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Featured MORE RAPTURE QUESTIONS

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by WailingWall, Jun 24, 2017.

  1. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    I have often heard from Dispensationalists that animal sacrifices will occur in the Millennial temple, as a "memorial".

    So much for the lion laying down with the lamb...

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  2. jerry kelso

    jerry kelso Food For Thought

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    jgr,

    1. Accepting ethnic Jews doesn't mean they were not Semitic in all.
    The RCC were two faced and mixed in men's tradition etc.
    Taking in ethnic Jews as proselytizing and claiming they got the truth from the Jews and then turning around to try and steal their covenants and Replace them by AS is antisemetic and they killed them too because they wanted to exalt the church about the Jews. Antisemitism was about the Catholic Churches hatred of the Jews because being God's chosen people. AS is the culprit and faulty hermeneutics as I have already stated.

    2. Galatians 3:16; 2Corinthians 1:2O; and Hebrews 1:1-2 have all to with salvation for new Covenant believers not the physical KoH itself.

    3. Matthew 24:14 you are wrong according to the context.
    In Jesus says the KoH and the KoG were under one program but they were two different and distinct things.
    We have a body soul and mind in one person but they are still 3 distinct parts of us that function differently.
    Their is a physical KoH reign on earth as well as a spiritual kingdom of the spiritual rule of God in man's heart.
    You believe that but even in the 1000 year reign there will be people who are not Christian ladies that obey the civil law but who will rebel after the 1000 years when Satan is loosed and deceives them and they are destroyed by fire out of Heaven. I' out of time but to say the least your hermeneutics are out of whack. Jerry kelso
     
  3. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Jerry,
    1.
    I'm certainly not attempting to defend the papacy, its prolonged apostasy is of great scriptural prophetic significance, and its war on the saints is unequaled in Christian history. But if it killed Jews even after they had converted to Catholicism, I'd be interested to see evidence.
    2.
    All promises fulfilled in Christ. All things inherited by Christ. KoG included. KoH included. No exceptions. No distinctions.
    3.
    One gospel. One kingdom. No separation of kingdoms expressed or implied. No distinction between kingdoms expressed or implied. KoG and KoH one and the same, consistent with their interchangeable use in Scripture.
     
  4. jerry kelso

    jerry kelso Food For Thought

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    baberean2,

    Read Ezekiel 33-36.

    1.33:16-26; talks about the last days where Judah shall be saved and Jerusalem shall dwell safely and David will never want to be without a man to sit on his throne and the priests will always offer burnt offerings, meat offerings and sacrifice continually.
    If they break God's covenant of day and night in their season then the covenant with David would be broken that he should not have a son to reign upon his throne and with the Levites the priests my ministers. God said, instead he would multiply Davids seed and the Levites for as the host of Heaven cannot be numbered neither the sand of the sea be measured.
    If the ordinances of day and night, Heaven and earth are not appointed by me then God said he would cast away the seed of Jacob and David his servant so they would not be able to have seed to rule over from Abraham,Isaac and Jacob.
    Isaiah 56:7; burnt offerings and sacrifices shall be accepted on God's altar.
    Zechariah talks about the Feast of tabernacles and there will be sacrifices all for a memorial.
    If the heathen don't come up God will smite them.

    2. You are wrong that their will be no sacrifices in the millennial kingdom though they will be for a memorial. Despite this the Lamb will lay down with the Lion. So you are just using your own logic to think both cannot happen in the kingdom.
    3. You are also wrong to think people will not be saved for the heathens are there and if they transgress God's law they will be smitten and also no rain etc.
    So you are wrong to think that it cannot both be a kingdom of peace and punishment being exacted and is not political.
    4. You are too one sided and cannot understand paradoxes too well and how they work. Jerry kelso
     
  5. jerry kelso

    jerry kelso Food For Thought

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    jgr,

    1. I never said they killed their proselytes.

    2. Everything is fulfilled in Christ and there is no argument with that.
    The fact is there is a physical Millennial KoH reign on earth Coming that will have a government Isaiah 2:2-4 and 9:6-7. And thee is a spiritual rule in man's heart called salvation by grace.
    These are two distinct kingdoms in one overall kingdom because the KoH in the aspect of this physical earth is an earthly sphere of the Physical Kingdom of God universal.
    Revelation 11:15 shows there are many kingdoms of this world on earth that are in the universal KoG. Christ has to take over these Kingdoms.
    Many kingdoms in one big kingdom just like 50 states in one big country.
    Just because there is a spiritual kingdom doesn't mean there is no physical kingdom that is a different distinction and vice versa.
    Your logic is out there lost in an endless sea if you cannot understand this. Jerry kelso
     
  6. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    The lion laying down with the lamb is a description of the curse being removed.
    Your version of the millennium does not have the curse removed, because some rebel against Christ at the end of your millennium.


