Mike Huckabee: How can Obama support same-sex marriage and call himself a Christian?

[Loudmouth]

For those wanting to support these supposed christian groups that have been "wrongly labelled" as hate groups, perhaps you should get to know the people you are protecting.

http://www.splcenter.org/get-inform...browse-all-issues/2010/winter/the-hard-liners

My favorite thus far is the Chalcedon Foundation. Does anyone think we should be tolerant of the hate they are spreading?

The Chalcedon Foundation, named after a 451 A.D. council that proclaimed the state’s subservience to God, was started in 1965 by Rousas John Rushdoony, who is known as “father of Christian Reconstruction” theology. Led by Rushdoony’s son, Mark, since the elder Rushdoony’s death in 2001, the foundation continues to push for the imposition of Old Testament law on America and the world.

Reconstruction, as described in R.J. Rushdoony’s foundational 1973 book The Institutes of Biblical Law, is opposed to modern notions of equality, democracy or tolerance — instead, it embraces the most draconian of religious views. Rushdoony supported the death penalty for homosexuals, among other “abominators.” He also opposed what he called “unequal yoking” — interracial marriage — and “enforced integration,” insisting that “[a]ll men are NOT created equal before God” (the Bible, he explained, “recognizes that some people are by nature slaves&#8221. Rushdoony also denied the Holocaust, saying the murder of 6 million Jews was “false witness.”​

 

[Water Cross]

How many of those arrests occurred on American soil?

That wasn't the issue.

They "support" those scriptures by spreading hate and threatening violence against homosexuals. That is why they are considered hate groups.

When has any group that SPLC listed as a Christian hate group threatened violence against gays? Please cite your proofs.

Is there a reason that we should be tolerant of people who threaten violence against people that never harmed them?

See above.

 

[Water Cross]

I wasn't going to, in the first place. There's no need to argue with them anyway. I know that according to Scripture, they are spiritually blind and cannot understand the things of God and their minds are enmity against God. So, it's moot to argue with them about spiritual things. I don't think arguing with them over such things is the answer and I don't think it will help the situation. I won't argue with those who profess Christ either. We are instructed in Scripture not to be argumentative or quarrelsome with other people, especially toward other believers.

A beautiful resolve. One that many of us should consider adopting as well. Thank you.
It is especially troubling to witness Christians who rebuke scripture in such matters.

Thank you for the resources. I appreciate it.

My pleasure.

That is true. So much for tolerance.

I do not think theirs is an argument for universal tolerance wherein they'd be obligated to reciprocate. Rather, I think it is their intention to demand to be tolerated, while being seen as justified when they are intolerant, bigoted, and bully those they deem worthy.

Amen. I can't personally change the man-laws that condone homosexuality, abortion and pornography (or any other sin that God condemns) but that doesn't mean I have to support such laws or believe them to be right and acceptable. Man's law does not trump God's Law.

Amen! All things occur according to God's planning and will for the world he has predestined to be and become.

 

[Loudmouth]

That wasn't the issue.

That's exactly the issue.

When has any group that SPLC listed as a Christian hate group threatened violence against gays? Please cite your proofs.

See above.

Take a look at one of the groups you are siding with.

The Chalcedon Foundation, named after a 451 A.D. council that proclaimed the state’s subservience to God, was started in 1965 by Rousas John Rushdoony, who is known as “father of Christian Reconstruction” theology. Led by Rushdoony’s son, Mark, since the elder Rushdoony’s death in 2001, the foundation continues to push for the imposition of Old Testament law on America and the world.

Reconstruction, as described in R.J. Rushdoony’s foundational 1973 book The Institutes of Biblical Law, is opposed to modern notions of equality, democracy or tolerance — instead, it embraces the most draconian of religious views. Rushdoony supported the death penalty for homosexuals, among other “abominators.” He also opposed what he called “unequal yoking” — interracial marriage — and “enforced integration,” insisting that “[a]ll men are NOT created equal before God” (the Bible, he explained, “recognizes that some people are by nature slaves”). Rushdoony also denied the Holocaust, saying the murder of 6 million Jews was “false witness.”

