LDS More False Doctrine Right There in LDS Scripture!

[Jane_Doe]

So mormons only believe in one God? maybe the below is not true then? Perhaps taken out of context?

• Joseph Smith taught: "I will prove that the world is wrong, by showing what God is...God himself was once as we are now and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret...I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.345);
• Joseph Smith continues: "God himself...is a man like unto one of yourselves...God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth...You have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves" (Times and Seasons, vol.5, pp.613-614); "Here then is eternal life---to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves...the same as all Gods have done before you...To inherit the same power, the same glory and the same exaltation, until you arrive at the station of a God" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.346-347).
• Brigham Young taught: "He [God] ...was once a man in mortal flesh as we are, and is now an exalted being...It appears ridiculous to the world, under their darkened and erroneous traditions, that God was once been a finite being" (Journal of Discourses, vol.7, p.333); "The Lord created you and me for the purpose of becoming Gods like himself" (Journal of Discourses, vol.3, p.93).
• Here is Joseph Smith's revelation about Mormons attaining to the celestial kingdom: "These are they who received the testimony of Jesus, and believed on his name and were baptized...who have received of his fullness, and of his glory...they are gods" (Doctrine and Covenants 76: 51-58).
• James Talmage explains: "We believe in a God who is Himself progressive...whose perfection consists in eternal advancement...a Being who has attained His exalted state"(A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.430, 1952).
• Heber C. Kimbal wrote: "We shall go back to our Father and God, who is connected with one who is still farther back; and this Father is connected with one still farther back, and so on" (Journal of Discourses, vol.5, p.19); "our God is a natural man...where did he get his knowledge from? From his father, just as we get our knowledge from our earthly parents" (Journal of Discourses, vol.8, p.211).
• Orson Pratt wrote: "The Gods who dwell in heaven...were once in a fallen state...they were exalted also, from fallen men to celestial Gods" (The Seer, p.23); "our Father in Heaven was begotten on a previous heavenly world by His Father; "He was begotten by a still more ancient Father; and so on from generation to generation, from one heavenly world to another" (The Seer, p.132).
• Milton R. Hunter wrote: "God the Eternal Father was once a mortal man who passed through a school of earth life similar to that through which we are now passing. He became a God" (The Gospel Through the Ages, p.104);"there was a time when the Deity was much less powerful than He is today...He grew in experience and continued to grow until He attained the status of Godhood. In other words, He became a God by absolute obedience..." (The Gospel Through the Ages, p.114-115).
• Bruce McConkie states: "God himself, the Father of us all, is a glorious, exalted, immortal, resurrected man" (Mormon Doctrine, p.642-643); "God...is a personal Being, a holy and exalted man...an anthropomorphic entity" (Mormon Doctrine, p.250); "as the Prophet [Joseph Smith] also taught, 'there is a God above the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ'" (Mormon Doctrine, p.322, 1966).
• Joseph Fielding Smith stated: "God is an exalted man...our Father in Heaven at one time passed through a life and death and is an exalted man...The Prophet [Joseph Smith] taught that our Father had a Father and so on...promises are made to us that we may become like him" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol.1, p.10-12).

A) Your list here is plagiarism. Please don't steal.

B) Would you like to understand LDS beliefs here? Or are you not interested? (If you're not interested in learning I won't waste either of our time).

 

[DJItalianspur]

James 1:5 "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him."

I ask God and have His Spirit testify of Truth.


This is a lot like asking "Paul is not the centre of your beliefs, but are his teachings?".

There are no differences.
There are major differences between LDS beliefs and Catholic beliefs and Methodist beliefs and Calvinist beliefs, and all combos within there.

LDS very much acknowledge Christ's warnings about false teachers. There is just disagreement over which teachers are the false ones. It is the same within mainstream Christianity- people can't agree on which teachers are the false ones, leading to tens thousands of churches.

 

[DJItalianspur]

A) Your list here is plagiarism. Please don't steal.

B) Would you like to understand LDS beliefs here? Or are you not interested? (If you're not interested in learning I won't waste either of our time).

Your response does not answer the question
Please do not avoid important questions

Would you like to look into Joseph Smiths wicked acts and see if these were inline with the word of God? Or are you not interested?

