Met with the Missionaries?

[twhite982]

Respectfully the question was not to you..but to ED with whom I had a discussion on this before.

The truth is your church has traditionally taught the atonement was in the garden....not at the cross.

I know you love your savior...

Sorry rnmomof7 it was clear that your question was not asked in fairness and that's why I made the comment.

Tom

 

[twhite982]

Twhite,

I'm beginning to think that those who post the facts are annoying you. It is NO SECRET that the lds church "discourages" the symbol of the cross. I have been told this by missionaries and bishops in your church numerous times. The former members on this board have spoken to support this.

The fact is LDS are encouraged not to wear crucifixes, but not commanded. In fact its been many years since I've heard anything about that. We DO NOT hate, dislike, abhor, reject, etc... the cross, at least my family and those Mormons I associate with don't. There are exceptions, but I would be amzed if this is the norm.

Here is the quote so you can see it again

I do not think so .

I have a question , seeing the mormons dislike the symbol of the cross so much , why do you have one on your posts ?

Its one thing to "discourage" wearing a crucifix or having a cross upon a church and another to dislike the symbol of the cross. The cross and what it represents in Christianity are two different things.

I think it is more a control issue for the bretheren over their flock.

Thanks for your opinion.

Many things they do are the same. Hinkley's designation of earings on both men and female is but another. Kimball's letter on appropriate intimate behavior between a man and wife in 1982 is another. I don't make these things up, they are true!

I haven't seen the Kimball letter nor do I want to, but I've heard President Hinckley's talks about earings. This is regarding setting an example of Christ to the world and not following worldy fads.

Paul talks of "items" of stumbling to the new Christian. Its of a similiar nature.

Tom

 

[skylark1]

I have no idea why those people would behave in a manner like that.
Its saddens me to hear that. From those Mormons that I do know, I haven't seen these similiar actions because if I did I would immediately say something.

Maybe it's a Utah thing?

Seriously, I think that sometimes when people of a certain religion (or race) are in the overwhelming majority, it might be reflected in some extent in their attitudes and behavior to those who are "different."

I was wrong when I wrote Orem. It was Lehi.

 

[twhite982]

Maybe it's a Utah thing?

Seriously, I think that sometimes when people of a certain religion (or race) are in the overwhelming majority, it might be reflected in some extent in their attitudes and behavior to those who are "different."

I was wrong when I wrote Orem. It was Lehi.

I've was told as a joke by another Mormon that those in Utah don't know if the LDS church is true. Alot of these "strange" stories you guys bring up seem to come from the "motherland".

I don't know. I have a hard enough time worry about myself and my family.

Tom

 

[skylark1]

I found the link to the article that I mentioned. I don't think that it is unusual for a child wearing a cross to school to be ridiculed here in Utah. The good news is that they were able to come together and learn from what happened - including the parents.

http://www.sltrib.com/2003/Dec/12132003/saturday/119483.asp

 

[Rescued One]

I have never seen a LDS wear a cross; and I have never lived in Utah. I was told that, "We do not wear crosses because we don't dwell on Christ's death." We are not talking about a crucifix, we are talking about a cross. Nevertheless, Christ's death on the cross paid for my sins. When I see a cross, I think of Jesus and how much He loves me.


~ One Day I Asked Jesus "How Much Do You Love Me?" And He Said "I Love You This Much" And He Stretched Out His Arms And Died. ~

 

[twhite982]

I have never seen a LDS wear a cross; and I have never lived in Utah. I was told that, "We do not wear crosses because we don't dwell on Christ's death." We are not talking about a crucifix, we are talking about a cross. Nevertheless, Christ's death on the cross paid for my sins. When I see a cross, I think of Jesus and how much He loves me.


~ One Day I Asked Jesus "How Much Do You Love Me?" And He Said "I Love You This Much" And He Stretched Out His Arms And Died. ~

I think with anything that represents something religious there can be a chance that the object could be worshipped instead of what it represents.

I don't know if this is the reason for church leaders to suggest not wearing a cross, I do not know. The LDS do wear other things that remind us of spiritual covenants. Either way for me at least its more important that the value of anything religious is held on the inside not the outside. The cross can and is a reflection of that inward belief, but I've seen many "Christians" mock the cross they wore around their neck by what they really believed in and which was demonstrated by their behavior.

Anyways, that's all for me tonight, I gotta work early tommorow.

Nite.

Tom

 

[baker]

The fact is LDS are encouraged not to wear crucifixes, but not commanded.

I think we agree. Does "discourage" = "encouraged not"?

