• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Met with the Missionaries?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Swart

ÜberChristian
Mar 22, 2004
6,527
204
58
Melbourne
Visit site
✟32,187.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
AU-Greens
happyinhisgrace said:
Swart, I can appreciate the fact that you are doing your darndest to appear "intellectual" and "well read" but seriously, you will get a lot farther with folks if you just start using everyday words and lay off the LDS FARMS Apologist phrases. They really aren't that impressive. And you always trying to tell everyone the "proper scholorly" terms for their postings is not only NOT impressive but quite pretentious as well. If you are looking for recognition from FARMS for being able to talk just like them, I will gladly send them a note on your behalf and let them know that you are a terrific carbon of them but just do me a favor...when you are posting to me, refrain from the condesending, self-superior, uppudy "I am a genious" talk and just talk like a regular person. Thanks,

I am really bewildered by your post. I am not sure what to make of it.

I don't know what you mean by "appear to be intellectual". If you think I am posing as an LDS scholar, I can assure you I am not, not have I ever pretended to be. In fact I think I quite clearly stated that I was disinterested in such activities.

"well read"? In some respects I am. I have read a wide-variety of books from a range of topics. Is that a problem?

You will have to point out my LDS FARM's apologists phrase's that I have used. It is possible, I have read a few FARM's articles, but not well enough to quote from them. I use frequently quote from scripture and have been accused of using biblical (and occasionally Shakespearean) phraseology. Doth thou consider this a problem? :)

How I post is how I talk normally. I cannot apologise for that. Although I agree that there are some who don't like it when I analyse conversations - particularly my children. I just got through discussing "predictable consequences" with my middle son.

Critical thinking is not self-superior, condescending, uppidy, or disingenuos.

ALL claims - whether critical or no - must stand up to rigorous examination. A beginning of which is to analyse the logic of the claim. Anyone who makes a claim not backed up by adequate sources and built upon a solid logical framework deserves to be challenged.

Many COTMC use tactics identified by Laird Wilcox in his hoaxer report. It is handy to be able to identify these tactics and expose them for what they are. Naturally those that use these tactics will become offended when identified. According to Wilcox, they will then attack their critics personally using epithets to label them. They will often claim their critics are talking down to them and question their motives, claim their critics have an agenda, etc.

For a very good look at logical fallacies I recommend http://www.fallacyfiles.org/
 
Upvote 0

gort

pedantric
Sep 18, 2003
10,451
194
70
Visit site
✟34,392.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Many COTMC use tactics identified by Laird Wilcox in his hoaxer report. It is handy to be able to identify these tactics and expose them for what they are.

Ahhhh, thats where you got that manichaean word.........



7. M[size=-1]ANICHAEAN[/size] W[size=-1]ORLDVIEW[/size].

Extremists have a tendency to see the world in terms of absolutes of good and evil, for them or against them, with no middle ground or intermediate positions. All issues are ultimately moral issues of right and wrong, with the "right" position coinciding with their interests. Their slogan is often "those who are not with me are against me."

<><

 
Upvote 0

happyinhisgrace

Blessed Trinity
Jan 2, 2004
3,992
56
52
✟26,996.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Swart said:
I am really bewildered by your post. I am not sure what to make of it.

I don't know what you mean by "appear to be intellectual". If you think I am posing as an LDS scholar, I can assure you I am not, not have I ever pretended to be. In fact I think I quite clearly stated that I was disinterested in such activities.

"well read"? In some respects I am. I have read a wide-variety of books from a range of topics. Is that a problem?

You will have to point out my LDS FARM's apologists phrase's that I have used. It is possible, I have read a few FARM's articles, but not well enough to quote from them. I use frequently quote from scripture and have been accused of using biblical (and occasionally Shakespearean) phraseology. Doth thou consider this a problem? :)

How I post is how I talk normally. I cannot apologise for that. Although I agree that there are some who don't like it when I analyse conversations - particularly my children. I just got through discussing "predictable consequences" with my middle son.

Critical thinking is not self-superior, condescending, uppidy, or disingenuos.

ALL claims - whether critical or no - must stand up to rigorous examination. A beginning of which is to analyse the logic of the claim. Anyone who makes a claim not backed up by adequate sources and built upon a solid logical framework deserves to be challenged.

