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LDS More False Doctrine Right There in LDS Scripture!
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He didn't, but when you receive Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, the Holy Spirit will come to live inside of you and remake you into an entirely new person. Anyone who doesn't have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to Christ:
Romans 8:9
Now you are not in flesh but in Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you; but if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not of Him
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Why do you falsely assume that I haven't accepted Jesus Christ my your Lord and Savior? I have. And the Holy Spirit does dwell within me.
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Here's my story--
When I was ~6 six years old, I was going through a really rough time in life. I was bogged down in the difficulties of life and in pain this existence can bring. I also felt weighed down for my own shortcomings- that I couldn’t do this or that, that I wasn’t good enough, or that I had done wrong things, even things which brought pain to those I loved. There was so much I regretted, so much I wanted to get away from—part of me even hated myself for all of this. I felt very alone in all this, that no one self could understand what I was going through.
During this time I would frequently go out the backyard swing set for solace to think with hanging upside on the monkey-bar swing for hours, just thinking. Sometimes I would get bogged down in my self-hatred. Sometimes I would say a prayer to fight off those demonic feelings. I wonder the purpose of it all. On one such day, a song came into my mind that I had learned at church that day:
“Heavenly Father, are you really there?
And do you hear and answer ev'ry child's prayer?
Some say that heaven is far away,
But I feel it close around me as I pray.
Heavenly Father, I remember now
Something that Jesus told disciples long ago:
"Suffer the children to come to me."
Father, in prayer I'm coming now to thee.”
I remembered that song. I remembered the story of Jesus which went along with it. I remembered how He asked specifically for the little children to come to Him, and blessed them. I remember how He lived, prayed, and died to understand all of us and to save us from evil. He suffered for all of it—He understood all of it—even the littlest thing. Like Jesus understood exactly what it was like to have a sister-with-a-temper! He also understood the more complicated things I was going through. And there was a reason for it! The end of all this struggle was so glorious—such amazing great things to come! God hadn’t forgotten about me or anything- I was His child- He cared beyond measure.
I sat on that swing and just poured my heart out in prayer. I can’t express the relief to have someone to talk to- to have someone to understand. That feelings of welcome and love….And then, to have someone to that could Heal on top of it—that knit up my heart so much that day. To express it in words…. “the best hug ever!” is what my little self called it, and those are probably the best words I still have at ~28 (or however old I am now).
As I grew up more, I had more moments and wavering and certainty in faith, and in God. I knew God was the person whom Understood everything I was going though: my wishes, my desires, my pains…even if at points I got straight “F’s” in remembering to talk/rely on Him. God is the most understanding, loving, comforting, person in the universe, and I’ve never been scared of Him. That idea of being scared of Him… yeah, it honestly had never occurred to me (save guilty-child moments
). Ok, well that’s my story.
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What happened to the gift of discernment the priesthood holders were supposed to have?
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you mean you think Joseph should have known? perhaps he did but allowed Hurlbut to condemn himself, why does God let us do anything
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Here's my story--
When I was ~6 six years old, I was going through a really rough time in life. I was bogged down in the difficulties of life and in pain this existence can bring. I also felt weighed down for my own shortcomings- that I couldn’t do this or that, that I wasn’t good enough, or that I had done wrong things, even things which brought pain to those I loved. There was so much I regretted, so much I wanted to get away from—part of me even hated myself for all of this. I felt very alone in all this, that no one self could understand what I was going through.
During this time I would frequently go out the backyard swing set for solace to think with hanging upside on the monkey-bar swing for hours, just thinking. Sometimes I would get bogged down in my self-hatred. Sometimes I would say a prayer to fight off those demonic feelings. I wonder the purpose of it all. On one such day, a song came into my mind that I had learned at church that day:
“Heavenly Father, are you really there?
And do you hear and answer ev'ry child's prayer?
Some say that heaven is far away,
But I feel it close around me as I pray.
Heavenly Father, I remember now
Something that Jesus told disciples long ago:
"Suffer the children to come to me."
Father, in prayer I'm coming now to thee.”
I remembered that song. I remembered the story of Jesus which went along with it. I remembered how He asked specifically for the little children to come to Him, and blessed them. I remember how He lived, prayed, and died to understand all of us and to save us from evil. He suffered for all of it—He understood all of it—even the littlest thing. Like Jesus understood exactly what it was like to have a sister-with-a-temper! He also understood the more complicated things I was going through. And there was a reason for it! The end of all this struggle was so glorious—such amazing great things to come! God hadn’t forgotten about me or anything- I was His child- He cared beyond measure.
I sat on that swing and just poured my heart out in prayer. I can’t express the relief to have someone to talk to- to have someone to understand. That feelings of welcome and love….And then, to have someone to that could Heal on top of it—that knit up my heart so much that day. To express it in words…. “the best hug ever!” is what my little self called it, and those are probably the best words I still have at ~28 (or however old I am now).
