Millennial Considerations

[BABerean2]

If that was already true when Adam died, I guess that pretty much makes Jesus a liar on numerous occasions, such as the following.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Jesus also said the following.


Mat_10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

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[Truth7t7]

I think it would be a fallacy to believe Isaiah was written in Chronological order. Revelation is.

I think it would be a fallacy to believe Isaiah was written in Chronological order. Revelation is.

Sorry Revelation is not in chronological order.

The second advent/end of the world is seen in Revelation 11:15-18 for example

also several other places, it is taught in "Parallel" teachings of same events.

 

[seventysevens]

If that was already true when Adam died, I guess that pretty much makes Jesus a liar on numerous occasions, such as the following.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

There is more to it than that , and Jesus was expressing something in particular to the religious leader of the time , if you were a undefeated champion in a sport and make a claim that you are the best there is , , and someone said that you claim to be the best person there is , it shows an entirely different contextual meaning ,
No scripture addresses what happened to Adam , and there is scripture that shows God took Enoch - that he did not die - but yet some people say Enoch is not with God and others - so it must be investigated to understand - teaching soul sleep is false , No that doesn't make Jesus a liar -

 

[Truth7t7]

If that was already twhen Adam died, meaning the way you seem to be interpreting that verse to mean, I guess that pretty much makes Jesus a liar on numerous occasions, such as the following.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

You have The Lord In A Shoebox

God Is Omnipresent, Isaiah 66:1, Psalms 139:7-8

As previously stated, where ever Luke 16:19-31 is, there will be a place of comfort for the righteous, awaiting the last day resurrection.

Hell is clearly explained throughout the scripture, where the Rich Man went, a place of torment as the flame.

 

[DavidPT]

To be absent from the body, present with the Lord 2 Corinthians 5:6-8

To state Abrahams Bossom is a figure of speech in biblical reference to Luke 16:19-31

If you would like to use the term " Present With The Lord" we can use that, if it helps your rational, human reasoning

As Luke 16:19-31 clearly shows a place of comfort for the righteous, and a place of torment "Hell" for the wicked.

Combining some of Revelation 20:4 with some of Revelation 20:6, we end up with the following, as an example.

and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands---Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection---but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


Do or do not the souls in in Revelation 20:4 have part in the first resurrection? Does or does not that text in Revelation 20:6 plainly and clearly indicate, those that have part in the first resurrection, they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years?

What then are some of these priestly duties these souls are performing in heaven while reigning with Christ a thousand years while in heaven, where these souls are still bodiless at this point, meaning in a scenario such as this one?

 

[Truth7t7]

All scripture, including the one you quoted here is true. However, if you consider all scripture, there are plenty that contradict your interpretation of this particular passage.

Take for example these two very simple verses. There are many others, as I posted earlier, but for now these will do.

Psalm 115:17
The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence.

Psalm 146:4
When his breath departs, he returns to the earth; on that very day his plans perish.

So I assume that you believe these to be true, just as I believe 2 Corinthians 5:6-8 to be true, otherwise there's no point in continuing to debate with somebody who does not believe the Bible to be true.

So if on the one hand you have scripture that says you return to the earth when you die, and on the other hand you have scripture that says "to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord", which of these two more definitively explains what happens when you die?

Keep in mind that 2 Corinthians 5 does not even mention death, yet my two examples do clearly mention death. You could infer death from the words, as you have obviously done, but you have to admit it doesn't actually mention it.

So do you take two clear passages that need no interpretation or inferencing, or do you explain them away while accepting your own interpretation of a much less clear passage? And if so, how do you explain them away?

Last response to you concerning "Soul Sleep" & "Hell"

Luke 16:19-31 is a very clear teaching on the soul departed from the body upon death.

A place of conscious comfort/torment, with knowledge of the previous physical world, "I Have Five Brothers"

2 Corinthians 5:6-8 also clearly represents the soul away from the body is present with the Lord.

I will stick with these very clear teachings.

We will disagree

 

[DavidPT]

You have The Lord In A Shoebox

God Is Omnipresent, Isaiah 66:1, Psalms 139:7-8

As previously stated, where ever Luke 16:19-31 is, there will be a place of comfort for the righteous, awaiting the last day resurrection.

Hell is clearly explained throughout the scripture, where the Rich Man went, a place of torment as the flame.

Actually though, you contradict yourself, because if the LORD is literally physically present everywhere, such as you seem to believe, one one would already be present with the LORD without having to be absent from the body first. I don't think you are understanding His omnipresence correctly myself. There are numerous ways He can achieve that without actually being physically present there. Such as through His angels, they could be like eyes for Him, etc.

Genesis 18:21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.


The LORD is apparently the speaker here. If one is literally physically present everywhere, that one would not need to go down anywhere, that one would already be there.

 

[DavidPT]

Jesus also said the following.


Mat_10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

.

