Morality of Church Keylogging

[yeshuaslavejeff]

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[yeshuaslavejeff]

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[RDKirk]

When there's a car wreck, with injuries and fatalities even,
on the news, do you question it ? (I sometimes have, but not usually)

Can YOU prove what you saw on the news last week ?

I might see a news report of a car wreck, no names mentioned, and accept without any further evidence that a car wreck occurred.

If someone tells me that my pastor was drunk and caused the wreck, I'm going to want specific evidence that it was my pastor and that he was drunk.

The fact that hacking occurs, the fact that major businesses are able to purchase accumulated data, the fact that the government can look at specific messages (with the proper court order) does mean that any church is doing it.

You're going to have to provide some specific evidence that a specific church has ever done it with anything other than their own equipment.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

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[yeshuaslavejeff]

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[yeshuaslavejeff]

Generally known nationwide: (worldwide maybe?)
www.timedoctor.com › blog › how-to-successfully-monitor-your-em...

How to Successfully Monitor Employee Internet Usage
Time Doctor makes it incredibly simple for companies to monitor what their employees are doing and track the time they spend on work activities. Track their employees computer activity. Know if someone is passing off idle hours as hours worked. Prevent employees from getting distracted by the internet.
privacyrights.org › consumer-guides › workplace-privacy-and-emplo...

Workplace Privacy and Employee Monitoring | Privacy Rights ...
Mar 1, 1993 - A majority of employers monitor their employees. ... can secretly record your text messages, email, Internet usage, location, contacts, call logs, ...

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

money.com › employer-browsing-data

What Companies Know About Your Browsing History | Money
Aug 9, 2017 - “If you use your email on a company-owned device or even the office wifi ... “Many companies that actively monitor employee email ask new hires to sign ... “I suspect large companies do keep a record, but might not look at the ...
www.business.com › Technology › Technology Solutions

The Best Employee Monitoring Software for 2020 - Business ...
Dec 30, 2019 - This application can monitor your employees undetected, or it can run in transparent ... law when it comes to watching your employees' behavior at work. ... Our coverage also includes reviews of the best internet management ...

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

churchm.ag › monitoring-your-church-staffs-internet-usage

Monitoring Your Church Staff's Internet Usage - ChurchMag
Feb 26, 2010 - Most of you have probably been made aware of the recent scandal where a Pennsylvania school is charged with spying on their students via ...
uschurchlaw.com › computer-use-guidelines-your-staff-must-know

Computer Use Guidelines Your Staff Must Know
Feb 7, 2014 - On one hand, the Internet allows churches to market inexpensively to potential ... Prohibit employees from using church computers to visit lewd or ... email account, the church is free to monitor its own computers and to review ...

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

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[RDKirk]

First New findings (today) via internet search <current news churches watching members emails internet>

First excerpt:
"The emails from Saints officials focused on the church's public "messaging" and the manner in which the archdiocese would release of a list of clergy members who were "credibly accused" of sexual abuse, according to the AP.

"The information at issue bears a relationship to these crimes because it is a continuation of the Archdiocese's pattern and practice of concealing its crimes so that the public does not discover its criminal behavior," the attorneys for the men wrote. "And the Saints joined in."

The Saints are fighting in court to keep the emails from being made available to the public. Saints attorneys, in filings obtained by the AP, called any claim of the team helping the church cover up crimes "outrageous" and believe the emails should not be "fodder for the public.""


Multiple Saints execs accused of assisting Catholic Church with 'messaging' in wake of sexual abuse scandal

I don't think you understood the story.

I work with a couple of pro football players with our church youth group. They have told me that professional football teams (having a bunch of young prima donnas with buckets of duckets) rather frequently have to deal with potential sex scandals reaching the media. Team managements are good at it--there is a lot going in those teams on that you never hear about.

In this case, the New Orleans archdiocese is having scandal problems of their own. Because the archdiocese leadership is on personal friendship terms with the New Orleans Saints football team management, the archdiocese asked the team management for advice on handling the media in those circumstances.

