Met with the Missionaries?

[AMMON]

Why do you say that when you know it is not true doctrine in the Mormon church ?

If one has heard and refused the message of Joseph Smith will spend eternity in the Telestial Kingdom

The Telestial Kingdom in Latter-day Saint understanding is the lowest of the three degrees of glory to be inhabited by God's children in the afterlife following the resurrection. The Doctrine and Covenants is the only known scriptural source for the word "telestial" (see D&C 76:88, 98, 109; 88:21). Paul spoke of the differing glories, comparing them to the differences in light we see from the sun, moon, and stars (1 Cor. 15:40-42), mentioning the celestial and terrestrial by name. Although the term "telestial" does not occur in biblical accounts, latter-day revelation cites telestial as the kingdom of glory typified by the lesser light we perceive from the stars (D&C 76:98). The Celestial Kingdom and Terrestrial Kingdom are typified by the light we perceive from the sun and moon, respectively.




Within the telestial glory there will be varying degrees of glory even as the stars vary in brightness as we see them. It embraces those who on earth willfully reject the gospel of Jesus Christ, and commit serious sins such as murder, adultery, lying, and loving to make a lie (but yet do not commit the unpardonable sin), and who do not repent in mortality. They will be cleansed in the postmortal spirit world or spirit prison before the resurrection (D&C 76:81-85, 98-106; Rev. 22:15). Telestial inhabitants as innumerable as the stars will come forth in the last resurrection and then be "servants of the Most High; but where God and Christ dwell they cannot come" (D&C 76:112). Although the least of the degrees of glory, yet the Telestial Kingdom "surpasses all understanding" (D&C 76:89).

God dwells ONLY in the Celestial kingdom, open only to those that Joseph Smith allows in

I am planning what I will say to Hitler, Stalin and all the others that will be where the LDS plan to send me

You are incorrect. The Terestial Kingdom, which is ruled by Jesus Christ, is reserved for those good souls who believe in Christ and strive to follow Him, but who did not receive all of the ordinances and truths required to dwell with the Father in the Celestial Kingdom. The Telestial Kingdom, on the other hand, is reserved for those who made some pretty big mistakes.

 

[twhite982]

I also starting reading a book called BELIEVING CHRIST By Stephen Anderson.

ElderBell,

The book is Believing Christ by Stephen Robinson.

I agree with your comments about it as I've struggled and reading it has helped me immensely.

Tom

 

[baker]

I also was born and baptised Catholic, being from multi-generations of Catholics, but I was raised in many religions and then at the age of 10 chose the LDS Church over any other because it was the only one that made any sense, and then when I was 21 after much more learning and experience of various things and EVEN falling away from the Church essentially being an anti, I then learned that it was actually true once I put away my judgement and kept learning.

Lee baby, at the age of 10 do you really expect us to believe that YOU chose the lds church!? Come on now, who really chose it for you?

 

[rnmomof7]

You are incorrect. The Terestial Kingdom, which is ruled by Jesus Christ, is reserved for those good souls who believe in Christ and strive to follow Him, but who did not receive all of the ordinances and truths required to dwell with the Father in the Celestial Kingdom. The Telestial Kingdom, on the other hand, is reserved for those who made some pretty big mistakes.

Like refusing the gospel of the mormons ..

Seems that there may be some of us that will end up here

Telestial
These people did not receive the gospel or the testimony of Jesus either on earth or in the spirit world. They will suffer for their own sins in hell until after the Millennium, when they will be resurrected. "These are they who are liars, and sorcerers, and adulterers, and whoremongers, and whosoever loves and makes a lie." These people are as numerous as the stars in heaven and the sand on the seashore. They will be visited by the Holy Ghost but not by the Father or the Son. (See D&C 76:81-86, 103-6.)

 

[elderbell]

How dare you! At the referal center in the MTC I talked to a kid who only 12 who was half way through the Book of Mormon and when I asked why had the desire to read it, he said because he felt inspired. Don't underestimate the power of spirituality in a child...in fact, the times you are closest to your Heavenly Father in this probationary state are when you are first born, and when you are very close to passing on. Lee, that's awesome, glad to see someone in here that has grabbed hold of the rod.

 

[Rescued One]

Doc: I agree, but read it from their [the LDS] sources, after all you would not have recommended people at the time of Christ go to the Pharisees for the truth about Christ.

~

What an odd thing to say! Perhaps you should go to an ex-Pharisee and ask him about Christ.