Rushdoony’s Reconstruction is indeed radical, even including “incorrigible children” among those deserving death. And virtually all of his works remain for sale on the Chalcedon Foundation website.
http://www.splcenter.org/get-inform...browse-all-issues/2010/winter/the-hard-liners
​

 

[revanneosl]

When has any group that SPLC listed as a Christian hate group threatened violence against gays? Please cite your proofs.

Scott Lively & "Abiding Truth Ministries" were instrumental in passing the legislation that punishes homosexual activity with death in Uganda. That's more than just a threat. It's judicial murder.

 

[Water Cross]

That's exactly the issue.

Not when you go back and read the original post by the member here and to whom I was responding.

 

[Water Cross]

Scott Lively & "Abiding Truth Ministries" were instrumental in passing the legislation that punishes homosexual activity with death in Uganda. That's more than just a threat. It's judicial murder.

That Legislation was overturned and no longer applies in Uganda.

 

[TLK Valentine]

That Legislation was overturned and no longer applies in Uganda.

That doesn't negate their role in enacting it.

 

[DiligentlySeekingGod]

A beautiful resolve. One that many of us should consider adopting as well. Thank you.
It is especially troubling to witness Christians who rebuke scripture in such matters.

I have been doing a lot of thinking about arguing theology or other spiritual issues with unbelievers. As I said before, Scripture tells us that unbelievers are spiritually blind and unable to understand the things of God. Scripture tells us that their minds are an enmity against God, just as ours once were, before God saved us. Therefore, it seems senseless for me to argue over spiritual issues and a biblical worldview with an unbeliever when they will not be able to spiritually discern the things of God for themselves. As the Apostle Paul said, "For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God" (1 Corinthians 1:18). They are spiritually dead, living in spiritual darkness, and until the light of the Lord shines upon them, that is where they will remain. I have been feeling led to approach evangelism and witnessing in a totally different manner than I have before. However, I do admire our brethren who can effectively debate with unbelievers, such as Ken Ham and Ray Comfort. These two gentlemen are truly anointed by the Lord, in my humble opinion. And lastly, I also find it very disheartening to encounter rebuke against the Scriptures from other people who profess to be Christian themselves. I truly find it unbelievable to hear self-professing Christians question and doubt the sole authority of the Word of God. I also find it disheartening to encounter self-professing Christians who blatantly support and condone homosexuality and abortion (and any other sinful behavior). They may profess Christ with their lips but it is obvious, from the very fruits of their lives and by the words out of their mouth, that their heart is far from Him.

Jesus said that from out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. Scripture tells us that God desires "truth in the inward parts" (Psalm 51:6). He sees lust as adultery and hatred as murder and He hates a lying tongue. The rock biblical truth is that if you profess Christ, you cannot have one foot in the Church and the other foot in the world. You cannot be a friend of the world without becoming an enemy of God, no matter what you profess to believe. A true and genuine believer in Christ would turn from their sins in repentance, crucifying their flesh, with all its worldly desires and passions, and they would not condone any kind of sin that God condemns. They would not be purposely running into sin, but they would be yielding and submitting their will to God and to the lead of the Holy Spirit. "Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness" (2 Timothy 2:19). And that is the rock solid biblical truth. I'll step down from my soapbox now. God bless you, sister in Christ. I want to encourage you to keep fighting the good fight of faith, my sister in Christ.

"For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." (2 Corinthians 5:21)

"But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him." (Romans 5:8-9)

 

[TLK Valentine]

The rock biblical truth is that if you profess Christ, you cannot have one foot in the Church and the other foot in the world. You cannot be a friend of the world without becoming an enemy of God, no matter what you profess to believe.

Doesn't this signify a serious problem for Huckabee, or indeed, anyone who seeks to use political office as a means of spreading the Gospel?

First of all, one does not achieve political power without becoming a friend of the world -- or at least a 51% majority of the voting world.

Second, once one attains office, they have a responsibility to serve their constituents -- all of them, not just the ones who share his beliefs. And should those constituents desire something that runs afoul of religious beliefs, but not necessarily the laws of the land...

Third, situations may arise which would require him, for the good of his people, to compromise or even outright forsake his Christian values. And correct me if I'm wrong, but God is not a fan of compromise.

Nevertheless, there are situations in which the "Christian" thing to do is not what's best for the country. Can you imagine what would've happened if, in the wake of 9/11, George Bush (himself a professed Christian, and who am I to dispute it?) decided to turn to Matthew 5:39 for inspiration?