The difference is I don't think this is wasting time. I know several mormons who has asked questions about Jospeh Smith and free masonary and the lack of freedom in the organisation. Some have become Christians. For me this is not a waste of time.

 

[DJItalianspur]

James 1:5 "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him."

I ask God and have His Spirit testify of Truth.


This is a lot like asking "Paul is not the centre of your beliefs, but are his teachings?".

There are no differences.
There are major differences between LDS beliefs and Catholic beliefs and Methodist beliefs and Calvinist beliefs, and all combos within there.

LDS very much acknowledge Christ's warnings about false teachers. There is just disagreement over which teachers are the false ones. It is the same within mainstream Christianity- people can't agree on which teachers are the false ones, leading to tens thousands of churches.

So if you follow James 1:5 it isn't wisdom God gives?
So we don't need to follow our hearts when determining if the Koran or Book of Mormon is true?

Yes Paul did receive revelation. Some people questioned him, and he defended this by his lifestyle. Joseph Smith couldn't do this with the evil he committed (he also claimed it was Gods will)

When you learn about this does wisdom not teach you anything here?

None of the denominations follow Joseph Smith only one group does, however many follow Paul's teachings

Can the lds name one false prophet then? Compare this prophet with Joseph Smith?

I could start with Muhammed. Maybe you can name a false prophet for me?

 

[Jane_Doe]

Your response does not answer the question
Please do not avoid important questions

I'm not avoiding the question, I'm asking first if you want to LISTEN to the answer. If you want to listen, I'll spend the time typing up the answer, you can listen, and we're talk about it. If you don't want to listen, then me typing is a waste of your time and mine.

Would you like to look into Joseph Smiths wicked acts and see if these were inline with the word of God? Or are you not interested?

As I discussed previously I already acknowledge that Joseph Smith was a sinner and the effect that has on my faith.

The difference is I don't think this is wasting time. I know several mormons who has asked questions about Jospeh Smith and free masonary and the lack of freedom in the organisation. Some have become Christians. For me this is not a waste of time.

Are you interested in listening to what I actually believe?
Are just interested in a "DJItalianspur is right and everyone else is wrong" soapbox?

I'm game for the first option, where we talk and listen to each other. The second option is a waste of time because neither of us will listen.

 

[Jane_Doe]

So if you follow James 1:5 it isn't wisdom God gives?

Yes.

So we don't need to follow our hearts when determining if the Koran or Book of Mormon is true?

When you learn about this does wisdom not teach you anything here?

I'm not sure what you are asking here.

None of the denominations follow Joseph Smith only one group does, however many follow Paul's teachings

+30,000 (including LDS). These groups disagree on such issues as:
How many books are in the Bible?
What extra-Biblical sources should be acknowledged as authoritative?
Does Christ have a personal representative here on the Earth, and if so who?
What is required for salvation?
And many others.

I could start with Muhammed.

I'm going to be blunt here: I am not willing to discuss Islam today. I have friends whom are deeply affected by Mr. Trump's blind Islamophobia. I do not know if you exhibit Islamophobia too, but I'm not willing to risk it today. I'm shutting down any comments you might make in regards to Islam. It is just too much of a loaded painful topic right now.

 

[withwonderingawe]

What if our author stared telling lies and then started to commit adultery ......

Well if a man did that then we would have to look to 1 John 2

"He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."

Now if you are referring to Joseph Smith he did not commit adultery. The difference between being 'given' and 'taking'. There were Saul's wives who were given to David by the Prophet Nathan and then there was Uriah's wife who he took.

2 Sam 11 "And David sent messengers, and took her; and she came in unto him, and he lay with her; ..."

In every case I've read Joseph was in the situation where he was given a wife. With the exception of the first one all of his plural wives happened within the the last 3 years of his life. With his first plural wife her parents gave her to him, he got such a backlash from those around him he released her from the vow and she married someone else. We don't know how his wife Emma really felt about it because she never spoke about the marriage. Then 3 years before he died he was commanded once again to begin plural marriage. He didn't try to woo them, no romance at all. He would teach the doctrine to a small group of people and then ask for a hand in marriage from parents or a brother. They would pray about it together with the women involved who could say no and then she would be given in marriage. His second plural wife was given by her brother, there does seem to be some sexual relationship however there were no children. She later married Brigham Young and had five children all of whom died and then she died at the age of 35 from breast cancer. Joseph married Brigham Young's 56 year old widowed sister and Brigham did the sealing. There is no evidence of a sexual relationship between them. Today she would have been sealed to her husband who had passed away. Each marriage has it's story, some for were for time and eternity mean in this life so they would have had sexual relationships. However a good many of them were for Eternity only which meant there was no sexual relationship. With all the DNA studies which have been done they have not found one single child that they can claim came from one of these marriages.