 

[rnmomof7]

Lee baby, at the age of 10 do you really expect us to believe that YOU chose the lds church!? Come on now, who really chose it for you?

A burning breast after pizza did it :>)

 

[rnmomof7]

How dare you! At the referal center in the MTC I talked to a kid who only 12 who was half way through the Book of Mormon and when I asked why had the desire to read it, he said because he felt inspired. Don't underestimate the power of spirituality in a child...in fact, the times you are closest to your Heavenly Father in this probationary state are when you are first born, and when you are very close to passing on. Lee, that's awesome, glad to see someone in here that has grabbed hold of the rod.

I trust that the parents gave permission for the mormons to evangelize him

 

[rnmomof7]

I also was born and baptised Catholic, being from multi-generations of Catholics, but I was raised in many religions and then at the age of 10 chose the LDS Church

How many religions can a ten year old absorb the doctrine of ?
Who took you to all those churches , I thought you came from a long line of Catholics.

And finely who introduced you to the Mormons? Did your parents join?

 

[fatboys]

You have no idea what it is like to come from the darkness to the light.

Oh yes, I do...I came from darkness into light when I left the LDS church and accepted Jesus and his simple truth.

FB: I can understand how you would see it that way.

I was born and raised in it, I didn't know any different until I started to seek Jesus and the truth for myself (of course against the 'caution' of fellow lds who knew the truth would lead me out of the Mormon church)

FB: And so you never believed it? You never had a testimony of it? Are you saying that you never understood the Christ before you left? Nothing that we teach about Christ is similar to what you believe now? If you think this then you really do not understand what we teach.

LOL, typical responce. LDS are taught that people leave because they can't "live the lds standards", well you are right in one respect, I could not go on worshiping a false god and living the standards of unbiblical docterine that the lds church preaches. As far as the whole moral values, coffee, tea etc. I had no problem living those.

FB: There are more to the standards of the church than moral, or WofW problems. But most leave because of the it. You may not have, but still there was a standard that you could not abide by.

Yes, Satan presented me with a test and I failed misserably because I chose Jesus.

FB: You already belonged to the church of Satan as you call it, and Satan tested you? Why? This is not a tactic used by Satan.

My testimony is in Jesus now, not a false god of a false docterinally based church. I thank God every day for giving me the real Jesus and a testimony of that and for bringing me out of the false beliefs of the lds church that I was so emersed in for so long.

FB: I think your testimony should have already been based on Jesus. I think you misunderstand what the LDS teach.

I think if anyone is bitter, it is you from the things you have written in this post and that is sad. So sad that you so detest Christianity and the God of the Bible and find people who speak what the Bible says to be such a spurn to you. I write lots of possitive things about Jesus and God, you just don't like that I write against the LDS church and that is what you choose to see when you read, once again...I am not suprized.

FB: Why would you think I detest Christianity. I have many friends and have been to many churchs over the years. I have felt the spirit in these places of worship. Why would I detest a belief in something I also believe in? No, I think you portray bitterness against the church. You are saying that nothing positive ever happened to you while you were a member? I do not believe it.

He has told me so from His holy word, the Bible and I believe it. It is a simple thing, it is not hard to understand. However, for a person who follows a belief that teaches that God's word is currupt and full of error, of course that person would not believe what God has to say in the Bible.

FB: Cop out. You tell me how you know the bible is anything more than a book. How do you know that the Word of God is from God?

I don't base truth on feelings.

FB: This is such a cop out. Your whole belief is based on feelings. My goodness how do you know whether or not you have faith or not?

I study God's word and use it as my measuring stick for truth. If something I "feel" goes against the Word of God then I know it is not of God.

FB: First you say you don't rely on feelings, and now you say if something you "feel" goes against the word of God. You say that we can not rely on our feelings for truth but you can.

I wrote before on another thread what led me out of the LDS church and straight to Jesus, obviously you didn't read it or chose to ignore it if you did read it.

FB: I am sorry, I really don't remember if I have read it or not. I have done this for many years, and have read so many out stories, that they seem to be the same story over and over again. I realize that it is important to you, but I really don't remember.

The Bible is what led me to God. The more I read it and the more I prayed, the more God SHOWED me it was his Holy Word. It wasn't about "feelings", he showed it to me. Everyday he would point out something to me that I never noticed before or thought of before. Things in my everyday life, to things I read, heard, studied, etc. I didn't choose Jesus because it gave me a "warm fuzzy" feeling or because some "familiar" spirit appeared to me and told me "Jesus was truth", I chose him because he showed me over and over and over again that He was truth and His Holy Word was truth.