My guess? By the morning of September 12, he would've been strung up from the Washington Monument for this very Christ-like gesture -- and make no mistake: his fellow Christians would be holding the rope.

One would think that Matthew 6:24 would discourage Christians from politics -- surprisingly, it doesn't.

 

[mafwons]

Doesn't this signify a serious problem for Huckabee, or indeed, anyone who seeks to use political office as a means of spreading the Gospel?

First of all, one does not achieve political power without becoming a friend of the world -- or at least a 51% majority of the voting world.

Second, once one attains office, they have a responsibility to serve their constituents -- all of them, not just the ones who share his beliefs. And should those constituents desire something that runs afoul of religious beliefs, but not necessarily the laws of the land...

Third, situations may arise which would require him, for the good of his people, to compromise or even outright forsake his Christian values. And correct me if I'm wrong, but God is not a fan of compromise.

Nevertheless, there are situations in which the "Christian" thing to do is not what's best for the country. Can you imagine what would've happened if, in the wake of 9/11, George Bush (himself a professed Christian, and who am I to dispute it?) decided to turn to Matthew 5:39 for inspiration?

My guess? By the morning of September 12, he would've been strung up from the Washington Monument for this very Christ-like gesture -- and make no mistake: his fellow Christians would be holding the rope.

One would think that Matthew 6:24 would discourage Christians from politics -- surprisingly, it doesn't.

Christians in politics is somthing of an oxymoron, isn't it?
I can't judge who is a Christian and who is not, but I do wonder about people who profess Christianity and take the political stage. The whole humbleness thing has to go out the window, I've never seen a humble politician win a major election.

 

[Marius27]

That Legislation was overturned and no longer applies in Uganda.

Actually, the bill passed. They just claim the death penalty isn't implemented for it. It's still an extremely barbaric law that will result in the death/imprisonment of lots of gay people.

 

[DiligentlySeekingGod]

Christians in politics is somthing of an oxymoron, isn't it?
I can't judge who is a Christian and who is not, but I do wonder about people who profess Christianity and take the political stage. The whole humbleness thing has to go out the window, I've never seen a humble politician win a major election.

That is true. You made some good points here. Something more for me to think about.

 

[mafwons]

I have been doing a lot of thinking about arguing theology or other spiritual issues with unbelievers. As I said before, Scripture tells us that unbelievers are spiritually blind and unable to understand the things of God. Scripture tells us that their minds are an enmity against God, just as ours once were, before God saved us. Therefore, it seems senseless for me to argue over spiritual issues and a biblical worldview with an unbeliever when they will not be able to spiritually discern the things of God for themselves. As the Apostle Paul said, "For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God" (1 Corinthians 1:18). They are spiritually dead, living in spiritual darkness, and until the light of the Lord shines upon them, that is where they will remain. I have been feeling led to approach evangelism and witnessing in a totally different manner than I have before. However, I do admire our brethren who can effectively debate with unbelievers, such as Ken Ham and Ray Comfort. These two gentlemen are truly anointed by the Lord, in my humble opinion. And lastly, I also find it very disheartening to encounter rebuke against the Scriptures from other people who profess to be Christian themselves. I truly find it unbelievable to hear self-professing Christians question and doubt the sole authority of the Word of God. I also find it disheartening to encounter self-professing Christians who blatantly support and condone homosexuality and abortion (and any other sinful behavior). They may profess Christ with their lips but it is obvious, from the very fruits of their lives and by the words out of their mouth, that their heart is far from Him.

Jesus said that from out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. Scripture tells us that God desires "truth in the inward parts" (Psalm 51:6). He sees lust as adultery and hatred as murder and He hates a lying tongue. The rock biblical truth is that if you profess Christ, you cannot have one foot in the Church and the other foot in the world. You cannot be a friend of the world without becoming an enemy of God, no matter what you profess to believe. A true and genuine believer in Christ would turn from their sins in repentance, crucifying their flesh, with all its worldly desires and passions, and they would not condone any kind of sin that God condemns. They would not be purposely running into sin, but they would be yielding and submitting their will to God and to the lead of the Holy Spirit. "Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness" (2 Timothy 2:19). And that is the rock solid biblical truth. I'll step down from my soapbox now. God bless you, sister in Christ. I want to encourage you to keep fighting the good fight of faith, my sister in Christ.