 

[brightlights]

*sigh*

37 Abraham received concubines, and they bore him children; and it was accounted unto him for righteousness, because they were given unto him, and he abode in my law; as Isaac also and Jacob did none other things than that which they were commanded; and because they did none other things than that which they were commanded, they have entered into their exaltation, according to the promises, and sit upon thrones, and are not angels but are gods.

I know that this is lifted from its context, but is this passage saying that Abraham only ever did what God commanded him to do? Any cursory reading of Abraham's life will reveal this to be false.

 

[Jane_Doe]

I know that this is lifted from its context, but is this passage saying that Abraham only ever did what God commanded him to do? Any cursory reading of Abraham's life will reveal this to be false.

Understanding this passage requires a fairly in-depth study of LDS beliefs. All the more reason not to take it out of context.

(Side note: cool avatar)

 

[withwonderingawe]

DJ; The difference is I don't think this is wasting time.


I would like to know if you would really like to hear the other side before I spend any more time answering your questions, they are good questions but why waste my time if you are not really interested in the answers.

 

[Rescued One]

I know that this is lifted from its context, but is this passage saying that Abraham only ever did what God commanded him to do? Any cursory reading of Abraham's life will reveal this to be false.

In order to become a god and live in Heavenly Father's presence, Mormons have to obey all the commandments (they like to argue this point). Repentance is to be sorry, make restitution, and obey the commandment that that they broke.

However, you just brought to my attention what that verse really says in plain English.


3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
Articles of Faith 1

28 I am the Lord thy God, and will give unto thee the law of my Holy Priesthood, as was ordained by me and my Father before the world was.

29 Abraham received all things, whatsoever he received, by revelation and commandment, by my word, saith the Lord, and hath entered into his exaltation and sitteth upon his throne.

30 Abraham received promises concerning his seed, and of the fruit of his loins—from whose loins ye are, namely, my servant Joseph—which were to continue so long as they were in the world; and as touching Abraham and his seed, out of the world they should continue; both in the world and out of the world should they continue as innumerable as the stars; or, if ye were to count the sand upon the seashore ye could not number them.

31 This promise is yours also, because ye are of Abraham, and the promise was made unto Abraham; and by this law is the continuation of the works of my Father, wherein he glorifieth himself.

32 Go ye, therefore, and do the works of Abraham; enter ye into my law and ye shall be saved.

33 But if ye enter not into my law ye cannot receive the promise of my Father, which he made unto Abraham.

34 God commanded Abraham, and Sarah gave Hagar to Abraham to wife. And why did she do it? Because this was the law; and from Hagar sprang many people. This, therefore, was fulfilling, among other things, the promises.

35 Was Abraham, therefore, under condemnation? Verily I say unto you, Nay; for I, the Lord, commanded it.

36 Abraham was commanded to offer his son Isaac; nevertheless, it was written: Thou shalt not kill. Abraham, however, did not refuse, and it was accounted unto him for righteousness.

37 Abraham received concubines, and they bore him children; and it was accounted unto him for righteousness, because they were given unto him, and he abode in my law; as Isaac also and Jacob did none other things than that which they were commanded; and because they did none other things than that which they were commanded, they have entered into their exaltation, according to the promises, and sit upon thrones, and are not angels but are gods.

38 David also received many wives and concubines, and also Solomon and Moses my servants, as also many others of my servants, from the beginning of creation until this time; and in nothing did they sin save in those things which they received not of me.
Click Here for More Context

 

[withwonderingawe]

I know that this is lifted from its context, but is this passage saying that Abraham only ever did what God commanded him to do? Any cursory reading of Abraham's life will reveal this to be false.

