Misogyny is disgusting

Mattin91

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There are some problematic statements there. But just because someone may have worded a paragraph in a textbook badly, does not mean that "science" declares what they say to be the case.

There are people who write about science badly, just as much as there are people who write about biology badly. :)

Some statements go way beyond problematic. It appears you do not think so. God works in His Creation. He did not go on vacation and leave it all to humans. If we pray to a real person, Jesus Christ, we can't ignore the miracles He performed. These things are things only God can do, and yes, he can do His miraculous work today.
 
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Mattin91

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Religions possibly grew out of need to understand how stuff works which we truly didn’t get around totry to understand in a major way until the renaissance . Hundreds of thousands of years stumbling around until we developed a systematic way of figuring out how stuff worked. And as soon as that happens it ran into opposition from the church . Galileo did have evidence that not everything revolves around the earth but the churchman he wanted to look through his telescope refused to look. Besides allhe needed was an understanding that for Venus to have phases like the moon it had to go around the sun . Otherwise we’d rarelysee it in the sky


That is totally inaccurate. Please read some actual history. The history of technology requires research. China, for example, developed a number of things long before Europeans.
 
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Paidiske

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God works in His Creation. He did not go on vacation and leave it all to humans. If we pray to a real person, Jesus Christ, we can't ignore the miracles He performed. These things are things only God can do, and yes, he can do His miraculous work today.

I agree. But these are religious claims, and they cannot be tested by scientific means, and therefore remain outside the ambit of science in any sense. The minute people start making claims about God or religion, they are no longer talking about science.
 
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Mattin91

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I agree. But these are religious claims, and they cannot be tested by scientific means, and therefore remain outside the ambit of science in any sense. The minute people start making claims about God or religion, they are no longer talking about science.

And that creates problems. An ignorance about spiritual things which science cannot explain to them. So some people believe they are animals who live and die, and nothing more. There are those that think science has 'explained' religion. And religion does not mean anything or is not real, aside from a set of beliefs. It is the duty of every Christian to tell people, "Science cannot tell you the whole story. Things you need to live. To know God."

Science cannot do certain things but the Catholic Church can combine science with Divine Revelation to give people the whole complete answer. The Church is not limited like science.
 
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Brightmoon

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Natural selection being blind to the future of a species is absolutely accurate. Why do you have a problem with that? Dna doesn’t mutate in a totally random way . But it’s random enough so that that statement isn’t completely wrong
 
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Brightmoon

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Public virginity pledges are bad? Are public gay pride parades bad?.
. Virginity doesn’t really exist . It’s just a women or man who hasn’t had sex yet. That’s a ridiculous way to define a person . Are they smart ? Are they quiet? Are they educated? Do they like Led Zeppelin or country music? All of these are better ways to define a person even if the description is incomplete . Do you know the state of their sex organs that you had nothing to do with ? That’s ridiculous and unnecessarily intrusive!

The gays are celebrating that they can openly walk the streets without being murdered, beaten , raped, arrested, fined, and/or jailed . I don’t blame them one bit .
 
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Mattin91

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. Virginity doesn’t really exist . It’s just a women or man who hasn’t had sex yet. That’s a ridiculous way to define a person . Are they smart ? Are they quiet? Are they educated? Do they like Led Zeppelin or country music? All of these are better ways to define a person even if the description is incomplete . Do you know the state of their sex organs that you had nothing to do with ? That’s ridiculous and unnecessarily intrusive!

The gays are celebrating that they can openly walk the streets without being murdered, beaten , raped, arrested, fined, and/or jailed . I don’t blame them one bit .


I suspected the false equivalence argument was coming. Virginity and self-control matters. It's a testament to the strength of building moral character. Of understanding what human sexuality means. Of not putting the cart before the horse for a moment of pleasure. Kids come out of marriage and do best in stable homes with parents that understand self-control, moderation and practice other good, moral habits.
 
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Zoii

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the fact is God exists.
Hi Mattin
With all due respect, the question of Gods existence is not a fact. More's the pity. It would solve religious differences. The existence of God is a belief that varies according to where you live.

The understanding of what God is, is very much driven by the country you are born in and your upbringing.

If you are born in India or Nepal, then you are very likely to understand God in terms of Gods many attributes - You may be aware they have numerous Gods but in point of fact it has some analogy to Christianity in that its simply a reflection of one God having many faces and attributes.


if you are born in Indonesia or the middle east, then you are likely to understand God from the perspective of Islam

if its the USA then its likely to be from the perspective of Christianity

You get my point - God isnt a fact - its your belief and that belief is driven by your upbringing and where you are born.

The nice thing is that all religions have something in common - They espouse an ethical paradigm that aims to make us decent human beings

So coming back to the OP - Whatever your view of who or what God is, a belief that alienates and harms a complete gender, moves away from the intended paradigm of all religions - ie being a good person and doing no harm.
 
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Zoii

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Virginity and self-control matters. It's a testament to the strength of building moral character. Of understanding what human sexuality means.

I'm not having a dig at you when I ask this question - Why are religious people (Christians, Jews, Moslems, Hindus) so hung up about sex - what is it in common with yours and other religions that you see sex as perverse except if it exists within a very narrow scope.
 
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Paidiske

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And that creates problems. An ignorance about spiritual things which science cannot explain to them. So some people believe they are animals who live and die, and nothing more. There are those that think science has 'explained' religion. And religion does not mean anything or is not real, aside from a set of beliefs. It is the duty of every Christian to tell people, "Science cannot tell you the whole story. Things you need to live. To know God."

Science cannot do certain things but the Catholic Church can combine science with Divine Revelation to give people the whole complete answer. The Church is not limited like science.

Well, it's not just Catholicism that can build a good, healthy, integrated worldview.

