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Misogyny is disgusting

Discussion in 'Ethics & Morality' started by Brightmoon, Nov 7, 2019.

  1. comana

    comana Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Where are you getting your ideas about men? Historically, and pretty universally around the world, men have been allowed- no, encouraged- to play the field before deciding to settle down.

    While modern women now have a voice to say if they think that behavior pattern is acceptable or not, women in the past were told to look the other way because "boys will be boys", or men have "needs", etc. However, the expectation for women was to remain pure until her marriage bed or be considered "not the right kind of girl" for a man now ready to settle down.


    Many, many women manage make it through military training and canhandle military weapons just as well as a man.

    You are going to need to provide a link to research to back up your claims that "women are far more susceptible to cracking under stress" because my many more years experience, over your 19, observing men and women has not seen this to bear out as truth.

    As to PTSD, women are more likely to seek help for their PTSD because there is less stigma for women admitting they need help than there is for a man. Men struggle with it more for that reason.
     
  2. JackRT

    JackRT Flat earther waking up ... Supporter

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    I think that women can actually handle stress better than most men. That might very well be because they generally have much more experience at it.
     
  3. theoneandonlypencil

    theoneandonlypencil Member

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    That is a fairly modern way of thinking. Historically, as far as I know, men were not encouraged to 'play the field'. The only place where that kind of practice was promoted was perhaps in greece and rome--both places that ultimately crumbled anyways.

    Gender and Stress

    "
    Though they report similar average stress levels, women are more likely than men to report that their stress levels are on the rise. They are also much more likely than men to report physical and emotional symptoms of stress. When comparing women with each other, there also appears to be differences in the ways that married and single women experience stress.

    • Women are more likely than men (28 percent vs. 20 percent) to report having a great deal of stress (8, 9 or 10 on a 10-point scale).

    • Almost half of all women (49 percent) surveyed said their stress has increased over the past five years, compared to four in 10 (39 percent) men.

    • Women are more likely to report that money (79 percent compared with 73 percent of men) and the economy (68 percent compared with 61 percent of men) are sources of stress while men are far more likely to cite that work is a source of stress (76 percent compared with 65 percent of women).

    • Women are more likely to report physical and emotional symptoms of stress than men, such as having had a headache (41 percent vs. 30 percent), having felt as though they could cry (44 percent vs. 15 percent), or having had an upset stomach or indigestion (32 percent vs. 21 percent) in the past month.

    • Married women report higher levels of stress than single women, with one-third (33 percent) reporting that they have experienced a great deal of stress in the past month (8, 9 or 10 on a 10-point scale) compared with one in five (22 percent) of single women. Similarly, significantly more married women report that their stress has increased over the past five years (56 percent vs. 41 percent of single women). Single women are also more likely than married women to say they feel they are doing enough to manage their stress (63 percent vs. 51 percent).

    • Married women are more likely than single women to report they have experienced the following due to stress in the past month: feeling as though they could cry (54 percent vs. 33 percent), feeling irritable or angry (52 percent vs. 38 percent), having headaches (48 percent vs. 33 percent) and experiencing fatigue (47 percent vs. 35 percent)."
    Enough proof for you then?

    'Asking for help' is not a factor. Men who are under medication for PTSD still have problems as well, and as far as I know, there's not many reliable or permanent 'cures' or treatments for PTSD. Besides that, do you remember the first draft we had? The women all had to operate the factories and hold down the fort while the men died to protect our country. But no, by all means, let's force all of our women out onto the battlefield and leave our country wide open and weak. It's for 'equality'.
     
  4. theoneandonlypencil

    theoneandonlypencil Member

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    No, they don't. Please refer to the study I linked. Women handle stress a lot worse than men.
     
  5. JackRT

    JackRT Flat earther waking up ... Supporter

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    Under the extreme patriarchy of the Old Testament an official nod was made to male fidelity but there was never any condemnation of sex with a prostitute or a free woman. What was condemned was any violation of the male ownership of women.
     
  6. theoneandonlypencil

    theoneandonlypencil Member

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    Leviticus 19:29
    "Do not defile your daughter by making her a prostitute, or the land will be filled with prostitution and wickedness.

