Miranda Devine: Reverse racism is now acceptable in Australia

[Redac]

Because you seemed to assume that I didn't know something that most people know. If you are going to be condescending it's a good idea to also be accurate.

You'd have a point if I were actually trying to condescend to you in that post. It was a clarification that I thought may have been necessary. I don't know you, and I don't know what you do and don't know. The "I don't like memes, they are irrelevant" line led me to believe that you thought I was referring to image macros or something like that. It's also incredibly common to see and hear people on the internet and in real life using the term "meme" to refer to funny image macros specifically, rather than more broadly to ideas, behaviors, beliefs, etc. that spread from person to person within a given culture. Good on you for knowing what it means, but my experience is not that it's something almost everyone knows.

Anyway, if the idea in question -- white privilege -- continues to be spread and perpetuated throughout the culture, then it will have wider ramifications regardless of its actual truth value. I would say that has some relevance to this discussion, whatever you want to call it.

 

[Paidiske]

Intersectionality is important to bear in mind when talking about privilege.

I think that although it's probably the case that not everything claimed about the dynamics of privilege is true, talking about the concept of privilege and how it might or might not operate is a very useful tool for reflection.

 

[Redac]

Intersectionality is important to bear in mind when talking about privilege.

I think that although it's probably the case that not everything claimed about the dynamics of privilege is true, talking about the concept of privilege and how it might or might not operate is a very useful tool for reflection.

Okay. Let's say it's been reflected on. Now what?

 

[Paidiske]

Okay... so let's say, for example, I realise that it's part of my privilege that I have access to clean drinking water where millions in the world do not, and suffer adverse health effects for it.

There are all sorts of things I might do in response to that, from fund raise to support charities elsewhere to voting for parties with good international aid policies, but the key things are:
- that I recognise the difference between me and those people
- that I recognise that as injustice
- that I am willing to act in some way (however small) to reduce that injustice. Even if it's simply the fact that I publicly name it as an injustice instead of "the way things are and shall be, world without end, amen."

 

[Rion]

There's no such thing as reverse racism. Racism against whites is just racism.

Mhmm. So when whites aren't a majority anymore, does our supposed privilege go away too? If not, at what point does it stop?

No, because they've redefined what 'white' means now.

 

[Redac]

Okay... so let's say, for example, I realise that it's part of my privilege that I have access to clean drinking water where millions in the world do not, and suffer adverse health effects for it.

There are all sorts of things I might do in response to that, from fund raise to support charities elsewhere to voting for parties with good international aid policies, but the key things are:
- that I recognise the difference between me and those people
- that I recognise that as injustice
- that I am willing to act in some way (however small) to reduce that injustice. Even if it's simply the fact that I publicly name it as an injustice instead of "the way things are and shall be, world without end, amen."

I suspect you and I might have different ideas about what constitutes an injustice; I don't think differences between people necessarily constitute an injustice. It can, but not always.

But that aside, what about white privilege specifically? What sorts of injustices would you say result from white privilege in Western countries that need to be recognized and dealt with? There are obviously a lot that have been proposed, so even just an example or two for the sake of discussion would be fine.

 

[Redac]

No, because they've redefined what 'white' means now.

Mostly I just hear that being white doesn't actually mean anything, except being someone who unconsciously perpetuates systems of oppression.

 

[MoonlessNight]

Intersectionality is important to bear in mind when talking about privilege.

I think that although it's probably the case that not everything claimed about the dynamics of privilege is true, talking about the concept of privilege and how it might or might not operate is a very useful tool for reflection.

I agree.

It is extremely important to keep in mind as many buzzwords as possible when you are worried that you might actually have to contemplate reality.

 

[MoonlessNight]

There's no such thing as reverse racism. Racism against whites is just racism.



No, because they've redefined what 'white' means now.