    You cannot have it both ways.

    Based on the Book of Hebrews, animal sacrifices and the Levitical priesthood are finished.
    The Book of Hebrews is not wrong.


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  7. jerry kelso

    jerry kelso Food For Thought

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    baberean2,

    1. You just gave your opinion and you did not prove the scripture and it's context I gave wrong.

    2. The Levitical sacrifices were commanded by God as a type to the coming of Calvary's lamb, Jesus Christ.
    The sacrifices in the millennial kingdom are eternal and for a memorial.
    The purpose is different just like the Melchizedek is a different Priesthood from the Levitical priesthood. Are you going say Jesus is no longer a priest because that ended with the Levites? We will be priests in the KoH reign. Are we dismissed from that possibility because it was only Old Covenant?

    3. You tie it to the curse because of the wolf and the lamb laying down together. Are you going to be a part of the PITA club?
    Since that deals with peace and everyone will be saved according to you, how does God have enemies who he has to put down 1 Corinthians 15:24, why will God Psalms 2:9 and saints Revelation 2:26-27 rule the KoH with a rod of iron?
    And why if their is no killing then why does God send fire out of Heaven to earth and destroy the last rebellion of mankind?
    I believe you think that the last rebellion is the same as Armageddon on the Day of the Lord?
    If that was true, then the 1000 years would have to be the tribulation which is absurd since Satan will be alive and well and give his power and seat and authority to the Antichrist and he is not bound for sin is rampant then.
    If you say the 1000 year reign is today then why are people still being deceived by Satan.
    Rebut these scriptures by answering according to the scripture. Jerry kelso
     
  8. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Jerry,

    First of all it is PETA, instead of PITA.

    Christ is the only High Priest, forever.

    Based on Psalm 2, Christ does not correct the wicked with the rod of iron.
    He destroys them.


    The text does not say that Satan cannot deceive people during the thousand years.
    It says the nations. Because there are missionaries all over the world whole nations have not been deceived, as they were during the time before Christ.


    During the tribulation period most missionaries will likely be prevented from sharing the Gospel.

    A major part of what you claim depends on a difference between the kingdom of God and the kingdom of Heaven, which is a difference that does not exist.
    Even though this has been demonstrated on several occasions, you just continue to ignore it.


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  9. jerry kelso

    jerry kelso Food For Thought

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    baberean2,

    PETA,

    1. I know I am glad you recognized it and understood it. Too bad you couldn't understand Biblical context as easy as that.

    2. Christ is the only High Priest and he has made us all priests.

    3. He will destroy those enemies at Armageddon and in the KoH reign when they break the civil law.
    Psalm 2:9 goes with Revelation 2:26-27; and he that overcometh, and keepers my works to the end to him will I give power over the nations.
    And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shiver: even as I received of my Father.
    Broken to shivers means to small pieces.
    We are being trained today for rulership training 2 Timothy 2:12.
    The law will have to be kept which came from Moses law and some will be New Covenant Laws too and the punishment has to according to the law. The Judgement will be immediate and sure so there will be no rebels running around starting rebellions during the Kingdom.
    There will be rebels in heart and most of them will be the ones deceived when Christ is let out of the bottomless pit.

    2. Deceive the people and not the nations?
    That shows how desperate you are to be right and it don't work.
    Nations are people that are rebels in there hearts that are the nations. There are no national leaders of government during the KoH reign on earth.
    Also, Satan is bound by chain so he can't deceive anyone Revelation 20:1-3. So you are hunting and catching nothing except empty rhetoric and your own opinion and logic.
    That is totally ridiculous and you know it.

    4. The 144,000 and the remnant and the remnant will finish their ministries without dying. The two witnesses will finish their ministry before they are killed and raised.
    The Antichrist will war on the saints and overcome them.
    The gospel will not prevented from going forth. Joel says that in that day the Spirit will be poured out on all flesh. You are wrong again because you are going on poor logic.

    5. I have proved you wrong and all you can do is disagree.
    I have also told you there is a physical KoH reign on earth called the millennium which is different than the spiritual kingdom of the the KoG which pertains to salvation.
    Whether you call salvation the KoH or the KoG and the physical KoH or KoG all one their is a distinction between the physical kingdom and the spiritual kingdom.
    The Jews have to repent and be saved by the New Covenant before they can gain entrance into the physical kingdom and reign. That is the undisputed truth and distinction.

