Miranda Devine: Reverse racism is now acceptable in Australia

[Paidiske]

People still generalise, though, Dave.

 

[Dave-W]

-Racism is oppression plus power.

No. Racism is racially-based bias. (for or against)

 

[Dave-W]

People still generalise, though, Dave.

I understand they do. But IMO that is just showing ignorance.

Like in the 18th and 19th century Colonies and the early US - Irish were NOT considered white. Ignorance.

Have you ever read about the Irish slaves? (there was no "trade" as they were considered completely useless)

 

[Paidiske]

I am aware of them, yes.

And of course it's ignorant. But that doesn't change the fact that a resume from Henry Kent is going to get a very different response to that of Jacob Mbenga, on average.

 

[Dave-W]

a resume from Henry Kent is going to get a very different response to that of Jacob Mbenga, on average.

Or Yakov Rabinowitz. Or Abdula Mohamed.

 

[Paidiske]

Indeed.

 

[Redac]

I understand they do. But IMO that is just showing ignorance.

Like in the 18th and 19th century Colonies and the early US - Irish were NOT considered white. Ignorance.

Have you ever read about the Irish slaves? (there was no "trade" as they were considered completely useless)

This is a common talking point, but it's not true. Irish were considered white since the beginning of the United States.

 

[Dave-W]

This is a common talking point, but it's not true. Irish were considered white since the beginning of the United States.

 

[Redac]

View attachment 197074View attachment 197075

Lol, a book by a guy who advocates for the abolition of "whiteness", and something presumably about slavery and indentured servitude of some Irish people prior to bringing over large numbers of Africans.

Two things for you to consider. First, this cartoon:

Notice that it says "White" under the Irish caricature. As in, the Irish -- more specifically, the poor, uneducated Catholic ones -- are white people who are considered to be just as bad as blacks are in some way. They were never, ever actually considered to be racially non-white.

Second, consider the first immigration and naturalization law ever passed by the United States Congress in 1790. It stipulated that the only people who could naturalize as citizens of the United States were free whites of good character. Note also that Irish people had been immigrating to the United States for quite some time before independence, and continued to do so even before the larger waves in the middle of the 19th century. Irish people were a big part of the American Revolution, too -- one of the signers of the Declaration of Independence, Charles Carroll, was apparently the direct descendant of some minor Irish noble clan. Andrew Jackson was born to two Northern Irish immigrants, and he became the President. Do you seriously think any of that would have happened if the Irish were ever, at any point, considered to be non-white? The entire notion that the Irish weren't considered white and had to be "made white" is utter nonsense. If they weren't thought of as white, they wouldn't have played the role they did so early on in American history.

(And in case you or anyone else is curious, the same applies for Italians too. There were Italian-Americans in the United States probably as early as there were Irish, maybe even earlier.)

 

[rambot]

I have a white granddaughter named Ushio. My son and his wife are both big fans of Japanese Anime/Monga. So they named their firstborn after a favorite character in one of their stories.

An "Ethnic sounding name" means nothing anymore.

Sure. Well there you have it! One anecdoctal answer from Dave. Obviously, with a name like Dave, he must be Maasi given that "ethnic sounding name" means nothing anymore.

So if I say the name "Ahmed Ali" you think of a white dude right? Or perhaps "Shaniqua" harkens back to the time you spent in the Phillipines and you just think...."Asian".

 

[rambot]

No. It is any bias (for or against) someone based on race or perceived race.

Google

These are the only definitions I have ever known and the only definitions I accept.

 

[greenguzzi]

You'd have a point if I were actually trying to condescend to you in that post. It was a clarification that I thought may have been necessary. I don't know you, and I don't know what you do and don't know. The "I don't like memes, they are irrelevant" line led me to believe that you thought I was referring to image macros or something like that. It's also incredibly common to see and hear people on the internet and in real life using the term "meme" to refer to funny image macros specifically, rather than more broadly to ideas, behaviors, beliefs, etc. that spread from person to person within a given culture. Good on you for knowing what it means, but my experience is not that it's something almost everyone knows.

Anyway, if the idea in question -- white privilege -- continues to be spread and perpetuated throughout the culture, then it will have wider ramifications regardless of its actual truth value. I would say that has some relevance to this discussion, whatever you want to call it.

Privilege is real. A really personal example is that I was born a British citizen. Other than my genes and two loving parents, it was pretty much the only asset I had when I ventured beyond the care of my parents at the age of 16. But this one asset turned out to be a huge advantage for me. Actually it was two assets: My British citizenship and my white skin. Because of these two advantages I was able to find a career I love that pays the bills and lets me live where and how I desire.

But right now on Manus Island there are some people who were just as poor as I was, maybe even less poor, who wanted the same chance that I did. But because they didn't have the right papers or the right coloured skin they are imprisoned for years for no crime.

So yes, privilege is real. Yes I benefited from it, yes I am ashamed that my government randomly brutalises people just like I was, yes I am grateful that I was born in at the right time with the right papers and the right coloured skin. But having benefited from that privileged, I sure as heck ain't going to pretend it isn't real!

 

[Dave-W]

One anecdoctal answer from Dave. Obviously, with a name like Dave, he must be Maasi given that "ethnic sounding name" means nothing anymore.

Do you know what the most popular name in China is right now? David Liu. (or over there it would be Liu David)

So clearly I must be Chinese since I am named David.

Not.

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

Do you know what the most popular name in China is right now? David Liu. (or over there it would be Liu David)

So clearly I must be Chinese since I am named David.

Not.

I'm not sure where you got David Liu, since Chinese people would have Chinese names. They'd also have three names, not two.

Liu is a common family name, but not the most common AFAIK. Most common names are Chen, Wang and Li

For the record, the most popular name I can find for male babies last year is 张伟, pronounced Zhang Wei, so your typical Chinese (mainlander) kid is probably Chen Zhang Wei

 

[rambot]

Do you know what the most popular name in China is right now? David Liu. (or over there it would be Liu David)

So clearly I must be Chinese since I am named David.

Not.

there it is at number ......The ten most popular Chinese male and female names. | The World of Chinese