LDS More False Doctrine Right There in LDS Scripture!

[Rescued One]

*sigh*

37 Abraham received concubines, and they bore him children; and it was accounted unto him for righteousness, because they were given unto him, and he abode in my law; as Isaac also and Jacob did none other things than that which they were commanded; and because they did none other things than that which they were commanded, they have entered into their exaltation, according to the promises, and sit upon thrones, and are not angels but are gods.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Correction to the title here: "Here is a random verse taken out of scriptural and theological context with zero writing done by the OP".

 

[Ironhold]

*sigh*

37 Abraham received concubines, and they bore him children; and it was accounted unto him for righteousness, because they were given unto him, and he abode in my law; as Isaac also and Jacob did none other things than that which they were commanded; and because they did none other things than that which they were commanded, they have entered into their exaltation, according to the promises, and sit upon thrones, and are not angels but are gods.

What book and chapter is this even from?

No source citation = no evidence this passage even exists.

 

[withwonderingawe]

It's D&C 132

It is comparing Abraham's wives which were 'given' to him to David's 'taking' of Uriah's wife. David lost his exaltation because of it and Abraham kept his.

 

[Rescued One]

Men don't become angels or Gods.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Men don't become angels or Gods.

Do you not believe that Christ's disciples become joint-heirs with Him? That's the doctrine you're disagreeing with here.

 

[BigDaddy4]

It's D&C 132

It is comparing Abraham's wives which were 'given' to him to David's 'taking' of Uriah's wife. David lost his exaltation because of it and Abraham kept his.

David, a man after God's heart, ["... a man after my own heart; he will do everything I want him to do.‘” (Acts 13:22)], who is a part of Jesus' earthly lineage, lost his exaltation?? That's some wild speculation going on there...

 

[BigDaddy4]

Do you not believe that Christ's disciples become joint-heirs with Him? That's the doctrine you're disagreeing with here.

Becoming a joint-heir does not mean one becomes an angel, a god, or god-like.

 

[withwonderingawe]

David, a man after God's heart, ["... a man after my own heart; he will do everything I want him to do.‘” (Acts 13:22)], who is a part of Jesus' earthly lineage, lost his exaltation?? That's some wild speculation going on there...

Yes, his soul will not be left in hell but

1 John 3:15
15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

David's sin of adultery led to him committing murder.

 

[DJItalianspur]

Correction to the title here: "Here is a random verse taken out of scriptural and theological context with zero writing done by the OP".

Ok, it maybe random and taken out of context but what if...
God the father, no sorry the Lord Jesus, no sorry let me change it again God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ appeared (with no witnesses present of course) and told our author the post this.

What if our author stared telling lies and then started to commit adultery on a mass scales and then start to implement free mason practises?

Let guess, we would not question this but we would just accept this right?

No? So why the same with Joseph Smith and his false teaching?

The bible does give a criteria for a false prophet, should we not apply the criteria to Joseph Smith?

 

[Jane_Doe]

Ok, it maybe random and taken out of context but what if...
God the father, no sorry the Lord Jesus, no sorry let me change it again God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ appeared (with no witnesses present of course) and told our author the post this.

What if our author stared telling lies and then started to commit adultery on a mass scales and then start to implement free mason practises?

Let guess, we would not question this but we would just accept this right?

I think you're having issues getting your point across here. And how does any of that relate to the random, out of context, devoid of citation OP?

 

[withwonderingawe]

Ok, it maybe random and taken out of context but what if...
God the father, no sorry the Lord Jesus, no sorry let me change it again God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ appeared (with no witnesses present of course) and told our author the post this.

What if our author stared telling lies and then started to commit adultery on a mass scales and then start to implement free mason practises?

Let guess, we would not question this but we would just accept this right?

No? So why the same with Joseph Smith and his false teaching?

The bible does give a criteria for a false prophet, should we not apply the criteria to Joseph Smith?

 

[DJItalianspur]

I think you're having issues getting your point across here. And how does any of that relate to the random, out of context, devoid of citation OP?

Well it was a little sarcastic, apologies, my point is that looking at the life and stories of Jospeh Smith it is also a bit random do you not think?

You see the starting point is not the false doctrine in the Book of Mormon and the other books, and what the current leader of the lds is saying (which I assume will have to be made into another book one day?).

The starting point is why did Joseph Smith teach these things, how did he manage to convince anyone. Can you look at his life and say he was a godly example?

As the testimony of Joseph Smith does not stack up, it is clear that the books he wrote (well partly wrote and mostly copied as history shows) are not going to stack up.

Most people do not believe the claims of the wars in the America's because of the facts and also some mormons now claim they are not historical facts.

So why would Joseph Smith print this?
This is the starting point. Most mormons I know want to avoid the testimony and fruit of Jospeh Smith, why do think this is?

 

[Jane_Doe]

Well it was a little sarcastic, apologies, my point is that looking at the life and stories of Jospeh Smith it is also a bit random do you not think?

You see the starting point is not the false doctrine in the Book of Mormon and the other books, and what the current leader of the lds is saying (which I assume will have to be made into another book one day?).