    6. Now if there is only one kingdom then that means the earth never had a beginning and is completely eternal.
    The earth is just a part of the whole universe.
    Flesh and blood inherit the earth and Heaven where God resides is not inherited by flesh and blood. There are other things and I have given you scriptures before and you can't rebut them and that is why you have to go back your mantra of scriptures that just tell part of the story and don't have nothing to do with rebutting the context I give.
    You need to quit giving your opinion and bad logic and being one sided and not show the full context and reconciliation of scripture. Jerry kelso
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2017
  10. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Since the New Covenant has made the Old Covenant "obsolete" based on the scripture below, your claim above about keeping Moses law in the future cannot be correct.

    Heb 8:13  In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. 


    .
     
  11. jerry kelso

    jerry kelso Food For Thought

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    baberean2,

    1. You can do certain things contained in the Mosaic law and not be sinning.
    You can abstain from pork as a Christian which is part of Moses law but you can't do it to live under the whole ethic of Moses and the purpose or reason was different back then.
    You perform moral laws which was before and during the law and now under different rules. You have to look at the whole context that goes with doing the different Covenants that stem from gradual revelation.

    2. Civil law is still around but under a different context than Israel who had theocratic government.
    Adultery is still wrong but people are not stoned as punishment unless you're under Muslim law.

    3. The reason for your weak logic is tunnel vision and refusal to look and understand the whole context and sane logic. Jerry kelso
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2017
  12. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Maybe you think the Apostle Paul had "tunnel vision" when he called the Sinai Covenant a covenant of "bondage" and compelled the Galatian believers to "cast out" the Sinai Covenant.


    Gal 4:24  which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar— 
    Gal 4:25  for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children— 
    Gal 4:30  Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? "CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON, FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREEWOMAN." 
    Gal 4:31  So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free. 


    The inability to understand the difference between the Sinai Covenant and the New Covenant of Christ is one of the biggest problems in the modern Church.

    The Judaisers are still with us today and many of those promoting your doctrine are Judaisers.

    J.R. Church once went out to eat with another pastor from Texas and complained when the man ordered pork.

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  13. jerry kelso

    jerry kelso Food For Thought

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    baberean2,

    1. You didn't understand one thing I posted and you didn't rebut it by scripture either.

    2. Galatians 4:24,25;31; You keep the 10 commandments and they are in Moses law and was the law at Mt. Sinai that is bondage.
    So obviously you just stuck both of your feet in your mouth or are you going to deny it?
    And Apostle Paul had no tunnel vision so that leaves this post you just posted. Jerry kelso
     
  14. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    I have never kept the 4th commandment and neither have most of those who claim that they do.

    The 10 commandments are the Sinai Covenant, as revealed below.

    Exo 34:28  So he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments. 


    Below Paul calls the Sinai Covenant "the ministry of death".

    2Co 3:6  who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 
    2Co 3:7  But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 
    2Co 3:8  how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?


    You have been deceived by the continuing battle between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant of Christ.
    Sadly, the Judaisers are still winning the battle. 



    There are two different sets of commandments in the verse below.

    Joh 15:10  If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

    . 
     
  15. jerry kelso

    jerry kelso Food For Thought

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    1. Excuse me, 9 of the Ten Commandments.
    Mt. Was Exodus 20 originally and 34 was because Moses broke the tablets.
    They were still valid the second time and even with Moses writing them on the tablets of stone.
    You still adhere to the commandments of the Ten Commandments not in the letter but of the Spirit and because they are in the New Covenant.

    4. Paul said not to judge any man in meat or drink.
    This is why we can eat pork and not sin. You are trying to say I am being deceived by the continuing battle between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant.
    By that absurdity you have no possibility to commit sin in the Ten Commandments because it is contained in the Old Covenant.

    5. Love is the fulfillment of the law.
    Because it is a fact that the government will be a theocracy and their will be enemies that transgress the law then some civil laws will be used from both the oOld and New Covenants and under the context of the KoH reign and not the context of the Moses Law.
    Just because there are things brought over from one covenant to another doesn't mean one is living the whole context of the previous covenant. That is simply not true. Jerry kelso
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2017
  16. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    By claiming that we are still under the Old Covenant you are ignoring the "ministry of death written on stones" in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and the fact that the Old Covenant was "added" 430 years "after" the promise made to Abraham in Galatians 3:16-29, and Paul telling the Galatian believers to "cast out" the Sinai covenant of "bondage" in Galatians 4:21-31, and the New Covenant making the Old Covenant "obsolete" in Hebrews 8:6-13, and the contrast between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant in Hebrews 12:18-24.