Its one thing to "discourage" wearing a crucifix or having a cross upon a church and another to dislike the symbol of the cross.

Perhaps. But why does your church discourage one of the most profound symbols supported by biblical scripture?

The cross and what it represents in Christianity are two different things.

How so? Not following you here.

I haven't seen the Kimball letter nor do I want to,

What?!?! Why wouldn't you want to see an official announcement from your First Presidency? It was all about determining temple worthiness. Now, what your prophet determines to be appropriate intimate behavior between a man and wife, and their worthiness to god has to do with one another makes no sense to me. Anyway, if you don't want to see it, don't click here:

http://www.lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter.shtml

but I've heard President Hinckley's talks about earings. This is regarding setting an example of Christ to the world and not following worldy fads.

Come on Twhite, tell me what you think demonstrates "worldly"; Building a 100 million conference center, buying up Crossroads Mall and half of downtown commercial real estate, establishing a worldwide satellite church TV broadcast station, OR, a woman deciding two wear two posts instead of one in her ear. I mean really, lets be serious here! It's ALL about control.

Paul talks of "items" of stumbling to the new Christian. Its of a similiar nature.

Let's just hope Paul is not judged by the length of his hair or the robe he wears!

 

[feo]

Baker: Excellent Post my Friend.

Come on Twhite, tell me what you think demonstrates "worldly"; Building a 100 million conference center, buying up Crossroads Mall and half of downtown commercial real estate, establishing a worldwide satellite church TV broadcast station, OR, a woman deciding two wear two posts instead of one in her ear. I mean really, lets be serious here! It's ALL about control.

Did You Know That... The Mormon Church Will NOT Tell You How They Are Spending Your Tithes? its Fine to Tithe, but c'mon... how do You Know The Church is Using The Money Correctly- especially if They're deceiving you; and Not Disclosing any information about it...

sounds Fishy to me.

 

[MagusAlbertus]

Baker: Excellent Post my Friend.



Did You Know That... The Mormon Church Will NOT Tell You How They Are Spending Your Tithes? its Fine to Tithe, but c'mon... how do You Know The Church is Using The Money Correctly- especially if They're deceiving you; and Not Disclosing any information about it...

sounds Fishy to me.

Not for profit status should not extend to those who spend their un-taxed money to buy money-making institutions that are continued to be used as such.

 

[happyinhisgrace]

Baker: Excellent Post my Friend.



Did You Know That... The Mormon Church Will NOT Tell You How They Are Spending Your Tithes? its Fine to Tithe, but c'mon... how do You Know The Church is Using The Money Correctly- especially if They're deceiving you; and Not Disclosing any information about it...

sounds Fishy to me.

The different Christian churches I attend for worship service put out a statement every 6 months-1 year that shows a break down of where offering funds are being spent. This includes the pastors salary, cost of building maintance, cost of dinners and functions, even the amount spent on suplies for the musical equipment, charities, and communion. As far as I know, the LDS only gives a "general" conference report that talks about how many temples are being built, how many church houses, etc. I have never heard of the LDS giving out detailed information of how exactly it is spending it's members "tithing" and "offering" money. You would think that the "only true church" would have nothing to hide and would be more than willing to give an itemized list of where they put their members money.

Grace

 

[MagusAlbertus]

You would think that the "only true church" would have nothing to hide and would be more than willing to give an itemized list of where they put their members money.

I’m 100% sure it does!

...as far as the one true church of all believers in Christ have good accounting practices in their place of giving.

 

[thewonderfultruth]

If you really want to know. Read "Answers to Gospel Questions" --Joseph Fielding Smith. The chapter on the cross.

 

[happyinhisgrace]

I’m 100% sure it does!

...as far as the one true church of all believers in Christ have good accounting practices in their place of giving.

This is my point magus. The Christian churches have no problem disclosing their distribution of offering funds to it's members , however, the LDS church is more than a little vague on where exactly they put the members money to use. We could say it seems a little "fishy" but I think it stinks of an entire ocean.

Grace

 

[baker]

If you really want to know. Read "Answers to Gospel Questions" --Joseph Fielding Smith. The chapter on the cross.

If you have read it AND understand it, please explain it to us in your own words.

 

[emerald Dragon]

I do not think so .

I have a question , seeing the mormons dislike the symbol of the cross so much , why do you have one on your posts ?

Regardless of what you think, I know that they and I will be so. I am happy that I have chosen the One True Church of Jesus Christ.

