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Misogyny is disgusting

Discussion in 'Ethics & Morality' started by Brightmoon, Nov 7, 2019.

  1. Mattin91

    Mattin91 Member

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    Good for you. Atheist-materialism is bad. It leads to uh... atheism.
     
  2. Quackduck

    Quackduck Member

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    Which is far better than being an Christian extremist, imo.
     
  3. Mattin91

    Mattin91 Member

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    Who is a Christian extremist? What do Christian extremists do?
     
  4. Quackduck

    Quackduck Member

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    They bang on about the 'born again' nonsense with threats of burning in the flames of hell if they don't convert. Thank goodness not all Christians believe in that dogma.
     
  5. Mattin91

    Mattin91 Member

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    Hell is real. What's your point? No one is judged when they die? Christians have a duty to warn others.
     
  6. Quackduck

    Quackduck Member

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    You have no evidence to support that statement, the Bible is just a collection of documents, no sort of evidence whatsoever.
     
  7. Mattin91

    Mattin91 Member

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    Again, what is your point? Or should I ask, why post here? To convince people that the Bible is untrue?
     
  8. Brightmoon

    Brightmoon Apes and humans are all in family Hominidae.

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    . That’s just ignorant! Biology just describes natural phenomena around living or extinct organisms. Belief or non belief in a deity or the supernatural has nothing to do with any of the sciences.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2019
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  9. Mattin91

    Mattin91 Member

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    So, science is over here and religion is over there? Here, the fact is God exists. And for some, God does not exist. Religion is concerned with the truth. The Catholic Church is concerned about the truth.

    Crying ignorant will not start a conversation. So, please, don't start with that. Instead, we all have to live together in the same place and we both want the truth. The truth about God cannot disappear.
     
  10. JackRT

    JackRT Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Birds sing.

    Whales sing.
     
  11. Brightmoon

    Brightmoon Apes and humans are all in family Hominidae.

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    Nature as described by scientists is the way it is . Bible stories of creation are inaccurate descriptions of natural phenomena . The Catholic Church was angry with Galileo for telling the truth about planetary systems . He ended up under house arrest for the rest of his life and probably only escaped being burnt alive because the pope was an acquaintance of his.

    Yes ,science is over here and religion is there. SJ Gould referred to it as non-overlapping magisteria
     
  12. Mattin91

    Mattin91 Member

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    I'm familiar with Mr. Gould. I've seen the Galileo story repeated a lot. Galileo was foolish. He shouted his findings from the rooftops before all of the facts were in. The Church was not angry with his findings. He did jump the gun.

    By creating this wall of separation, a false problem is created. Christians of every denomination are concerned with the truth. When so-called science begins to make claims beyond its competence, it is appropriate to say, "stay within your self-imposed boundaries." No conflict need occur but I recall an article that appeared in the New York Times. It was written by Catholic Cardinal Schoenborn. He denied some scientific information as being factually true. This prompted two scientists to write the Vatican. They were afraid that what he wrote will be taken seriously by Catholics. And so it goes. The Church is watched like a hawk so that it does not speak the truth (?) No, science is provisional and the Catholic Church is the greatest truth-telling institution in the world.
     
  13. Paidiske

    Paidiske Clara bonam audax Supporter

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    I suspect that much of the problem with virginity pledges is that they are not, generally, about expectations one sets oneself, but expectations which are imposed by others. And that, then, when those expectations are not fulfilled, there is much shaming of the young people concerned.

    I have no problem with a young person privately committing to chastity in singleness. But when it becomes a public spectacle and particularly when a father is made the "guardian" of her "purity" or the like, the potential for abuse is very high.

    As for this religion/science thing? :rolleyes: I have degrees in both. A BSc majoring in genetics and immunology and an MDiv majoring in systematic theology. Once I got past some of the bad theology I'd been presented with growing up, I had absolutely no problem building an integrated worldview which incorporates the best elements of both.

    It's helpful to have some understanding of the kinds of claims science does and does not make; the way scientific claims are made, tested and refined; and it's helpful to have some understanding of the way theological disciplines work (which is very different). What is not helpful is to insist that one is better or more valid than the other; they are different disciplines concerned with different questions, employing different methods and addressing different needs.

    Galileo had a very useful analogy; he said that God is the author of two books (Scripture and nature). Since God does not lie, when those two books are interpreted correctly, they cannot contradict one another. Unfortunately, we are generally very prone to bad interpretation!
     
  14. Mattin91

    Mattin91 Member

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    Public virginity pledges are bad? Are public gay pride parades bad?

    Science does make claims about human beings that are outside of its competence. Science even claims that religion grew out of some evolution-related idea. The Catholic Church can and does correct science when its interpretations go beyond its self-imposed boundaries. Man has qualities no animals have and an eternal soul. Since science cannot study souls or God, it is up to the Church to provide critical information to people that science cannot. In this way, people know the whole truth.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2019
  15. Brightmoon

    Brightmoon Apes and humans are all in family Hominidae.

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    They both make mating calls and whales call each other by name . It sounds like singing to us
     
  16. Paidiske

    Paidiske Clara bonam audax Supporter

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    If they are, it's for very different reasons.

    Science can make observations about religiosity and neurology, and speculate about how those observations might be related to evolution, but science does not unequivocally claim what you're stating here.