    Read all of those texts and then talk about the "absurdity" of claiming that we are still under the Old Covenant.

    .
     
  17. jerry kelso

    jerry kelso Food For Thought

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    baberean2,

    1. I never claimed we are under the Old Covenant Law of Moses.
    Why do you keep twisting my words.

    2. You are the one that claims there will be no civil law in the KoH reign at all for all will be peace.
    1 Corinthians 15:24 says Christ has to reign till he puts down sin and rebellion and his enemies under his feet. This is talking about the KoH reign in the 1st 1000 years.
    The civil law was in the Mosaic Covenant and some of those laws will be implemented in the kingdom reign as well as some NC commands.
    Just like the Feast are forever in the kingdom that are eternal and came from the law of Moses.
    Are you gonna say we are under the Mosaic law because they were a part of the law and we cannot have that or else we'll be under the Old Covenant. Quit twisting the God's Word by your wrong logic.

    3. Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Hebrews 8:7-13 will be the time that the whole nation of Israel will accept and receive the New Covenant and live under the New Covenant in the Kingdom age. Just because there will be some civil laws from the law doesn't mean they will live under the context of the Old Covenant.
    Your problem is that you don't understand the context of the Kingdom age and how it differs from the Mosaic law or the New Covenant. Jerry kelso
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2017
  18. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    You are the one who claimed we will be under the 10 commandments during the millennium, and based on Exodus 34:28 the 10 Commandments are the Sinai covenant.

    Exo 34:28  So he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments. 

    .
     
  19. jerry kelso

    jerry kelso Food For Thought

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    baberean2,

    1. I did no such thing.

    2. Your argument is that because I believe there will be civil law in the KoH reign which some laws will be from the Old Covenant that that means I believe we will be living under the law of Moses. That is not true!
    Isaiah 2:2-4; Micah 4:2; Ezekiel 40:1-48:35 shows at least part of the Mosaic law will again become effective during the millennium and forever as Israel is concerned.

    3. There will be sinners in the millennial kingdom Isaiah 2:2-4; 11:2-4; 11:3-5; 16:5; 65:20; Psalm 2:6-9; Micah 4:3; Zechariah 14:16-21; 1 Corinthians 15:24:28; Revelation 20:7-10.
    Many will be rebels at heart but keep the civil law and will live through the 1000 years and then rebel with Satan when he is loosed from the pit Revelation 20:1-10.
    Many will be executed during the Millennium because of committing sins worthy of death (Isaiah 11:3-5; 16:5; 65:20).
    There could be no transgression of the law if there was no basis for judgement.
    All of this can be found in Dake's God's Plan For Man; Lesson 50 The Dispensation of Divine Government The Millennium (Revelation 19:11-20:15) pg. 964 point 11 and 12.
    Christ will judge the poor with righteousness and he will smite the earth with his mouth and the wicked shall he slay with the breath of his lips. This is not just the Day of the Lord for Isaiah 16:5 says; And in mercy shall the throne be established and he shall sit it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging and seeking judgment and hasting righteousness.
    Isaiah 65:20; There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.
    The church will execute laws forever as Kings, Priests, and Rulers and we will judge angels as well the world 1 Corinthians 6:2-

    3. I have given you scriptures to prove their will be sacrifices in the millennial kingdom in a prior post.
    I have shown you scriptures to prove there will be civil laws, some from the Old Covenant and said others will be from the New Covenant as well.
    I have shown scriptures that there will be sinners in the millennial kingdom and judgement will be given.
    I have shown scriptures that those sinners in the millennial kingdom that are rebels at heart and live through the millennial kingdom and will be deceived by Satan after the 1000 years and will be destroyed.
    I have given scriptures to prove that Israel will receive the New Covenant of Grace and this will be in the KoH reign.
    You can disagree with me but the scriptures I gave you you cannot overcome.

    4. You do not take into account of the whole context and what the real purpose is of the KoH millennial reign.
    The KoH reign will have the New Covenant of the death, burial, and resurrection for people to be saved and just because certain civil laws and sacrifices etc. will be instituted doesn't mean we will be living the law of Moses under the Old ethic for the New Covenant replaced the Old Covenant at Calvary.

    5. Quit making up stuff that disagrees with the scripture and quit putting words in my mouth and learn exactly the context of what dispensationalists say and believe. Jerry kelso
     
  20. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    In Post # 369 above, you said...

    "We are being trained today for rulership training 2 Timothy 2:12.
    The law will have to be kept which came from Moses law and some will be New Covenant Laws too and the punishment has to according to the law."

    .
     
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