The starting point is why did Joseph Smith teach these things, how did he manage to convince anyone. Can you look at his life and say he was a godly example?

As the testimony of Joseph Smith does not stack up, it is clear that the books he wrote (well partly wrote and mostly copied as history shows) are not going to stack up.

Most people do not believe the claims of the wars in the America's because of the facts and also some mormons now claim they are not historical facts.

So why would Joseph Smith print this?
This is the starting point. Most mormons I know want to avoid the testimony and fruit of Jospeh Smith, why do think this is?

I'm still not sure this has any relation to the OP. As these are unrelated questions, I'm think it might be best for you to start a different thread where we can focus on your questions. I'd be happy to talk about them with you, I just think a new thread would be the best venue.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Well it was a little sarcastic, apologies, my point is that looking at the life and stories of Jospeh Smith it is also a bit random do you not think?

You see the starting point is not the false doctrine in the Book of Mormon and the other books, and what the current leader of the lds is saying (which I assume will have to be made into another book one day?).

The starting point is why did Joseph Smith teach these things, how did he manage to convince anyone. Can you look at his life and say he was a godly example?

As the testimony of Joseph Smith does not stack up, it is clear that the books he wrote (well partly wrote and mostly copied as history shows) are not going to stack up.

Most people do not believe the claims of the wars in the America's because of the facts and also some mormons now claim they are not historical facts.

So why would Joseph Smith print this?
This is the starting point. Most mormons I know want to avoid the testimony and fruit of Jospeh Smith, why do think this is?

(Answering these here, despite my better judgement)

Addressing a common misconception: LDS do not worship Joseph Smith- he was a sinner. Rather, we are disciples of Jesus Christ. Joseph Smith was a imperfect servant of Christ, just like all other of His servants (Paul, Moses, Peter, etc). Therefore, trying to convince a LDS person that Joseph Smith was a sinner is rather silly: we already acknowledge that. Joseph Smith is not the center of LDS beliefs, just as Paul and Moses are not. Christ is.

Now, if you want to know why an LDS person is LDS, the answer to that is Jesus Christ. Not Joseph Smith. If you want to ask an LDS person how they are convicted of the Truthfulness of Christ's work (done directly and those done via servants), to that we point to the Holy Spirit. It is the Holy Spirit which bears witness of what is Truth.

 

[DJItalianspur]

Ok the original post is about the Mormon belief in many Gods. Let me ask some questions regarding this then.

Do you believe there are many Gods?
What about the current leader of the lds what does he believe?
Linked to the above, if he changes his belief on this and applies this to the church how does this affect your belief?
Do you think the bible (not Joseph Smith or his followers books) teaches there is more than one God?
Can you think of any bible scripture that may contradict the belief in more than one God?
Can you directly answer this or do you have to answer inline with current lds views?

Is this more in line with the current post and are you ok to answer?

 

[Jane_Doe]

Ok the original post is about the Mormon belief in many Gods.

Actually, it's about Abraham, Issac, and Jacob.

Do you believe there are many Gods?

LDS, like mainstream Christians, believe that there is ONE God.
LDS, like mainstream Christians, believe that this ONE God consists of multiple persons.
The difference between the two belief systems lies in the HOW these multiple persons are viewed as being one God.

What about the current leader of the lds what does he believe?

You're welcome to listen to his own words: Testimony of Thomas S. Monson

Linked to the above, if he changes his belief on this and applies this to the church how does this affect your belief?

I think you are confused here (you're question doesn't really make sense). I'm guessing that you do not understand LDS testimony and continuing revelation. Would you like me to explain those?

Do you think the bible (not Joseph Smith or his followers books) teaches there is more than one God?

The Bible confirms the LDS view of God (and yes there is ONE).

Can you think of any bible scripture that may contradict the belief in more than one God?

I'm not arguing for there being more than one God....

Can you directly answer this or do you have to answer inline with current lds views?

You're giving the impression that you're trying to set up a loaded "gotcha" questioning line. Is that your goal here?

Is this more in line with the current post and are you ok to answer?

I am ok answering any question. I just thought the best venue for previous questions would be a new thread, and then replying anyways.

 

[DJItalianspur]

(Answering these here, despite my better judgement)

Addressing a common misconception: LDS do not worship Joseph Smith- he was a sinner. Rather, we are disciples of Jesus Christ. Joseph Smith was a imperfect servant of Christ, just like all other of His servants (Paul, Moses, Peter, etc). Therefore, trying to convince a LDS person that Joseph Smith was a sinner is rather silly: we already acknowledge that. Joseph Smith is not the center of LDS beliefs, just as Paul and Moses are not. Christ is.

Now, if you want to know why an LDS person is LDS, the answer to that is Jesus Christ. Not Joseph Smith. If you want to ask an LDS person how they are convicted of the Truthfulness of Christ's work (done directly and those done via servants), to that we point to the Holy Spirit. It is the Holy Spirit which bears witness of what is Truth.

You are right that Joseph Smith was imperfect, but you are well off the mark by comparing him to Paul, Moses and Peter. Would he not be more like Muhammad (both has revelations only they saw, both were adulteration and claimed it was God's will, both caused wars, both came up with new revelation in books.......) do you believe Muhammad was a prophet?