    Leviticus 21:9
    And the daughter of any priest, if she profanes herself by whoring, profanes her father; she shall be burned with fire. (ESV)

    Deuteronomy 23:17–18
    "No Israelite, whether man or woman, may become a temple prostitute. When you are bringing an offering to fulfill a vow, you must not bring to the house of the LORD your God any offering from the earnings of a prostitute, whether a man or a woman, for both are detestable to the LORD your God."

    Jude 1:7
    Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

    Old Testament did not take kindly to prostitution, adultery or fornication with EITHER gender. It's also helpful to note that 'adultery' is often associated in the old testament with fornication--aka sex outside of marriage. And you remember the 6th commandment? "Ye shall not commit adultery".

    Men and women have different roles, period. It's not a bad thing, for pity's sake. In terms of Christianity, it's God-ordained; men were given leadership over women.
     
  7. JackRT

    JackRT Flat earther waking up ... Supporter

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    When we look at the bible, both old and new testaments, we realize that it emerged from an extremely patriarchal society. This society devalued women to the extent that they were not even considered to be persons before the law. Not only were they devalued but they were in many ways considered to be of inferior intellect and of a carnal nature even moreso than the male. Patriarchy was simply part and parcel of their world view --- they simply were unable to think of the role of women in any other way. Today we know that women are the intellectual and spiritual equals of men and in every respect except physical size and strength. Jesus himself seems to gave been largely gender blind in that he numbered women among his disciples and apostles and even close friends. Paul, at first, appears conflicted until we realize that the pastoral epistles (1 and 2 Timothy and Titus) were actually written pseudonymously some 60 years after Paul's death. This was more than enough time for patriarchy to once again take charge. In my personal opinion patriarchy just might be the ugliest evil that humanity has ever inflicted on itself. It still exerts its malevolent influence in some circles even today. As a Christian I am convinced that we should make every effort to ensure the full equality of women in every aspect of the life of our churches and in society at large.
     
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  8. comana

    comana Senior Veteran Supporter

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    I already pointed out that this type of exam is not reliable to determine virginity. What happens when a virgin does not have an "intact hymen"? Who will protect the girl from her father's anger?

    Subjecting a young woman to an unnecessary, humiliating, and invasive exam is abusive.



    The point is that the first time is only significant because it is the first It is not necessary to put it on a pedestal though. Having said that, I personally think a person should value themselves and wait until they are ready, not give into social pressures, and have that first (or any future) experience be with someone they have developed a trust and care for. It is possible to value the intimacy of sex and still have multiple partners throughout one's life.



    I did not say that is all sex is. My point was that purity culture devalues the marriageable worth of a person who is not a virgin. There are much more important traits of a person to consider and truly sad to possibly eliminate an otherwise "perfect" match because they had sex in the past.

    As to men being held to a higher standard in the past and always dutifully marrying a woman he slept with? Sure, many did because they were in love or they got caught and their families forced them to, but on the whole, history would prove otherwise. Girls in "trouble" were often whisked off to maternity homes and then forced to put the child up for adoption. Others may have found themselves kicked out and homeless with an infant. And the more desperate sought out dangerous and illegal abortions.

    A man who wanted to shirk his responsibility easily could and did.


    In a country with a population of 350+, calling up men and women are called to war equally should leave plenty of able bodied people still at home to carry out day to day tasks. Also, perhaps there would be more hesitation to jump into a conflict on the scale that would require a draft if everyone's sons AND daughters lives were on the line.


    Yes, I am well aware of all the many roles that are not on the battlefield. I still hold that if a qualified woman wants a combat MOS then go for it.
     
  9. comana

    comana Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Your study is based on self-reporting. Men are less likely to admit they are stressed because it is perceived as a sign of weakness or failure. Men are also more likely to die from stress induced conditions because they hold everything in and push through it. It takes a physical toll over a lifetime.
     
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  10. theoneandonlypencil

    theoneandonlypencil Member

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    If there was mistreatment of women in the OT, I can guarantee you that it was was not from God's people, nor was it part of Godly morality. Deborah was a judge, Miriam lead songs of praise, Esther was a queen, Rahab helped the Israelite conquest by hiding two men in her home and Ruth was blessed by God for being faithful. Furthermore, Genesis itself declares;
    Genesis 5:1-2
    5 This is the written account when they were created.
    When God created mankind, he made them in the likeness of God. 2 He created them and blessed them. And he named them “Mankind” when they were created.