FB: This does not tell me anything as to how you know any more than a Hindu, buddist, muslim, Jewish religions.

Believe me when I tell you that I fought him on it for a long time, I wanted to believe the LDS chruch was true, I was raised lds, my entire family is lds, I had invested my entire life into that religion and those beliefs, my flesh DID NOT want to leave the LDS church but God had different plans for me and I thank Him for being so patient with me and for showing me His truth so so so so many times. He knows me so well that He knew he was really going to have to "prove" things to me to get me to leave the falsehoods I embraced and accept His simple gift. It was not a short process by any means and I took it very seriously. Once I finally humbled myself before God and accepted what he had been showing me all that time, yes, I did experience a peace that I had never experienced before.

FB: A feeling? You are trusting a feeling again? I am confused.

My entire life changed at that very moment and it has not been the same since. God changed me! It has been such an incredible walk with God these last 2 years. I just sit back in amazement at the changes God has made in my life. I stopped trying to "earn" his blessings for me and stopped trying "work" for His presence and since then, He has taken over and completely changed my life. Things that used to bother me, don't even phase me anymore, I have more patients with my family. My relationship with my husband has improved 100 times over, I find joy in little things that I never even noticed before. When the bills come in and there is no money, I don't worry one little bit about it because I know that God will provide a way and He always does. Life is sweeter now. The situations and problems of life are just as present as they used to be, if not more so but I am content and at peace with my life. I know that if I were to die tomarrow, I would be with my savior...not because of anything I have done to earn it but because of what he did for me. I know it because the Bible says it and I believe it. I have done NOTHING to change my life but Jesus has done everything to change it. I used to put soooooooo much effort into being the perfect wife, the perfect mother, the perfect friend, perfect lesson teacher at church, perfect example, perfect Mormon and never felt like I was doing enough or pleasing God enough. Now Jesus does it all for me (except the Mormon thing...lol) and I know He is pleased with me, I know I am going to Heaven and I believe in Him heart and soul. He is everything to me, everything! I don't need secret oaths and handshakes, I don't need perfect works and I don't need to follow the teachings of a "prophet" to get me into heaven with my God forever, I just need Jesus! The world will pass away one day and all this earthly stuff will be gone but I will be in Heaven at the feet of Lord, worshipping Him in awe and amazement, and that my friend, is all that matters!

FB: You talk the talk, but you don't walk the talk. By your own admission, you did the same thing we say we do to find truth. So tell me how you know I am wrong and prove it this time. I have read the Bible, and have studied church history, and the teachings and doctrines of many religions. I disagree with your conclusions about the church. It is really interesting that the very thing you deny you believe is the very thing that you do. I can also understand how it would seem like a great burden was lifted once you felt the release of trying to be perfect. Even though the Bible teaches us to be perfect, we are only expected to do our best. What a shame that you felt such pressure to be more than what was expected. Your best Grace. Did you do your best when you were in the church?

 

[fatboys]

Lee baby, at the age of 10 do you really expect us to believe that YOU chose the lds church!? Come on now, who really chose it for you?

FB: If he says that he chose it at age 10 then I believe him. I am teaching a the gospel to a 11 year old who is just totally amazing when it comes to spiritual awareness, and understanding the gospel. He knows nothing about the church yet believes and understands it almost exactly. He does not know much about Joseph Smith, but his understanding of the Godhead and his studying the bible is totally amazing. In fact we call the pre mortal Jesus Jehovah. When he said this my mouth about dropped on the floor. I would say that youth can factor in many times. I know I could not care less about much of anything at that age. And perhaps since you do not recongize that Lee at the age of 10 could make a choice, you were as I was.

 

[fatboys]

What an odd thing to say! Perhaps you should go to an ex-Pharisee and ask him about Christ.

FB: I think you meant ex christian didn't you?

 

[rnmomof7]

FB: If he says that he chose it at age 10 then I believe him. I am teaching a the gospel to a 11 year old who is just totally amazing when it comes to spiritual awareness, and understanding the gospel. He knows nothing about the church yet believes and understands it almost exactly. He does not know much about Joseph Smith, but his understanding of the Godhead and his studying the bible is totally amazing. In fact we call the pre mortal Jesus Jehovah. When he said this my mouth about dropped on the floor. I would say that youth can factor in many times. I know I could not care less about much of anything at that age. And perhaps since you do not recongize that Lee at the age of 10 could make a choice, you were as I was.