I use the cross, because this site uses it to denote a Christian, and that is what I am. We believe in the cross, we just don't hold it in the same esteem as you do. It means more to you than it does to us, but we still recognize its meaning.

God Bless,
Emerald Dragon

 

[ChileanEldr2004]

They are not Christians ,they worship a different god and jesus.
They deny the creeds

The problem is they have adapted the language of the church to mean different things. It sounds orthodox but it is not.

Unfortunately we live in an age when many people do not really know what the bible says..So the idea of a new gospel seems just fine.

I would suggest taking some time to read their doctrine , you will quickly see it is not Christian

I must say it is difficult to say that Mormons don't believe in the "same" God and Jesus Christ as you do, and that we aren't christians. I understand that according to the rules of this forum, because Mormons don't believe the different creeds. However, looking at the definition of a chrisitan, someon who believes in Christ, has recieved testimony from the Holy Spirit that he has risen, and died for our sins, (even in the name of the church it says the church of who..Jesus Christ) we know that Christ is the savior of all mankind. We are most definitely christians. The only difference is looking from our point of view that you must have a Prophet, like it says in Amos 3:7 ,"Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets. "
Joseph Smith, being the first prophet, and as some call him a liar, came out of his first experience having had a vision seeing God and Jesus Christ, 2 separate beings, he didn't deduce or try and figure out the nature of God like it was done by the priests of Constantine during the writing of Nicean Creed, he actually saw God and Jesus Christ, he knew it, they appeared to him. Now I realize to believethat requires faith, but also looking at a bit of logic on two related themes;
1. During 1820 when Joseph recieved his first vision the mainstream christianity all believed in creeds, now if Joseph really was a "liar" what do liars do? They lie so people will be believe them correct? So why didn't he just follow the mainstream belief, I am positive many more people would have followed him, and less persecuted him, less would have tarred and feathered him, had he said, "Just like everyone believes I saw God he and Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are one." But he said was something the Christian world did not accept, and did not understand.
And 2. God never changes, Jesus Christ never changes, In Hebrews it says that Jesus is the same today, yesterday, and forever. If they always called prophets, like Jacob, Issac, Abraham, Adam, Noah, Jesus Christ, Peter, Paul, John, why would they stop, are we not loved of God as his children from the ancient times? Why would he just stop calling prophets, even after Jesus Christ had been crucified the Apostles went out preaching, men who had been ORDAINED of God, not just anyone who decided they wanted to.

 

[rnmomof7]

Regardless of what you think, I know that they and I will be so. I am happy that I have chosen the One True Church of Jesus Christ.

I use the cross, because this site uses it to denote a Christian, and that is what I am. We believe in the cross, we just don't hold it in the same esteem as you do. It means more to you than it does to us, but we still recognize its meaning.

God Bless,
Emerald Dragon

(mod hat off..this is a personal observation)

You have said the markings on the temple are your symbols.

All the use of the cross by you proves is your disrespect for the rules and the authority of the forum .

That seems an issue for Mormons (thinking Joseph Smith and Brigham Young here)

 

[MagusAlbertus]

I must say it is difficult to say that Mormons don't believe in the "same" God and Jesus Christ as you do, and that we aren't christians.

You reject Jon3:16 by changing the meaning of the words to whatever your deceptions tell you to.



If the bible has had the hand of the enemy in it, as it must if it does not have ALL we need, then isn't it reasonable to assume that he would also make a way for there to be added to it his own scriptures? That you sight from a book you believe to be devil tainted to prove that you are Christian’s shows that you have no Christian basis for your faith.

 

[elderbell]

You reject Jon3:16 by changing the meaning of the words to whatever your deceptions tell you to.



If the bible has had the hand of the enemy in it, as it must if it does not have ALL we need, then isn't it reasonable to assume that he would also make a way for their to be added to it his own scriptures? That you sight from a book you believe to be devil tainted to prove that you are Christian’s shows that you have no Christian basis for your faith.

We do not believe the Bible to be tainted. Examine the Bible closer, notice how long scripture was written by revelation from the Lord, notice how long Prophets were called. Since the beginning of time. So if God is perfect and unchanging, and has a plan, to insist that such does not happen even today is to challenge God's divine works. Where have any of us said, that the Bible is "devil tainted"? We believe in not only the Bible, but also the BOM/D&C/PoGP to be FURTHER revelation and testament of Jesus Christ. We are not "adding" to the Bible, we are presenting FURTHER scripture, it is a seperate book. Just as D&C is seperate from the BOM. You like to put words in people's mouths it's very unerving. I appreciate your passion for this discussion, but please do not imply on your petty reasoning.