The passage comes from our Doctrine and Covenants sec 132. It explains the law of plural marriage and why it was okay for Abraham and others to practice it while in the New Testament the law seems to one wife only (at least for Bishops). In the Book of Mormon there is a command of one wife only also, those who do are considered adulterers. However there is a vague reference to the practice being sanctioned in 4th Nephi after Jesus appears to them and establishes the New Covenant. Joseph Smith seems to have gone to the Lord with a 'how come?' question and then got more than he ever thought he would.

I'm sure Abraham was not a perfect man but his faith was and that is why he was blessed.

 

[brightlights]

I'm sure Abraham was not a perfect man but his faith was and that is why he was blessed.

Abraham's faith failed on many occasions. Where was his faith when Sarai was in Pharaoh's bedroom?

 

[Rescued One]

So if you follow James 1:5 it isn't wisdom God gives?
So we don't need to follow our hearts when determining if the Koran or Book of Mormon is true?

Compare the messages of the Doctrine and Covenants and the Koran to what the Bible already says.

Jeremiah 17
9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

 

[Rescued One]

I'm sure Abraham was not a perfect man but his faith was and that is why he was blessed.

Per Mormonism, faith isn't all that is required:

3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
Articles of Faith 1

 

[Jane_Doe]

Per Mormonism, faith isn't all that is required:

3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
Articles of Faith 1

And do you think perfect faith sits around and ignoring Christ's commands? I don't think so.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Abraham's faith failed on many occasions. Where was his faith when Sarai was in Pharaoh's bedroom?

The verse is question is talking about Abraham after his death, not before then.

 

[brightlights]

The verse is question is talking about Abraham after his death, not before then.

Huh? Abraham received concubines after his death?

 

[Jane_Doe]

In order to become a god and live in Heavenly Father's presence, Mormons have to obey all the commandments (they like to argue this point). Repentance is to be sorry, make restitution, and obey the commandment that that they broke.

Yes, that is Biblical. When a commandment is broken, we must repent. The alternative (that we may love our sins more than Christ) is not.

3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
Articles of Faith 1

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp/a-of-f/1?lang=eng
Yep, LDS do believe that we need have faith and repent. That's explain in the next verse.

28 I am the Lord thy God, and will give unto thee the law of my Holy Priesthood, as was ordained by me and my Father before the world was.

29 Abraham received all things, whatsoever he received, by revelation and commandment, by my word, saith the Lord, and hath entered into his exaltation and sitteth upon his throne.

30 Abraham received promises concerning his seed, and of the fruit of his loins—from whose loins ye are, namely, my servant Joseph—which were to continue so long as they were in the world; and as touching Abraham and his seed, out of the world they should continue; both in the world and out of the world should they continue as innumerable as the stars; or, if ye were to count the sand upon the seashore ye could not number them.

31 This promise is yours also, because ye are of Abraham, and the promise was made unto Abraham; and by this law is the continuation of the works of my Father, wherein he glorifieth himself.

32 Go ye, therefore, and do the works of Abraham; enter ye into my law and ye shall be saved.

33 But if ye enter not into my law ye cannot receive the promise of my Father, which he made unto Abraham.

34 God commanded Abraham, and Sarah gave Hagar to Abraham to wife. And why did she do it? Because this was the law; and from Hagar sprang many people. This, therefore, was fulfilling, among other things, the promises.

35 Was Abraham, therefore, under condemnation? Verily I say unto you, Nay; for I, the Lord, commanded it.

36 Abraham was commanded to offer his son Isaac; nevertheless, it was written: Thou shalt not kill. Abraham, however, did not refuse, and it was accounted unto him for righteousness.

37 Abraham received concubines, and they bore him children; and it was accounted unto him for righteousness, because they were given unto him, and he abode in my law; as Isaac also and Jacob did none other things than that which they were commanded; and because they did none other things than that which they were commanded, they have entered into their exaltation, according to the promises, and sit upon thrones, and are not angels but are gods.

38 David also received many wives and concubines, and also Solomon and Moses my servants, as also many others of my servants, from the beginning of creation until this time; and in nothing did they sin save in those things which they received not of me.
Click Here for More Context

And I'm not sure why this was randomly posted. Some context would be nice.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Huh? Abraham received concubines after his death?

I was referring Abraham's faith being perfect. I'm not sure Phoebe's purpose in randomly posting other verses (or the original one).