I assume that mom and dad's have given permission for these sessions as I believe they would be illegal otherwise

 

[AMMON]

I assume that mom and dad's have given permission for these sessions as I believe they would be illegal otherwise

They would not be illegal otherwise. (See, e.g., all kinds of doctrine preached over the TV without parental permission.) Besides, ever heard of the First Amendment?

 

[rnmomof7]

They would not be illegal otherwise. (See, e.g., all kinds of doctrine preached over the TV without parental permission.) Besides, ever heard of the First Amendment?

A child does not enjoy full rights in the constitution until maturity.

A "television " preacher is invited into the home if the parent allows it on the TV., and she can shut it off.

You would be interfering with the rights of a parent to decide the faith the child should be raised in .
Even a non custodial parent can not teach or take a child to a church that the custodial parent chooses.

The fact that you would seek out minor children and indoctrinate them without the consent of the parent speaks volumes about your character and the RESPECT you guys CLAIM to have for the family. I guess it is only the Mormon Father who has authority over his children . Poor little Smart girl found a prophet she wanted to follow and her dad too her away .

To be honest I see very little difference in your indoctrinating a minor.

I wonder how you would take one of those Baptists outside the Salt Lake city Temple teaching your son

 

[AMMON]

A child does not enjoy full rights in the constitution until maturity.

A "television " preacher is invited into the home if the parent allows it on the TV., and she can shut it off.

You would be interfering with the rights of a parent to decide the faith the child should be raised in .
Even a non custodial parent can not teach or take a child to a church that the custodial parent chooses.

The fact that you would seek out minor children and indoctrinate them without the consent of the parent speaks volumes about your character and the RESPECT you guys CLAIM to have for the family. I guess it is only the Mormon Father who has authority over his children . Poor little Smart girl found a prophet she wanted to follow and her dad too her away .

To be honest I see very little difference in your indoctrinating a minor.

I wonder how you would take one of those Baptists outside the Salt Lake city Temple teaching your son

I spoke of illegality, not ethics. I agree that it would unethical to have the missionaries teach a minor without consent of the parents, and if I recall official mission policy on the matter, parental consent is required.

 

[calgal]

I spoke of illegality, not ethics. I agree that it would unethical to have the missionaries teach a minor without consent of the parents, and if I recall official mission policy on the matter, parental consent is required.

Does that mean the third world countries where the kids are baptized also are extended this same protection? Or do your "official mission policies" stop at the Border? I recall missionaries who went to Latin America and baptized minors as a prerequisite for playin soccer.

 

[rnmomof7]

I spoke of illegality, not ethics. I agree that it would unethical to have the missionaries teach a minor without consent of the parents, and if I recall official mission policy on the matter, parental consent is required.

It is unethical and illegal...the parents could sue the church

So I assume that when you had this conversation

At the referal center in the MTC I talked to a kid who only 12 who was half way through the Book of Mormon and when I asked why had the desire to read it, he said because he felt inspired

You already had the parental permission on paper and filed away.

Cause if it were me I would sue your pants and magic underwear off.Then I would sue the prophet for not telling you what was coming, and possibly the printers and distributers of the BOM...you know how lawsuits are..you throw them up against the wall and see if they stick..would be interesting

 

[rnmomof7]

Does that mean the third world countries where the kids are baptized also are extended this same protection? Or do your "official mission policies" stop at the Border? I recall missionaries who went to Latin America and baptized minors as a prerequisite for playin soccer.

Improves the numbers...do they take away membership it the team are losers ?

 

[Duende]

Don't be deceived, duende, as so many of us were. Mormonism is full of lies, changes, confusion, and lots of PR. You can't get the whole picture from their websites. Try these:

http://www.utlm.org/

http://www.concernedchristians.org/

http://www.mission2mormons.org/

I have studied such sites, and others like them. They sound very much like the many anticatholic sites with which I must deal so often. It seems that people enjoy discrediting other peoples' religions. I'm not sure why that is. Pride perhaps? It happens to almost all religions, including orthodox Christianity. Always those out there seeking to prove they are right and someone else is wrong. This is a sad state of affairs, in my humble opinion.

I have continued meeting with the people of the Mormon Church down here and studying on my own. I must admit, growing up Catholic there is much about my religion that I have never questioned, but I must admit that questions have now come. I have studied religion all my life, and I believe that much of what the Mormons say makes sense. My priest would be very sad if he knew of these thoughts. I am a deacon in the Roman Catholic Church, but for some reason I feel inspired to study this Mormon beliefs. Perhaps it is just my desire to learn. I love to study. I do not know.