"For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." (2 Corinthians 5:21)

"But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him." (Romans 5:8-9)

Well said. I think you have hit the nail on the head.

 

[Glass*Soul]

I have been doing a lot of thinking about arguing theology or other spiritual issues with unbelievers. As I said before, Scripture tells us that unbelievers are spiritually blind and unable to understand the things of God. Scripture tells us that their minds are an enmity against God, just as ours once were, before God saved us. Therefore, it seems senseless for me to argue over spiritual issues and a biblical worldview with an unbeliever when they will not be able to spiritually discern the things of God for themselves. As the Apostle Paul said, "For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God" (1 Corinthians 1:18). They are spiritually dead, living in spiritual darkness, and until the light of the Lord shines upon them, that is where they will remain. I have been feeling led to approach evangelism and witnessing in a totally different manner than I have before. However, I do admire our brethren who can effectively debate with unbelievers, such as Ken Ham and Ray Comfort. These two gentlemen are truly anointed by the Lord, in my humble opinion.

And lastly, I also find it very disheartening to encounter rebuke against the Scriptures from other people who profess to be Christian themselves. I truly find it unbelievable to hear self-professing Christians question and doubt the sole authority of the Word of God. I also find it disheartening to encounter self-professing Christians who blatantly support and condone homosexuality and abortion (and any other sinful behavior). They may profess Christ with their lips but it is obvious, from the very fruits of their lives and by the words out of their mouth, that their heart is far from Him. Jesus said that from out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. Scripture tells us that God desires "truth in the inward parts" (Psalm 51:6). He sees lust as adultery and hatred as murder and He hates a lying tongue.

The rock biblical truth is that if you profess Christ, you cannot have one foot in the Church and the other foot in the world. You cannot be a friend of the world without becoming an enemy of God, no matter what you profess to believe. A true and genuine believer in Christ would turn from their sins in repentance, crucifying their flesh, with all its worldly desires and passions, and they would not condone any kind of sin that God condemns. They would not be purposely running into sin, but they would be yielding and submitting their will to God and to the lead of the Holy Spirit. "Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness" (2 Timothy 2:19). And that is the rock solid biblical truth. I'll step down from my soapbox now. God bless you, sister in Christ. Keep fighting the good fight of faith.

"For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." (2 Corinthians 5:21)

"But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him." (Romans 5:8-9)

It is not easy trying to have a discussion in good faith with someone who openly regards you as blind and without understanding, or as another professing Christian on this board did this morning, compares you to the most evil entity she can imagine (and not even as an individual but as "the atheist" plural). I simply don't buy it that I have nothing insightful or well thought out to say ever, or that my presence here is tantamount to that of an avatar of pure evil. It is especially disconcerting that you and she have both spoken kindly to me in the last few days, disarming me somewhat. I spent some time today wondering if I had words to express a certain empathy with your fervency of belief while respectfully disagreeing with the particulars, as I felt your frustration yesterday in not being able to express your thoughts more exactly. What would have been the point if I had? I might as well clang a gong.

Why? Why treat people like this?

 

[DiligentlySeekingGod]

Well said. I think you have hit the nail on the head.

Thank you, brother in Christ. No compromise of my faith.

 

[Glass*Soul]

Well said. I think you have hit the nail on the head.

That nail is actually a group of people.

 

[Marius27]

Well said. I think you have hit the nail on the head.

Nope, she definitely hasn't.

 

[DiligentlySeekingGod]

A word of advice. Don't respond to those here who are out to bait you so as to report you. There are many gay atheists on this site that live for that.

Christians arrested for preaching against homosexuality

I just saw the following story posted on my Facebook news feed.

Christian Pro-Family Activist Arrested for ‘Biblical Hate Speech’ in Canada to Cheers from LGBT Activists

Do you know anything about it? It seems to fit our discussion well.

 

[mafwons]

I just saw the following story posted on my Facebook news feed.

Christian Pro-Family Activist Arrested for ‘Biblical Hate Speech’ in Canada to Cheers from LGBT Activists

Do you know anything about it? It seems to fit our discussion well.

Looks like he was arrested for trespassing.