Modern day systemic racism, does it exist?

[IWalkAlone]

Sometimes, when they commit crimes against other rich people, other times they get far lighter sentences than poor people would.

Thats not systemic racism.

 

[IWalkAlone]

And sometimes the not so good ones group up and get rid of the good ones and commit crimes together. Remember the rampart scandal and the Compton police department that was so corrupt it was disbanded.

Verses the multitudes of good police actions.

 

[LockeeDeck]

What does that mean? Give me some examples.

There are things I would like to see such as whistle blower protections for police that expose corruption and a lowering of qualified immunity for them.

Admittedly I'm not qualified to solve all the systemic problems but people have put thought into such things. Either way this thread is simply about acknowledging that problems exist.

 

[LockeeDeck]

Thats not systemic racism.

But it does point to systemic problems and if class based systemic problems exist it's not much of a leap to race based systemic problems existing.

 

[IWalkAlone]

But it does point to systemic problems and if class based systemic problems exist it's not much of a leap to race based systemic problems existing.

No, it's not systemic racism and you haven't shared any credible examples of modern systemic racism.

 

[Strathos]

You won't get an answer unless you can solidly define the term 'systemic racism'. Some people seem to think that it means that there have to be laws that specifically and explicitly discriminate against certain races.

 

[Astrid]

By liberals.

So the conservative way is to make no effort at all to help minority
groups who were long beaten down in America?
No sort of effort to kinda make up for the past, get everyone on their feet?
Equity is not actually a bad word or an evil concept.

 

[Astrid]

You won't get an answer unless you can solidly define the term 'systemic racism'. Some people seem to think that it means that there have to be laws that specifically and explicitly discriminate against certain races.

Do you feel that the discrimination against Asians in college admissions is
in need of definition?

Discrimination in College Admissions | Asian American Coalition for Education

 

[rambot]

Re: The op
I would be inclined to say yes.

But just as importantly, there are some SIGNIFICANT problems with law enforcement in the US; whether it is a race issue is almost irrelevant because the problems are so significant. And as black folks tend to have more interactions with police, it shouldn't be surprising that a system as broken as it is, will be seen as systemically oppressive by the group that interacts with it the most.

 

[Ken-1122]

Ok, 3 times now, try watching the video.

Nobody has time to look at an hour long video, we come here to have a back and forth discussion. You can't have a discussion with a video. Care to answer the question in your own words?

 

[Ken-1122]

Racial and class issues are interlinked especially when you factor in redlining.

No because not all races are in the same economical class. BTW redlining was outlawed half a century ago; I think the discussion is about today.

A system that is executed by people with individual bias is a bias system unless something is done to counter act that bias.

When people in the system break the laws of the system to impose their individual bias, that is an example of individual racism, not systemic racism.

 

[rambot]

I See nothing minimizing anything. So you don't think we should eat a Thanksgiving meal?

You not noticing it doesn't mean it isn't happenning. Frankly, it likely lends a LOT of creedence to the idea that it IS getting minimized.... whatever it is that is being discussed

 

[Parmallia]

Disproportionaly commit the crime you disproportionaly do the time.

That isn't what the studies show. The studies show that all things being equal the results of interactions with the justice system disproportionately favor white people.

Young black offenders caught doing the same thing young white offenders (eg selling drugs etc.) will usually have a much worse outcome. Same crime, different justice outcome.

That's systemic racism.

 

[Parmallia]

I don't do links. I'm here, you're here let's discuss it here. A brief paragraph or 2 might inform me enough that I might want to read more.

Fair enough. Accounting for other factors in general when a white kid is stopped for a crime and a black kid is stopped for a crime if the crimes are roughly the same (eg drug selling) the black kid will statistically be more likely to have a worse outcome than a white kid. You can read the studies for the nitty gritty statistical details but that's essentially it. And there isn't just one study that finds this. It is found over and over again.

That I'm certain doesn't address the endless screed that every facet of everything in the U.S. is systemically racist including roads, bridges etc.

I don't care to debate against whatever cartoon view of the topic you carry around. That's why I stick with facts and studies and data.

 

[Parmallia]

Black americans go to prison because they commit crime. Its true that black Americans disproportionately go to prison but thats not because of racism. Its because they disproportionately commit more crime.

It's too bad you don't understand how statistical analyses work.

 

[Astrid]

Thats not systemic racism.

"the studies"

"Studies" are famous for showing whatever they set out
to show.

Now, if there are sets of otherwise essentially identical cases that
show that one group gets shafted, terrif.
Where is it.

 

[Astrid]

It's too bad you don't understand how statistical analyses work.

Show us that you do. Or that some " analysis" shows the
statement was wrong.

 

[RDKirk]

Fair enough. Accounting for other factors in general when a white kid is stopped for a crime and a black kid is stopped for a crime if the crimes are roughly the same (eg drug selling) the black kid will statistically be more likely to have a worse outcome than a white kid. You can read the studies for the nitty gritty statistical details but that's essentially it. And there isn't just one study that finds this. It is found over and over again.

The disparities tend to dwindle similarly to the situation of the "gender wage gap" when the case-by-case details are examined. Case-by-case it usually turns out that the cases are not the same, and the differences are not systemic but individualistic.

 

[Ken-1122]

Fair enough. Accounting for other factors in general when a white kid is stopped for a crime and a black kid is stopped for a crime if the crimes are roughly the same (eg drug selling) the black kid will statistically be more likely to have a worse outcome than a white kid. You can read the studies for the nitty gritty statistical details but that's essentially it. And there isn't just one study that finds this. It is found over and over again.

Using your drug example, while true whites do sell drugs more often than blacks but get arrested less often, the reason is because in many black neighborhoods there is a culture of selling drugs in the open or even on street corners where it is easy for the cops to catch them; and whites have a culture of selling their drugs in private homes to people they know making it more difficult for the cops to catch them. This is not an example of racism, it’s an example of different cultures resulting in different results.
Blacks Less Likely To Sell Drugs, Much More Likely To Be Arrested For It: Study

 

[rambot]

"the studies"

"Studies" are famous for showing whatever they set out
to show.

Now, if there are sets of otherwise essentially identical cases that
show that one group gets shafted, terrif.
Where is it.

so a study creates a hypothesis, proves it, and this is evidence of something nefarious apparently?

Fyi, there have been many studies with hypotheses that don't get proven. And they end up in the crash bin. Is that also problematic for you or should we be praising and lifting up poor hypotheses?