Many COTMC use tactics identified by Laird Wilcox in his hoaxer report. It is handy to be able to identify these tactics and expose them for what they are. Naturally those that use these tactics will become offended when identified. According to Wilcox, they will then attack their critics personally using epithets to label them. They will often claim their critics are talking down to them and question their motives, claim their critics have an agenda, etc.

For a very good look at logical fallacies I recommend http://www.fallacyfiles.org/
This post is a perfect example of exactly what I am talking about. Perhaps it is just the "new Mormon way of talking"

Grace
 
Upvote 0

Swart

ÜberChristian
Mar 22, 2004
6,527
204
58
Melbourne
Visit site
✟32,187.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
AU-Greens
daneel said:
Ahhhh, thats where you got that manichaean word.........

:D

Close, but no cigar. I first picked up manichaean from a military history book. Although I admit that the hoaxer report thrust it forward into my mind.

From CF I have picked up "heterodox" (from Der Alter I believe).

When reading Talmage, it is handy to have a dictionary nearby.
 
Upvote 0
happyinhisgrace said:
This post is a perfect example of exactly what I am talking about. Perhaps it is just the "new Mormon way of talking"

Grace
Romans 1:22.... Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an

My thoughts on your comments exactly grace

You don't have to slam anothers religion just to disagree, unless your worried about it being true;)
 
Upvote 0

Serapha

Well-Known Member
Jun 29, 2003
5,133
28
✟6,704.00
Faith
Non-Denom
LaurelTree said:
Romans 1:22.... Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an

My thoughts on your comments exactly grace

You don't have to slam anothers religion just to disagree, unless your worried about it being true;)

Hi there!

:wave:


No... and people don't have to post "personally" on any forum, do they?


Certainly, you would never support "personal" insults with the mindset you expressed here, would you?

I have always supported addressing issues and not people, and ask you to set the example for others to follow.

CYA...

:wave:


~serapha~
 
Upvote 0

Jay2004

Holy Catholic Evangelist
May 27, 2004
643
20
50
Ottawa
✟23,393.00
Faith
Catholic
Jesus is manichaean




What have you been smoking? Jesus was not a gnostic, otherwise he would have said the God of the old testament is an evil God and the God of the new testament was the true good God to be revieled.

Where do some of you people get your info.....


God save us from ignorance...
 
Upvote 0

Jay2004

Holy Catholic Evangelist
May 27, 2004
643
20
50
Ottawa
✟23,393.00
Faith
Catholic
Manichaean

Dualistic religious movement founded in Persia in the 3rd century AD by Mani, who was known as the "Apostle of Light" and supreme "Illuminator." Although Manichaeism was long considered a Christian heresy, it was a religion in its own right that, because of the coherence of its doctrines and the rigidness of its structure and institutions, preserved throughout its history a unity and unique character.




Mani was born in southern Babylonia (now in Iraq). With his "annunciation" at the age of 24, he obeyed a heavenly order to manifest himself publicly and to proclaim his doctrines; thus began the new religion. From that point on, Mani preached throughout the Persian Empire. At first unhindered, he later was opposed by the king, condemned, and imprisoned. After 26 days of trials, which his followers called the "Passion of the Illuminator" or Mani's "crucifixion," Mani delivered a final message to his disciples and died (sometime between 274 and 277).


Mani viewed himself as the final successor in a long line of prophets, beginning with Adam and including Buddha, Zoroaster, and Jesus. He viewed earlier revelations of the true religion as being limited in effectiveness because they were local, taught in one language to one people. Moreover, later adherents lost sight of the original truth. Mani regarded himself as the carrier of a universal message destined to replace all other religions. Hoping to avoid corruption and to ensure doctrinal unity, he recorded his teachings in writing and gave those writings canonical status during his lifetime.