As I grew up more, I had more moments and wavering and certainty in faith, and in God. I knew God was the person whom Understood everything I was going though: my wishes, my desires, my pains…even if at points I got straight “F’s” in remembering to talk/rely on Him. God is the most understanding, loving, comforting, person in the universe, and I’ve never been scared of Him. That idea of being scared of Him… yeah, it honestly had never occurred to me (save guilty-child moments
Ok, well that’s my story.
Hi Jane,
I understand and appreciate your story. I myself was not raised in a family who said anything about God, one way or another. I didn't know if God existed, but one day He supernaturally revealed to me that He did. He didn't immediately tell me who He was but instead He allowed me to go through a lot of difficult trials while I searched for Him. During that time, I developed an understanding of Him that I believed was the truth. I talked to Him all of the time and knew His love, as I felt it to be at the time, intimately. His mercy and grace were truly upon me.
One day though, as the trials wound together, He brought me to understand something clearly; what I was believing about Him was not correct and that I needed to put away my cherished beliefs and fully trust Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. You know what? I didn't want to do it!
With all of my heart I believed that I had an intimate relationship with God and I didn't want to give that up for an unknown.
The thing is, God made it very clear to me that if I didn't give my life to Jesus Christ, I would be willfully deluding myself. I didn't want to do that so I gave up my beliefs to receive His Son. When this happened, nothing changed immediately, but things started to slowly change in me. When I was baptized, God poured out His Spirit..I went into the water as one person and came out as another, the weight of the world lifted from my shoulders. When I came out of the water I could sense His presence, and He has allowed me to do that ever since I was baptized.
Jane, I know what it is like to be wrong about who God is, even having an intimate love relationship with Him but not truly knowing Him. I didn't truly know Him until I truly received Christ. Paul talked about receiving another Jesus that he didn't preach in 2 Corinthians 11:4. You grew up in this religion and they have preached to you a Christ that Paul didn't preach. A Jesus that cannot save you. The blood of Jesus Christ can cover your sins, and without it, God cannot forgive you for them. God has let you know He loves you in His mercy, but He is letting you know right now that you don't really know Him and that you desperately need to receive His Son, who died for our sins on a cross, so that you can be forgiven and have eternal life. He wants you to know that you can truly have that intimate love relationship with Him that we all desire.
You became aware of God as a child and embraced the belief system set in front of you. It's time to put away childish things:
2 Corinthians 11:4
When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things
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Oh, you think Joseph Smith is God? He didn't let Mr. Hurlbut condemn himself. If Hurlbut was condemned at the end of his life, he was condemned already because he didn't believe in Christ. But you haven't provided any proof that Mr. Hurlbut sinned those specific sins or that he sinned an unforgivable sin.
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That's awesome. I'm very happy for you.
You and I disagree on some theological matters. I believe the church I attend is the one Christ established, and you believe yours is. But despite these differences, your love and relationship with Christ is a real thing. It's amazing thing that should be relished in. I acknowledge that and am very happy for you. I would NEVER insult anyone's relationship with Christ as "childish" or ask them to put it away. Never. Cherish it. That is my love to you.
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Hi Jane,
Love according to the bible isn't what popular culture, or even our religious communities these days have made it out to be.
Hebrews 12:6-7
For whom the Lord loves He chastens,
And scourges every son whom He receives
If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten?
Gods love not only comforts, it also chastens. And for us, we aren't loving God just by having positive feelings about Him. The bible spells out clearly that love to God is to obey His commands. We are also commanded in the bible to preach the word:
2 Timothy 4:2
Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching
It would be the least loving thing that I could do to spare your feelings and say that you have a relationship with Jesus Christ, when you don't. It would actually be wicked of me to say that to you.
We also aren't talking about theological differences. Mormons use the same words as Christians do, but they have entirely different meanings. When I talk about God the Father I am talking about the eternal and only true God. When you talk about God the Father you are talking about an exalted man from the planet Kolob. These are not apples and oranges, these are apples and ottomans.
You are trapped in false religion Jane, with just enough Jesus to make you comfortable but not enough to save your soul. I am loving you by saying that, not hating you or insulting you. You may not believe that, just as I didn't believe it, but that doesn't make it any less true, or your need for the true and living God any less urgent. I pray that you will open your heart to Him to receive the real Jesus who died to save your soul. Not a created being, but the true and only Savior, who from eternity past has always been and always will be God.
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Criteria for a true prophet with biblical references:
1) A true prophet does not lie. His predictions will be fulfilled. (Jer. 28:9, "But the prophet who prophesies peace will be recognized as one truly sent by the LORD only if his prediction comes true.")
2) A true prophet prophesies in the name of the Lord, not in his own name. (2 Pet. 1:21, "For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.")
3) A true prophet does not give his own private interpretation of prophecy. (2 Pet. 1:20, "Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation.")
4) A true prophet points out the sins and transgressions of the people against God. (Isa. 58:1, "Shout it aloud, do not hold back. Raise your voice like a trumpet. Declare to my people their rebellion and to the house of Jacob their sins.)