And I would argue that saying that "the Church is not limited like science" misses the point. Both are limited in different ways. The Church has no more business trying to proclaim scientific paradigms as doctrine than science does trying to explain religion.
 
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coffee4u

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Disgusting.

I could have gone all day without that. This is more than run-of-the-mill misogyny, isn't it? This is some special kind of weirdness. I'm not questioning that it is misogynistic, but isn't it more off than that?

Sounds like it's bordering on paedophilia and incest. :/
 
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Mattin91

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Well, it's not just Catholicism that can build a good, healthy, integrated worldview.

And I would argue that saying that "the Church is not limited like science" misses the point. Both are limited in different ways. The Church has no more business trying to proclaim scientific paradigms as doctrine than science does trying to explain religion.


The Church has a duty to proclaim the truth and to comment on scientific matters, especially when science attempts to comment on man. Since it too views the world in an integrated way, it can comment on scientific claims. The Church is not limited to only faith and morals.
 
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Paidiske

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The Church has a duty to proclaim the truth and to comment on scientific matters, especially when science attempts to comment on man. Since it too views the world in an integrated way, it can comment on scientific claims. The Church is not limited to only faith and morals.

If the Church wishes to comment on scientific matters, it must do so from within a scientific paradigm. To attempt to do so from within a theological paradigm is meaningless. That said, the Church is perfectly free to - and must - articulate theological claims which go beyond what science can say.

What I am trying to say is that we must be careful, and educated, enough not to make category errors in how we speak and write, whether on science or theology.
 
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Mattin91

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I'm not having a dig at you when I ask this question - Why are religious people (Christians, Jews, Moslems, Hindus) so hung up about sex - what is it in common with yours and other religions that you see sex as perverse except if it exists within a very narrow scope.


Human sexuality was meant for having children. Sex is not "dirty." Not in marriage. Any other use of sex is by definition outside of its normal use. More problems are caused by the misuse of human sexuality, both for the individual and society in general.

I used to listen to Larry King. One day, he decided the Catholic Church was spending too much time talking about sex. So he called up his Catholic Bishop or Cardinal friend. It went like this.

Larry: Why is the Church obsessed about sex?
Friend: "Larry. You're the one calling me."

They got together and both realized that what was going on was the Church responding to real-world events.
 
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Mattin91

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If the Church wishes to comment on scientific matters, it must do so from within a scientific paradigm. To attempt to do so from within a theological paradigm is meaningless. That said, the Church is perfectly free to - and must - articulate theological claims which go beyond what science can say.

What I am trying to say is that we must be careful, and educated, enough not to make category errors in how we speak and write, whether on science or theology.


Thank you for your reply. Meaning, as it applies to man, starts with theology and corrects scientific claims. To say it is meaningless suggests you are not familiar with any Church statements that apply. From the document, Communion and Stewardship.


"But it is important to note that, according to the Catholic understanding of divine causality, true contingency in the created order is not incompatible with a purposeful divine providence. Divine causality and created causality radically differ in kind and not only in degree. Thus, even the outcome of a truly contingent natural process can nonetheless fall within God’s providential plan for creation. According to St. Thomas Aquinas: “The effect of divine providence is not only that things should happen somehow, but that they should happen either by necessity or by contingency. Therefore, whatsoever divine providence ordains to happen infallibly and of necessity happens infallibly and of necessity; and that happens from contingency, which the divine providence conceives to happen from contingency” (Summa theologiae, I, 22,4 ad 1). In the Catholic perspective, neo-Darwinians who adduce random genetic variation and natural selection as evidence that the process of evolution is absolutely unguided are straying beyond what can be demonstrated by science. Divine causality can be active in a process that is both contingent and guided. Any evolutionary mechanism that is contingent can only be contingent because God made it so. An unguided evolutionary process – one that falls outside the bounds of divine providence – simply cannot exist because “the causality of God, Who is the first agent, extends to all being, not only as to constituent principles of species, but also as to the individualizing principles....It necessarily follows that all things, inasmuch as they participate in existence, must likewise be subject to divine providence” (Summa theologiae I, 22, 2). "
 
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Paidiske

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Meaning, as it applies to man, starts with theology and corrects scientific claims. To say it is meaningless suggests you are not familiar with any Church statements that apply.

"Meaning" is not a scientific category.

What I am saying is that theology does not impinge on science, nor should it. Science cannot test providence; God is not a falsifiable hypothesis.
 
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Zoii

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Human sexuality was meant for having children

Any other use of sex is by definition outside of its normal use.

Are you saying if a couple is having sex, NOT for the purpose of having children, that in your opinion is perverse or disgusting or wrong in some way?

More problems are caused by the misuse of human sexuality, both for the individual and society in general.

Misuse - Are you saying sex is a "Misuse" if its not for the purpose of having children?
 
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NeverL0ved

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This is disgusting!

It’s not possible to check a girl’s hymen and be sure that it’s intact. For example, if she’s athletic she’s not going to have one. This explains a lot why older women ( my generation and older) were discouraged from being physically active as children. This inactivity is why so many older women have osteoporosis.

This practice also teaches daughters and women that they are a man’s property and that their only worth depends on apiece of skin that they might not have in the first place.

Some women “ watch “ their daughters periods. Not to keep track of them for health reasons but to harass the daughter over a sex life they
might or might not be getting . It’s the same type of emotionally abusive behavior .
See, this is why I want to live in a cave with the bear's. I think bear's are better people.
 
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Mattin91

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"Meaning" is not a scientific category.

What I am saying is that theology does not impinge on science, nor should it. Science cannot test providence; God is not a falsifiable hypothesis.


Theology does impinge on science. That is why the Church has written so much about it.

Science is trying to define "meaning" for the average person.
 
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