    Both man and woman were made in the likeness of God. Furthermore, Eve was not formed from Adam's crown(his head = above him)nor from his foot(his feet = below him); but she was created from his rib(rib/abdomin = equal). Just because woman have roles that are made to be complementary to men does NOT mean they are devalued or less important. People like you devalue women by saying "Unless you do the same things as men, you are less than men".
     
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  11. Chesterton

    Chesterton Whats So Funny bout Peace Love and Understanding Supporter

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    I'm not following your logic. Having a desire about how someone chooses to use their agency implies the opposite - that they do have agency. And I don't know what "lesser in agency" could mean. The abilty to resist being tricked or coerced is going to vary from individual to individual, in both men and women. I don't view women as a class of clones as you seem to.

    And if you're unaware that both men and women use love and sex and everything else to coerce other people for what they want, you probably haven't been exposed to any human history, literature or popular music for the last few thousand years. :)
     
  12. theoneandonlypencil

    theoneandonlypencil Member

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    If you want to call it 'self reporting' even though I gave you a link to a page by the American Psychological Association, that's not my problem. YOU however are self reporting, as you've cited no source to your claims. Also, stress for men usually involves physically demanding jobs or business-related fields(both of which are very stressful). Stress takes its tolls on everyone--my point is that it's worse on Women.

    People these days use the word 'abusive' so much that it's going to lose it's meaning, y'know. I already explained that while I myself would discourage an annual exam of that kind. Besides that, I HIGHLY doubt if she was born without a hymen, her father would immediately assume she somehow had sex without him knowing. Likewise, if the father is going to care about the hymen anyways, he'll either already know or be told that athletic activities can also break the hymen.

    'Social pressures'. Is respecting your parents, helping people in need and practicing good manners also only just 'social pressures'? And for the record, the breakup of that kind of 'first love' will hurt a lot more ESPECIALLY if they've had sex. I'm not going to argue further on this point, since neither of us are going to change our stance.

    I'm not going to argue this either since you're essentially agreeing with me. I never said purity culture, in the sense that it demonizes sex and devalues someone based on their track record, was good or should be done.

    Just because crappy stuff happened in the past does NOT mean it was promoted. I'm sure the father of the girls' who went through that would love nothing more than to strangle the man who slept with his daughter and ran off. Men who did that would be a poor example of a 'good man' even in that time.

    If there weren't enough able-bodied men in the first draft to keep women from having to work in factories and take on the jobs that the men had previously occupied, what makes you think that there's going to be 'enough' leftover with the WOMEN gone too? EDIT: I just realized what you meant, and while I still think my first statement has some weight, I'll still refer to the fact that no sane person is going to call women out to combat when there are plenty of men who could do better. Refer to the analogy at the bottom of this post.

    No woman is qualified; not in comparison to men. That's the problem. If you worked at a big tech company, you wouldn't hire a fresh grad from college over the programmer with 20+ years experience and a Master's degree in computer science, would you? Obviously not.
     
  13. theoneandonlypencil

    theoneandonlypencil Member

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    Anyways, I'm going to stop replying to this thread. It's wasting a lot of time, and I've said just about as much as I possibly can.
     
  14. Paidiske

    Paidiske Clara bonam audax Supporter

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    Self-reporting, in this context, means that the study is based on subjects rating and reporting their own stress (rather than some other objective measure of stress). Studies based on this kind of self-reporting have significant, and well-understood, weaknesses; not the least of which is that they rely on each subject measuring in the same way and reporting openly and honestly.

    I would say that men and women typically handle stress differently. Women, because of the way we're socialised, tend to handle our stress more openly and visibly. That doesn't mean men aren't affected by stress, though.
     
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  15. gaara4158

    gaara4158 Keep on keeping on

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    I guess I have to spell it out for you.