Can you logically determine this or do you have to ask God to reveal this to you in your heart?

You say Jospeh Smith is not the centre of your beliefs, but are his teachings? Can you not see any major differences in teachings between the lds and the bible?

What did Christ teach us about false teachers?
Can we apply them to muhammed?
Can we apply them to Joseph Smith?

 

[DJItalianspur]

Actually, it's about Abraham, Issac, and Jacob.

LDS, like mainstream Christians, believe that there is ONE God.
LDS, like mainstream Christians, believe that this ONE God consists of multiple persons.
The difference between the two belief systems lies in the HOW these multiple persons are viewed as being one God.

You're welcome to listen to his own words: Testimony of Thomas S. Monson

I think you are confused here (you're question doesn't really make sense). I'm guessing that you do not understand LDS testimony and continuing revelation. Would you like me to explain those?

The Bible confirms the LDS view of God (and yes there is ONE).

I'm not arguing for there being more than one God....

You're giving the impression that you're trying to set up a loaded "gotcha" questioning line. Is that your goal here?

I am ok answering any question. I just thought the best venue for previous questions would be a new thread, and then replying anyways.

So mormons only believe in one God? maybe the below is not true then? Perhaps taken out of context?

• Joseph Smith taught: "I will prove that the world is wrong, by showing what God is...God himself was once as we are now and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret...I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.345);
• Joseph Smith continues: "God himself...is a man like unto one of yourselves...God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth...You have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves" (Times and Seasons, vol.5, pp.613-614); "Here then is eternal life---to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves...the same as all Gods have done before you...To inherit the same power, the same glory and the same exaltation, until you arrive at the station of a God" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.346-347).
• Brigham Young taught: "He [God] ...was once a man in mortal flesh as we are, and is now an exalted being...It appears ridiculous to the world, under their darkened and erroneous traditions, that God was once been a finite being" (Journal of Discourses, vol.7, p.333); "The Lord created you and me for the purpose of becoming Gods like himself" (Journal of Discourses, vol.3, p.93).
• Here is Joseph Smith's revelation about Mormons attaining to the celestial kingdom: "These are they who received the testimony of Jesus, and believed on his name and were baptized...who have received of his fullness, and of his glory...they are gods" (Doctrine and Covenants 76: 51-58).
• James Talmage explains: "We believe in a God who is Himself progressive...whose perfection consists in eternal advancement...a Being who has attained His exalted state"(A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.430, 1952).
• Heber C. Kimbal wrote: "We shall go back to our Father and God, who is connected with one who is still farther back; and this Father is connected with one still farther back, and so on" (Journal of Discourses, vol.5, p.19); "our God is a natural man...where did he get his knowledge from? From his father, just as we get our knowledge from our earthly parents" (Journal of Discourses, vol.8, p.211).
• Orson Pratt wrote: "The Gods who dwell in heaven...were once in a fallen state...they were exalted also, from fallen men to celestial Gods" (The Seer, p.23); "our Father in Heaven was begotten on a previous heavenly world by His Father; "He was begotten by a still more ancient Father; and so on from generation to generation, from one heavenly world to another" (The Seer, p.132).
• Milton R. Hunter wrote: "God the Eternal Father was once a mortal man who passed through a school of earth life similar to that through which we are now passing. He became a God" (The Gospel Through the Ages, p.104);"there was a time when the Deity was much less powerful than He is today...He grew in experience and continued to grow until He attained the status of Godhood. In other words, He became a God by absolute obedience..." (The Gospel Through the Ages, p.114-115).
• Bruce McConkie states: "God himself, the Father of us all, is a glorious, exalted, immortal, resurrected man" (Mormon Doctrine, p.642-643); "God...is a personal Being, a holy and exalted man...an anthropomorphic entity" (Mormon Doctrine, p.250); "as the Prophet [Joseph Smith] also taught, 'there is a God above the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ'" (Mormon Doctrine, p.322, 1966).
• Joseph Fielding Smith stated: "God is an exalted man...our Father in Heaven at one time passed through a life and death and is an exalted man...The Prophet [Joseph Smith] taught that our Father had a Father and so on...promises are made to us that we may become like him" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol.1, p.10-12).

 

[Jane_Doe]

Can you logically determine this or do you have to ask God to reveal this to you in your heart?

James 1:5 "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him."

I ask God and have His Spirit testify of Truth.

You say Jospeh Smith is not the centre of your beliefs, but are his teachings?

This is a lot like asking "Paul is not the centre of your beliefs, but are his teachings?".

Can you not see any major differences in teachings between the lds and the bible?

There are no differences.
There are major differences between LDS beliefs and Catholic beliefs and Methodist beliefs and Calvinist beliefs, and all combos within there.

What did Christ teach us about false teachers?

LDS very much acknowledge Christ's warnings about false teachers. There is just disagreement over which teachers are the false ones. It is the same within mainstream Christianity- people can't agree on which teachers are the false ones, leading to tens thousands of churches.