The 270+ messages involved in the story are emails and texts between the archdiocese and the team managers in how to deal with the media over sex scandals. It probably looks like a conspiracy to cover up illegal activity. That has nothing to do with the Church having surreptitiously gained anyone's email; they were addressees on those emails.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

"Go look for it on the web" is not a sufficient response to the challenge to provide proof that certain Churches are keylogging their members.

So ? What certain churches , specifically, are named as keylogging their members ? (anywhere in this thread or forum) ?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

shalom.

 

[Hammster]

That's a true statement.

Anything else specifically ?

(noting that not all , if any at times, keylogging is illegal)

Next question for you: (regarding morality/ lack there of, in places)
How many churches were guilty in the last year, ten years, one hundred years, for much more serious crimes (actual criminal crimes). ?

(examples coming slowly, no worry, for those seeking the truth)

https://www.pewforum.org/2011/03/31/churches-in-court5/
=================================================
www.latimes.com › california › story › sex-abuse-lawsuits-alleged-vic...

As window for sex-abuse lawsuits opens, alleged victims ...
Jan 2, 2020 - The lawsuits are the first of what are expected to be scores of claims against churches and other organizations for long-ago sexual abuse.

None of this has anything to do with churches using key logging to gather info on their congregants.

So you have nothing.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

And it says nothing about your claim that all businesses, churches, and the government are doing it.

oops.... no such claim was ever made..... (just now saw this part of this post) ....

They can do it, many may do it, whether legally, illegally, openly or secretly.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

You're going to have to provide some specific evidence that a specific church has ever done it with anything other than their own equipment.

"Discovered" that it is best to let you watch the news for a week. It is pretty likely some of these activities, or worse ones (morally speaking) will be broadcast locally and/or nationwide soon. That's often what makes the main news story , right ? Most people don't notice it though - it's usually just like elevator music - it is there, but relatively un=noticed and likely ignored. Pay attention for a week. See what comes up without even trying.

 

[HARK!]

The secret plans hidden on purpose to hide any kind of wrong activity is quite common, right ? This is human nature, and historically quite common.
Many people go on for decades often, without knowing the activities until they are exposed often in a quick then silenced scandal. Some in ongoing scandals.
If it was your information, or your family, or anyone you know, would you want it to stay hidden or to be revealed = as Paul revealed in the Bible when there were things to be dealt with, and that were dealt with.
The secrecy is so astonishing.... so many people are unaware, and so many don't care or think they cannot do anything about it, or are scared to talk about it....
(not specifically about keylogging, but that is so easy to do anyway, and often not even thought about...)
But about the immorality , the wrong practices economic , or other, potential in any company including religious groups. And often publicised AFTER years of going on....

I abandoned this thread; but since you insist on dragging me back into it:

I suggest that you start a pure thread on the subject you feel is important. I'd be honored to come and view it. Don't give recognition to a thread that seems to defame the church.

Your faith is strong. Some are weak. Some have no faith at all; but they are curiously seeking. Their eyes are seeing whatever good you are trying to bring to them, through a lens of wickedness.

Let this thread sink to the depth of obscurity; unless the OP will come back and prove that it is worthy of merit.

I appreciated your help in advising me in my discernment, just last night. I would hope that you would let me help you in return.

Shalom

 

[crossnote]

So ? What certain churches , specifically, are named as keylogging their members ? (anywhere in this thread or forum) ?

The claim was that there are churches guilty of keylogging their members. That assertion was challenged and the challenge was met with 'go look for it on the web'. Now you are asking 'what certain churches?

It doesn't matter, my objection was that the response 'go look for it on the web' is not proof that 'certain churches' or 'any churches' are guilty of that practice.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The claim was that there are churches guilty of keylogging their members. That assertion was challenged and the challenge was met with 'go look for it on the web'. Now you are asking 'what certain churches?

It doesn't matter, my objection was that the response 'go look for it on the web' is not proof that 'certain churches' or 'any churches' are guilty of that practice.

So no , this is incorrect. Like the others, you mis-read the claim. I edit deleted most of them (not the claims, the posts) as I discovered getting to specific named churches (the direction you all seemed to wantr to go) with specific keylogging would not be a good thing to accomplish on this site.
See how 'defensive' you all got just from the possibility that something was happening
that for SOME REASON you all thought was so , WHAT?.... impossible !? Why would anyone think it so strange that a church or business or day care or dhs or government office keylog ?
Why would any of you think that makes any of THEM GUILTY ? (doing so if they did)...