5) A true prophet is to warn the people of God's coming judgment. (Examples of judgment such as portrayed in Isa. 24:20, "The earth reels like a drunkard, it sways like a hut in the wind; so heavy upon it is the guilt of its rebellion that it falls --never to rise again." and Rev. 14:6, 7, "Then I saw another angel flying in midair, and he had the eternal gospel to proclaim to those who live on the earth --to every nation, tribe, language and people. He said in a loud voice, 'Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come. Worship him who made the heavens, the earth, the sea and the springs of water.'").
6) A true prophet edifies the church, counsels and advises it in religious matters. (1 Cor. 14:3, 4, "But everyone who prophesies speaks to men for their strengthening, encouragement and comfort. He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church.")
7) A true prophet's words will be in absolute harmony with the words of the prophets that have preceded him. (Isa. 8:20, "To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, they have no light of dawn.")
8) A true prophet recognizes the incarnation of Jesus Christ. (1 John 4:1-3, "Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.")
9) A true prophet can be recognized by the results of his work. (Matt. 7:16-20, "By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.")
10) A true prophet acts in accordance with the will and approval of God. (Deut. 18:19, "If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account.")
Do you agree with this?
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fatboys
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And I would say that it is pure mainstream Christianity arrogance to declare that mormons don't know Christ. The name of our church is not the church of Peter. It's name is not Calvinism or penticostal or Methodist. It is the church of Jesus Christ. Even with your experiences the only thing you Christ. That is all you know. There is much more to know about the truths he taught. God told me that Joseph smith and the book or Mormon are what we say they are.
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Did God 'tell' you this through his word the bible or some other way?
What if I was to claim that God 'told' me that Donald Trump was a prophet? Could we test this?
What if God 'told' me Joseph Smith was not a prophet but a fraud. Can me and you both be right, or is one of us wrong?
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And the free masonary, the lies, do you know some of the ages of his youngest wives when he married them? Was about his death, why did he have a gun?
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Just looking at James 1:5 and looking at the context:
- "James, a bond-servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes who are dispersed abroad, greetings.
- Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials,
- knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance.
- And let endurance have its perfect result, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.
- But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all men generously and without reproach, and it will be given to him.
- But let him ask in faith without any doubting, for the one who doubts is like the surf of the sea driven and tossed by the wind.
- For let not that man expect that he will receive anything from the Lord,
- being a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways."
How many people are there today who claim to be a prophet? Quite a few I imagine, should we use verse 5 to see if all of them are prophets?
If I tell you that God has just appeared to me and given me further revelation, maybe the Book of Mormon part 2, do you have to pray for wisdom or could you tell another way that the Book of Mormon part 2 is not God's word?
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Maybe we can apply 1 Thesis 5:21 to some of Joseph Smiths beliefs:
"God is in the still small voice. In all these affidavits, indictments, it is all of the devil--all corruption. Come on! ye prosecutors! ye false swearers! All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava! for I will come out on the top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet . . . " (History of the Church, vol. 6, p. 408-409). Click here to see this quote in context.
"I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book," (History of the Church, vol. 4, p. 461).
". . .I prophesy in the name of the Lord God of Israel, unless the United States redress the wrongs committed upon the Saints in the state of Missouri and punish the crimes committed by her officers that in a few years the government will be utterly overthrown and wasted, and there will not be so much as a potsherd left . . . " (History of the Church, vol. 5, p. 394). Click here to see this quote in context.
"A question may be asked, ‘Will mothers have their children in eternity?' Yes! Yes! Mothers, you shall have your children," (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p. 10). "Eternity is full of thrones, upon which dwell thousands of children reigning on thrones of glory, with not one cubit added to their stature," (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p. 10).
“We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see. These are incomprehensible ideas to some, but they are simple. It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the Character of God, and to know that we may converse with him as one man converses with another, and that he was once a man like us; yea, that God the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did, and I will show it from the Bible” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp.345-346. Italics in original).
"Hence, the doctrine of a plurality of Gods is as prominent in the Bible as any other doctrine. It is all over the face of the Bible . . . Paul says there are Gods many and Lords many . . . but to us there is but one God--that is pertaining to us; and he is in all and through all," (History of the Church, vol. 6, p. 474). "In the beginning, the head of the Gods called a council of the Gods; and they came together and concocted a plan to create the world and people it," (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p. 5).
"I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods," (Teachings of Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 370).
"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted Man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens . . . I say, if you were to see him to-day, you would see him like a man in form--like yourselves, in all the person, image, and very form as a man . . . it is necessary that we should understand the character and being of God, and how he came to be so; for I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity, I will refute that idea, and will take away and do away the veil, so that you may see . . . and that he was once a man like us; yea, that God himself the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth the same as Jesus Christ himself did." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p. 3).
"The greatest responsibility in this world that God has laid upon us is to seek after our dead," (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p. 7).
I know that Mormons get very upset when we say they they follow a cult and Joseph Smith was a false prophet.
From the above quotes can you understand why people think Joseph Smith was a false prophet?
Please let us know if we are wrong about Joseph Smith?
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