    As for the Catholic church correcting science... ^_^... there's not exactly a good track record there. I would say that, on the whole, I have seen religious people speak in ignorance and beyond the boundaries of what can be established by their religion, far more than I have seen scientists speak in ignorance and beyond the boundaries of what can be established by their science.

    Yes, it is up to the Church to speak on matters of theology. But it is, frankly, rather self-defeating to denigrate science along the way.
     
  17. Mattin91

    Mattin91 Member

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    Thank you for your reply. Factual statements denigrate no one. However, wrong conclusions have appeared in non-religious Biology textbooks.


    “[E]volution works without either plan or purpose — Evolution is random and undirected.”
    (Biology, by Kenneth R. Miller & Joseph S. Levine (1st ed., Prentice Hall, 1991), pg. 658; (3rd ed., Prentice Hall, 1995), pg. 658; (4th ed., Prentice Hall, 1998), pg. 658; emphasis in original.)

    Humans represent just one tiny, largely fortuitous, and late-arising twig on the enormously arborescent bush of life.”
    (Stephen J Gould quoted in Biology, by Peter H Raven & George B Johnson (5th ed., McGraw Hill, 1999), pg 15; (6th ed., McGraw Hill, 2000), pg. 16.)

    “By coupling undirected, purposeless variation to the blind, uncaring process of natural selection, Darwin made theological or spiritual explanations of the life processes superfluous.”
    (Evolutionary Biology, by Douglas J. Futuyma (3rd ed., Sinauer Associates Inc., 1998), p. 5.)

    “Darwin knew that accepting his theory required believing in philosophical materialism, the conviction that matter is the stuff of all existence and that all mental and spiritual phenomena are its by-products. Darwinian evolution was not only purposeless but also heartless–a process in which the rigors of nature ruthlessly eliminate the unfit. Suddenly, humanity was reduced to just one more species in a world that cared nothing for us. The great human mind was no more than a mass of evolving neurons. Worst of all, there was no divine plan to guide us.”
    (Biology: Discovering Life by Joseph S. Levine & Kenneth R. Miller (1st ed., D.C. Heath and Co., 1992), pg. 152; (2nd ed.. D.C. Heath and Co., 1994), p. 161; emphases in original.)

    “Adopting this view of the world means accepting not only the processes of evolution, but also the view that the living world is constantly evolving, and that evolutionary change occurs without any goals.’ The idea that evolution is not directed towards a final goal state has been more difficult for many people to accept than the process of evolution itself.”
    (Life: The Science of Biology by William K. Purves, David Sadava, Gordon H. Orians, & H. Craig Keller, (6th ed., Sinauer; W.H. Freeman and Co., 2001), pg. 3.)

    “The ‘blind’ watchmaker is natural selection. Natural selection is totally blind to the future. “Humans are fundamentally not exceptional because we came from the same evolutionary source as every other species. It is natural selection of selfish genes that has given us our bodies and brains “Natural selection is a bewilderingly simple idea. And yet what it explains is the whole of life, the diversity of life, the apparent design of life.”
    (Richard Dawkins quoted in Biology by Neil A. Campbell, Jane B. Reese. & Lawrence G. Mitchell (5th ed., Addison Wesley Longman, 1999), pgs. 412-413.)

    “Of course, no species has 'chosen’ a strategy. Rather, its ancestors 'little by little, generation after generation' merely wandered into a successful way of life through the action of random evolutionary forces. Once pointed in a certain direction, a line of evolution survives only if the cosmic dice continues to roll in its favor. “[J]ust by chance, a wonderful diversity of life has developed during the billions of years in which organisms have been evolving on earth.
    (Biology by Burton S. Guttman (1st ed., McGraw Hill, 1999), pgs. 36-37.)

    “It is difficult to avoid the speculation that Darwin, as has been the case with others, found the implications of his theory difficult to confront. “The real difficulty in accepting Darwins theory has always been that it seems to diminish our significance. Earlier, astronomy had made it clear that the earth is not the center of the solar universe, or even of our own solar system. Now the new biology asked us to accept the proposition that, like all other organisms, we too are the products of a random process that, as far as science can show, we are not created for any special purpose or as part of any universal design.”
    (Invitation to Biology, by Helena Curtis & N. Sue Barnes(3rd ed., Worth, 1981), pgs. 474-475.)[/QUOTE]
     
  18. Paidiske

    Paidiske Clara bonam audax Supporter

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    There are some problematic statements there. But just because someone may have worded a paragraph in a textbook badly, does not mean that "science" declares what they say to be the case.

    There are people who write about science badly, just as much as there are people who write about biology badly. :)
     
  19. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    Good pledge, but maybe they should be 'less public', seeing the vast wickednesses in and of the public (even in many churches!) - so as not (even accidentally) to be as if 'offering' a pure white undefiled soul and body in front of nor to those who would defile it, mock it, and even slaughter it !?

    In the world, the world loves its own. They always do what is bad.
     
  20. Brightmoon

    Brightmoon Apes and humans are all in family Hominidae.

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    Religions possibly grew out of need to understand how stuff works which we truly didn’t get around totry to understand in a major way until the renaissance . Hundreds of thousands of years stumbling around until we developed a systematic way of figuring out how stuff worked. And as soon as that happens it ran into opposition from the church . Galileo did have evidence that not everything revolves around the earth but the churchman he wanted to look through his telescope refused to look. Besides allhe needed was an understanding that for Venus to have phases like the moon it had to go around the sun . Otherwise we’d rarelysee it in the sky
     
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