The Manichaean Church from the beginning was dedicated to vigorous missionary activity in an attempt to convert the world. Mani encouraged the translation of his writings into other languages and organized an extensive mission program. Manichaeism rapidly spread west into the Roman Empire. From Egypt it moved across northern Africa (where the young Augustine temporarily became a convert) and reached Rome in the early 4th century. The 4th century marked the height of Manichaean expansion in the West, with churches established in southern Gaul and Spain. Vigorously attacked by both the Christian Church and the Roman state, it disappeared almost entirely from Western Europe by the end of the 5th century, and, during the course of the 6th century, from the eastern portion of the Empire.


During the lifetime of Mani, Manichaeism spread to the eastern provinces of the Persian Sasanian Empire. Within Persia itself, the Manichaean community maintained itself in spite of severe persecutions, until Muslim 'Abbasid persecution in the 10th century forced the transfer of the seat of the Manichaean leader to Samarkand (now in Uzbekistan).


The religion's expansion to the East had already begun in the 7th century with the reopening of caravan routes there after China's conquest of East Turkistan. A Manichaean missionary reached the Chinese court in 694, and in 732 an edict gave the religion freedom of worship in China. When East Turkistan was conquered in the 8th century by the Uighur Turks, one of their leaders adopted Manichaeism and it remained the state religion of the Uighur kingdom until its overthrow in 840. Manichaeism itself probably survived in East Turkistan until the Mongol invasion in the 13th century. In China it was forbidden in 843, but, although persecuted, it continued there at least until the 14th century.


Teachings similar to Manichaeism resurfaced during the Middle Ages in Europe in the so-called neo-Manichaean sects. Groups such as the Paulicians (Armenia, 7th century), the Bogomilists (Bulgaria, 10th century), and the Cathari or Albigensians (southern France, 12th century) bore strong resemblances to Manichaeism and probably were influenced by it. However, their direct historical links to the religion of Mani are difficult to establish.


Mani sought to found a truly ecumenical and universal religion that would integrate into itself all the partial truths of previous revelations, especially those of Zoroaster, Buddha, and Jesus. However, beyond mere syncretism, it sought the proclamation of a truth that could be translated into diverse forms in accordance with the different cultures into which it spread. Thus, Manichaeism, depending on the context, resembles Iranian and Indian religions, Christianity, Buddhism, and Taoism.


At its core, Manichaeism was a type of Gnosticism--a dualistic religion that offered salvation through special knowledge (gnosis) of spiritual truth. Like all forms of Gnosticism, Manichaeism taught that life in this world is unbearably painful and radically evil. Inner illumination or gnosis reveals that the soul which shares in the nature of God has fallen into the evil world of matter and must be saved by means of the spirit or intelligence (nous). To know one's self is to recover one's true self, which was previously clouded by ignorance and lack of self-consciousness because of its mingling with the body and with matter. In Manichaeism, to know one's self is to see one's soul as sharing in the very nature of God and as coming from a transcendent world. Knowledge enables a person to realize that, despite his abject present condition in the material world, he does not cease to remain united to the transcendent world by eternal and immanent bonds with it. Thus, knowledge is the only way to salvation.


The saving knowledge of the true nature and destiny of humanity, God, and the universe is expressed in Manichaeism in a complex mythology. Whatever its details, the essential theme of this mythology remains constant: the soul is fallen, entangled with evil matter, and then liberated by the spirit or nous. The myth unfolds in three stages: a past period in which there was a separation of the two radically opposed substances--Spirit and Matter, Good and Evil, Light and Darkness; a middle period (corresponding to the present) during which the two substances are mixed; and a future period in which the original duality will be reestablished. At death the soul of the righteous person returns to Paradise. The soul of the person who persisted in things of the flesh--fornication, procreation, possessions, cultivation, harvesting, eating of meat, drinking of wine--is condemned to rebirth in a succession of bodies.


Only a portion of the faithful followed the strict ascetic life advocated in Manichaeism. The community was divided into the elect, who felt able to embrace a rigorous rule, and the hearers who supported the elect with works and alms.
The essentials of the Manichaean sacramental rites were prayers, almsgiving, and fasting. Confession and the singing of hymns were also important in their communal life. The Manichaean scriptural canon includes seven works attributed to Mani, written originally in Syriac. Lost after Manichaeism became extinct in the Middle Ages, portions of the Manichaean scriptures were rediscovered in the 20th century, mainly in Chinese Turkistan and Egypt.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.