But, you all did not read the posts, you 'saw' what you wanted to see. Some worse than others with similarly continuing false accusations that I made that claim...

See the quotes of my original posts, or if need be later, I made copies of the first 5 pages before editing anything.

The goal or purpose of the op, I cannot speak for if they did not state it. They may be right or wrong.
Same with the other posters now.

Since I am replying to you, I'll ask you now to BE SPECIFIC >>

> sincy you claim the claim was made (by me?) that quote: "there are churches guilty of keylogging their members" end quote,
I'll ask you kindly to show me ANYONE who showed that I made that claim quoting me doing so.

Remember, specifically, accurately, is important.

THIS specifically will go a long way to understanding what happened and why.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I abandoned this thread; but since you insist on dragging me back into it:

I suggest that you start a pure thread on the subject you feel is important. I'd be honored to come and view it. Don't give recognition to a thread that seems to defame the church.

Your faith is strong. Some are weak. Some have no faith at all; but they are curiously seeking. Their eyes are seeing whatever good you are trying to bring to them, through a lens of wickedness.

Let this thread sink to the depth of obscurity; unless the OP will come back and prove that it is worthy of merit.

I appreciated your help in advising me in my discernment, just last night. I would hope that you would let me help you in return.

Shalom

smile... with hope.... that your motives are indeed as expected pure and holy. I don't remember if you made any false claims/ accusations and it doesn't matter.... the goal was understanding of not only the op, but of the quick and stubborn replies that thought it impossible that churches and other entities could do such a thing, and that such a thing would make them somehow oh so bad or guilty. (when actually it may be a common practice where they work and where they worship without them even ever hearing about it) ....

 

[HappyHope]

Please excuse me as I feel an involuntary urge to ramble; sort of like that itch that I feel when a pest starts chewing on my bare back.

Has anyone else noticed that the OP is a new member with only 18 posts; that he stirred up a bunch of stink, attacking nameless churches, posted in the OP without providing any source for his claims; and after that first post goes MIA, appearing to have abandoned the thread?

Does anyone else here feel like a hit and run victim?

Ramble ended.

I am truly a follower of Christ not trying to stir up anything. I was also hoping for anyone else who knew about this kind of stuff. I am actually protecting people by not giving names/dates and places. I have had years to wrestle with the right and wrong of this. I truly do see it as wrong all the way but some part of me wants to justify such actions so I don't cause a stir and feel so sad about it. I don't want to think bad of anyone especially those in the family of faith. Thanks for interacting with the post. I have been busy homeschooling my kiddos and helping my hubby with his college. So no abandoning going on.

As far as causing trouble, I get in trouble if I fight back by leaving messages for churches to keylog. That is how I discovered the practice. It began when I was a seminary student typing all my papers in unprotected Word documents. Part of the seminary program involved ways to make the church stronger or methods/programs and practices the church used that might be ineffective or inefficient. I began getting sermon feedback on some mighty familiar content. As a military spouse we move a lot. Two-three churches later and a Christian counseling degree program later, I began to noticing both my closed facebook group posts (Christian homeschooling groups) and my college papers were being commented on in sermons. Immaturely, I got angry and began leaving deliberate messages in my closed facebook posts and my college papers. This did not go over well.

Sermons got positively hostile. Even my husband started to notice and he was thought I was crazy for the longest time. Even my last post on this very sight was picked apart the following week in church using the same verses I used. Obviously, I could point to dates and recorded sermons but some of our local church leaders are amazing and I do not want that. So as much as they do not like me, I am still protecting them

. Anyway so my husband finally believed me. I can't tell you the relief. We are very brokenhearted and in between churches desperately waiting for our next move because moving churches here did not help. It only got worse. That is why I suspected churches are in some kind of circle doing this stuff. The Tulsa church ring helped me confirm what I thought might be going on. If this is considered an accusation, I apologize. And I accept all consequences both on earth and in heaven.

Sincerely in Christ,
HappyHope