What exactly is your point though? How does this relate to what we have currently been discussing?

 

[Truth7t7]

Actually though, you contradict yourself, because if the LORD is literally physically present everywhere, such as you seem to believe, one one would already be present with the LORD without having to be absent from the body first. I don't think you are understanding His omnipresence correctly myself. There are numerous ways He can achieve that without actually being physically present there. Such as through His angels, they could be like eyes for Him, etc.

Genesis 18:21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.


The LORD is apparently the speaker here. If one is literally physically present everywhere, that one would not need to go down anywhere, that one would already be there.

God is outside your time and world, he is at the first day of creation, and in the eternal kingdom all at the same time.

"Way Toooo Big For Your Shoebox Dave

Alpha Omega, The Beginning And The End, The First And Last. Revelation 22:13

Can your human reasoning explain that

 

[Marilyn C]

Throughout the history of the nation of Israel there were two different groups of Israelites.
One group rejected God and the other group remained faithful to God.

During the Exodus Korah led a rebellion against Moses, while others remained faithful.

During the time of Elijah most had turned to Baal worship, while the remnant of 7,000 remained faithful.
In Romans 11 Paul said the same was true during his time and the same is true today.

All of the nation of Israel did not reject Christ.

In the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34 God deals with individuals, based on faith.


Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:


Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.


Rom 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:


Based on what Christ said on the road to Emmaus, the whole Old Testament is about Him.
Luke 24:25-27.

The purpose of the nation of Israel was to produce the seed of the woman from Genesis 3:15.

He is the seed of Abraham through which all the nations would be blessed in Genesis chapter 12.

Mat 1:1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

Hi BABerean,

I agree with you there, so far. Now can you say why God went to the trouble of making Israel and working with them, when He could have prophesied something different and had Jesus come many centuries earlier. If that is all Israel`s purpose to produce the seed, then the Lord could have come earlier.

What do you say? Marilyn.

 

[Marilyn C]

I would appreciate if you "Stop The Bro" thing with me, thanks.

You are jumping in mid stream, and don't have a clue on what's going on.

Once again I request you stop the Bro, thanks

OK Truth7t7,

I hear you. Marilyn.

 

[Truth7t7]

OK Truth7t7,

I hear you. Marilyn.

Thanks!

 

[Truth7t7]

Hi BABerean,

I agree with you there, so far. Now can you say why God went to the trouble of making Israel and working with them, when He could have prophesied something different and had Jesus come many centuries earlier. If that is all Israel`s purpose to produce the seed, then the Lord could have come earlier.

What do you say? Marilyn.

The fact of God's plan has absolutely nothing to do with your human reasoning.

Israel Is The Church, Children Of The Promised Seed. Romans 9:6-8

The children of the flesh "Jews" these are not the children of God.

Plain and simple

God is the potter, you are the clay

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

oops. big mistake.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

excerpt from a Commentary on Revelation

Many readers of the Bible treat it as though it were like a "puzzle-picture," where we have to"find a face," or "a man," or some other object. No matter what part of the Bible may be read, theone object seems to be to "find the Church." For, the "Word of truth" not being rightly divided, orindeed divided at all, the whole Bible is supposed to be about every one, in every part, and in everyage; and the Church is supposed to be its on pervading subject.This arises from our own natural selfishness."

 

[DavidPT]

God is outside your time and world, he is at the first day of creation, and in the eternal kingdom all at the same time.

"Way Toooo Big For Your Shoebox Dave

Alpha Omega, The Beginning And The End, The First And Last. Revelation 22:13

Can your human reasoning explain that

Then simply explain why a being who is allegedly literally physically present everywhere at the same time, why this being needs to go down and see for Himself if He were already literally physically there? It's not human reasoning so much, it's called using God given common sense from to time to time.










'

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Then simply explain why a being who is allegedly literally physically present everywhere at the same time, why this being needs to go down and see for Himself if He were already literally physically there? It's not human reasoning so much, it's called using God given common sense from to time to time.

Not clay vs potter agin..... ?

 

[Marilyn C]

The fact of God's plan has absolutely nothing to do with your human reasoning.

Israel Is The Church, Children Of The Promised Seed. Romans 9:6-8

The children of the flesh "Jews" these are not the children of God.

Plain and simple

God is the potter, you are the clay

If Israel is the Church, then why wasn`t it declared that that was the Body of Christ way back then, when in actual fact it was a new revelation through the Apostle Paul, (by the Holy Spirit)?

 

[LastSeven]

You stated Drivel many times , just trying to get you to look at things that are not stemming from people who teach amil , then your eyes will open, but you prefer to keep them closed

Once again, give me some scripture to show me the error of my ways. Your words mean nothing to me.

 

[LastSeven]

You believe in "Soul Sleep" and deny "Hell"

o.k. And you believe a parable where people in heaven can talk to people in hell is a true story.