    If a father feels compelled to verify his daughter's virginity because he suspects she's been up to no good and the family might be facing some serious problems, that's one thing. But if all he cites is a mistrust of her male peers, then it follows that he believes the boys have more power over his daughter's virginity than she does. Otherwise, he could just take her word for it. Further, fathers who accept this prejudice as a general rule are implicitly stating that all boys are in charge of the virginities of all girls. Where does consent factor in in this view? And I'm the one who sees all women as a class of clones? Give me a break.

    I get the sentiment. Really, I do. I don't trust teenage boys to keep their hands to themselves either, and I don't trust them not to employ deceptive or coercive tactics to get what they want from teenage girls. But, as they say, it takes two to tango, and as much as you'd like to believe your precious daughter was "tricked" into it, it was her decision. The "I don't trust teenage boys" excuse for obsessing over your daughter's virginity just doesn't wash. What I'd like to see more of is parents trusting their teenage daughters to be open and honest with them about the important parts of their lives, including virginal status. And if they don't think they've raised her well enough to make good decisions, that's on them.
     
  16. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    True, except when someone(s) sinned against God. Not authorized by God.
     
  17. Kylie

    Kylie Atheist and Proud

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    If men were held to a higher standard, then it seems that you should be complaining about men sleeping around MORE than you are about women sleeping around!

    So it's the IDEA of sex that you love? I'd rather have the real thing.

    Of course, if you view sex as something sacred and only to be shared with certain people, that's fine. But that doesn't mean that people who hold different views to you are wrong.

    How does the intimacy I have with my husband suffer due to me having had sex with other people?

    Go and watch a movie called Kingsman. It ends with the hero having saved the day, and then a woman having sex with him because he's the hero. Her only job is literally to provide sex for the hero because he won. She's a prize. If you don't find that disturbing, then there's nothing else I can say.

    Nice use of the "not all men" trope.

    What percentage of women have been sexually harassed? Now tell me what percentage of men have been sexually harassed. Now tell me who is doing the majority of the harassing of women?

    So if a woman uses her power, then you complain.

    So let's see...

    You said in post 76 that lots of people are lonely and depressed, despite the fact that sexual promiscuity and 'independence' have become more acceptable. This is clearly implying that you think an increase of sexual promiscuity and independence would result in a reduction of depression and loneliness. Thus showing that you think that people are depressed and lonely because they can't get any sex.

    In post 79, I asked you to explain why you think this way.

    In post 80, you claimed you never said there was a connection. Well, perhaps you didn't come out and say it directly, but you certainly phrased your statement in a way that suggested it strongly. And if you didn't think that there was a connection, your original statement would make no sense. It would be like me saying, "Why do cars crash when the availability of tofu burgers is increasing?"

    Since you were clearly suggesting a relationship between depression and sexual promiscuity, I once again asked you to clarify your thoughts on that relationship. Post 91.

    Now you are contradicting yourself again by saying that there is a connection, and a very obvious connection. Yet you apparently are unable to explain this connection.

    In short, your argument that people should be less lonely if they are having more sex seems to suggest two things:

    • You're an incel apologist
    • You have no understanding what the real cause of depression and loneliness is.

    The fact that women are in the army shooting the same guns as men seems to prove you wrong.

    And studies have shown that women are actually better than men at coping with stress. New Research Explains Why Women May Respond Better To Stress

    You might want to get some supporting evidence for these claims you make.

    Why not? What do you think I'd do wrong?
     
  18. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    Unfortunately very little.

    Maybe have a dna swab after every date, every day at school, etc.?
     
  19. Brightmoon

    Brightmoon Apes and humans are all in family Hominidae.

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    . But, but , but, but ......I liked it when I dyed my hair fuchsia! And since humans are apes that hair belongs in our armpits ;).
    Since women die during combat anyway why shouldn’t they be allowed to protect themselves or fellow soldiers .....I actually think this was about the pay . They didn’t want to give women combat pay when they got injured during combat!
    Misogyny is never needed . Controlling your own life to enhance positive things is what’s needed .

    And last but not least, women aren’t going to put up with the crap that our grandmothers and mothers did during marriage. That accounts for the 50% divorce rate.
     
  20. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    .... disobedience? (by almost everyone)
     
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