Basically it goes like this:

-Racism is oppression plus power. If you don't have power, then you can't be racist.
-Power does not refer to your individual power, but the overall power of your group. You could be a billionaire but if you belong to an oppressed group, then you don't have power for the purpose of determining whether you are racist.
-The power of your group is determined by how often it has been the victim of racism or similar bigotry. Its actual numbers and such don't matter, only how much racism it has experienced.

You only get the "privilege" definition of racism by accepting all three points. Of course, the three together imply that there are certain groups that have power and are racist and others that lack power and cannot be racist, not because of anything that is true about their real and historical power, but simply because some groups are inherently racist oppressors and some groups are inherently saintly victims. That is, if you really accept the full argument, then there is absolutely nothing which can possibly change the classification of a group.

Of course this is absurd and has nothing whatsoever to do with how normal people use the words "power" and "racism." If the theory was ever presented in its entirety all at once, no one would ever accept it. But instead each part is taught individually, usually more by browbeating with the threat of being called a racist if you disagree, with the intention that no one ever thinks about what the individual parts mean when put together as a group.

 

[Paidiske]

But that aside, what about white privilege specifically? What sorts of injustices would you say result from white privilege in Western countries that need to be recognized and dealt with? There are obviously a lot that have been proposed, so even just an example or two for the sake of discussion would be fine.

One of the easiest ones to deal with, I suspect, would be employment practices. We know that, all other things being equal, a white person is more likely to get hired; so structuring our hiring processes to reduce that (whether that be removing names from resumes for a first screening, or very carefully managed interview processes etc) is one thing that is not hard to do.

 

[MoonlessNight]

One of the easiest ones to deal with, I suspect, would be employment practices. We know that, all other things being equal, a white person is more likely to get hired; so structuring our hiring processes to reduce that (whether that be removing names from resumes for a first screening, or very carefully managed interview processes etc) is one thing that is not hard to do.

"All other things" are never equal. Give me two candidates, one white and one black, and I guarantee that I will be able to find at least three other work related differences between them.

 

[Paidiske]

I agree. But these things are not always readily apparent at first glance; and many employment decisions are made well before even the interview stage.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Mostly I just hear that being white doesn't actually mean anything, except being someone who unconsciously perpetuates systems of oppression.

Which is pretty much nonsense...

The argument that there's no "white" race or "white culture" is forwarded mainly by those who don't want to extend the same racial/cultural courtesy to whites that they extend to everyone else.

The problem is, at least in the U.S., most minorities deal with issues of "acting too white" or "when to act white" within their own communities. These problems/perceptions wouldn't exist if there wasn't a white race/culture/social construct.

 

[rambot]

"All other things" are never equal. Give me two candidates, one white and one black, and I guarantee that I will be able to find at least three other work related differences between them.

Then there must be something very special about you. Because the studies that have demonstrated this have been based on virtually identical resumes and nothing else. Out of curiousity, how can you find two or three work related differences between them?

 

[Ana the Ist]

One of the easiest ones to deal with, I suspect, would be employment practices. We know that, all other things being equal, a white person is more likely to get hired;

The only studies I've seen were about getting called for an interview...not getting hired. Do you have any studies about getting hired?

 

[Paidiske]

Since getting an interview is generally an integral part of getting hired, I think they're really the same thing.

 

[rambot]

The only studies I've seen were about getting called for an interview...not getting hired. Do you have any studies about getting hired?

And those studies gave "ethnic sounding" names.

 

[Dave-W]

Because it's racism against the majority. That seriously needed to be explained?

But it is still a racial bias; (racism) no matter who it is against.

So what would be the reverse of any racial bias?

 

[Dave-W]

Racism is a PERSONAL perception of inferiority.

No. It is any bias (for or against) someone based on race or perceived race.

 

[Dave-W]

And those studies gave "ethnic sounding" names.

I have a white granddaughter named Ushio. My son and his wife are both big fans of Japanese Anime/Monga. So they named their firstborn after a favorite character in one of their stories.

An "Ethnic sounding name" means nothing anymore.