and the Jews will realize the anti christ is not the messiah and that this was all foretold.

 

[createdtoworship]

(CLV) Ro 2:25
For circumcision, indeed, is benefiting if you should be putting law into practice, yet if you should be a transgressor of law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision.

Why did Paul circumcise Timothy?

yeah if you live by the law, then circumcision is practical, if you see the NKJV of that verse it makes more sense than your version.

 

[Hawkins]

After gathering my understanding from my other threads, now there’s this new question in my mind. I hope you will help me. Thanks.

If we are referring what God gave to the nation of Israel through Moses as Judaism (I mean following a lifestyle given in the Old Testament, excluding man made traditions and pagan culture).

and what God gave to them through Christ as Messianic Judaism,

then did God again give a different ‘ism’ to the grafted-in branches (spiritual Israel) through Paul? How different is it from what Christ gave?

P.S- I believe that the Judaism that accepts their Messiah is the true Judaism if Israelite's really understood their scriptures correctly. Judaism believes in Messiah, wants Him and waiting for Him. They are just unaware who He is.

That's what testimonies are.

In a car incident, when the reporters arrived on scene they will try to visit the eyewitnesses on what happened as what they saw. That's the 4 gospels (actually the first 3 as John became more of a theologian), they recorded down mainly the deeds and speeches of Jesus Christ but may not go in-depth to a theological level.

Then the reporters will try to visit some expert mechanics on how the car possibly run into such an incident. That's the role of Paul, he provided a theological level of explanation on what are behind the scene.

Then the Fox News somehow refused to report the news when requested by the US government. Because the US government has a long time relationship (i.e., through Moses when applied to the Jews) with Fox News thus would like to give it the privilege but turned down by Fox News. That's what the Jews did.

Then the US government turns to CNN for the piece of news to be broadcast/preached. That's what Christianity is.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

While the commands may have been different, I believe God's grace through faith in the Messiah, and Sanctification (living holy by God's power working in them - So there is no boasting in themselves) existed in:

(a) Moses teachings given to him and Israel by God.
(b) Christ's teachings given to Him by the Father for Israel (and eventually all the world).
(c) Paul and the other apostles' teachings given to them by God to give to the whole world or all nations.​

I believe we are to follow the teachings in the New Testament by Jesus and His apostles (excluding any Old Covenant commands).

But ultimately, why is it important to know the teachings of God in the first place? What does it really come down to?

These two things:

(1) God's grace through faith in the Messiah, and
(2) Sanctification (living holy by God)​

...is a part of a believer's salvation.

Salvation.
Without salvation, there is nothing.
Without God in our lives and His love, there is nothing.

"...God has from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit
and belief of the truth:"
(2 Thessalonians 2:13) (AKJV).

“I tell you the truth [Truly, truly I say to you], whoever hears [obeys] what I say [my word/message] and believes in the One who sent me has eternal life. That person will not be judged guilty [come into judgment/condemnation] but has already left death and entered life [passed from death into life]." (John 5:24) (EXB).

"You see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24) (AKJV).

A person needs to first be forgiven by God's grace. Nobody can save themselves by their own effort alone or by doing good deeds alone. I believe that is what Paul heavily emphasized in Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4:3-5, and Titus 3:5. A person needs to have their past slate of sin wiped out and forgiven by the Lord. If a person lives out their faith and has a Bible to read it, they eventually need to seek forgiveness of their sins with Jesus by way of prayer with Him (Romans 10:13) (1 John 2:1-2) (1 John 1:9) (Luke 18:9-14) (Proverbs 28:13) (Psalms 51), and they eventually need to believe the full gospel, which is believing that Christ Jesus died for their sins, and He was buried, and He was risen three days later on their behalf for salvation, according to the Scriptures (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

But salvation does not stop there. Salvation continues in the Sanctification Process by the working and power of God. No believer can save themselves and or do a good work without God. If they abide in Christ, they will bring forth good fruit. If they do not abide in Christ, they will not produce good fruit and they be like a branch that is withered and it will then be cut off and thrown into the fire and burned (See: John 15:1-6).

"For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not you. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in his goodness: otherwise you also shall be cut off. " (Romans 11:21-22).

We are told to follow after:

(1) Peace with all men.
(2) Holiness.​

Without which no man shall see the Lord.

"Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:" (Hebrews 12:14).

No believer can justify sin and or think that they can commit grievous sin, and not confess of it, and still be saved. 1 John 1:9 says if we confess of our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins. So having a belief alone on Jesus for salvation is not the way as many in the church teach today. God's grace is not a safety net to sin in some way. Jude warned about those who would turn God's grace into a license for immorality (Jude 1:4).

Like the old church hymn called: "Trust and Obey," that says,

"....Trust and obey, For there is no other way...."

We need to believe in Jesus and His grace for salvation, AND obey the Lord.

For Jesus says,

"And why call you me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?"
(Luke 6:46).

 

[faroukfarouk]

Wow. Is that your phrase or is it a copied phrase? I never heard that before. I like it. Yes and yes, Kingdom of God is Jesus, for He is the King. In Him is the God's Kingdom.

I think the Transfiguration (Matthew 17) is instructive also on this subject. Moses and Elijah witnessed the glory of the Lord Jesus, showing His fulfillment of the law and the prophets (Romans 3.1); and Peter could say he and certain other disciples were 'eyewitnesses to His majesty' (2 Peter 1.16).

 

[lordjeff]

We have a Messianic Judaic Temple in our state. Just a branch of a larger religion.

 

[Scott Husted]

I don't believe there is a difference just a different place of viewing the same one truth.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

After gathering my understanding from my other threads, now there’s this new question in my mind. I hope you will help me. Thanks.

If we are referring what God gave to the nation of Israel through Moses as Judaism (I mean following a lifestyle given in the Old Testament, excluding man made traditions and pagan culture).

and what God gave to them through Christ as Messianic Judaism,

then did God again give a different ‘ism’ to the grafted-in branches (spiritual Israel) through Paul? How different is it from what Christ gave?

P.S- I believe that the Judaism that accepts their Messiah is the true Judaism if Israelite's really understood their scriptures correctly. Judaism believes in Messiah, wants Him and waiting for Him. They are just unaware who He is.

It is sometimes better to use the Terms in the Bible, and "Judaism" is not there. There called themselves Jews and assumed they were following the instructions given to Moses from God for them.
So God did not give them an -ism but a way to walk with God and be His people having relationship with them through the Mosiac covenant.

Christ was the fulfillment of that and a new covenant was esablished with them, the Jews. He did not give anyone a different -ism, but a new covenent whereby Jews (people of the original covenant) and gentiles (all those outside of this covenant) could be "grafted into" Christ. This is what the NT teaches, both Paul and the Gospels. The new covenant is in his blood beginning with the forgiveness of sins and moving into to full surrender of your life to God and Walking with him thereby having his ways enscribed upon the hearts.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

what he is saying is that they are really technically 'messianic' not jews at all. They forsook judaism when they became christian as it says in Galatians 5:2

I suspect "Messanic" Jews simply are not prepared to do as the disciples had to do which is leave the old covenant. I can see why. Their community of Jews does not take kindly to those who come to understand Jesus of Nazarath as the Messiah. They killed many of the believers over decades for doing so.