• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

Messianics who preach circumcision

Discussion in 'Messianic Judaism' started by 31gH9N.9., May 25, 2018.

  1. Open Heart

    Open Heart Well-Known Member

    +4,321
    United States
    Seeker
    Celibate
    I'm have not read every post in the thread, and am not sure I'm going to read all five pages. Is someone saying that Gentiles SHOULD become Jews? That is not a claim of Messianism or Messianic Judaism.
     
  2. Open Heart

    Open Heart Well-Known Member

    +4,321
    United States
    Seeker
    Celibate
    Israel was not multinational. The mixed multitude that joined it became Israelites. There were sojourners in the land, but they did not become part of Israel. Often, their children did, becoming Israelites, but then having become Israelites, they weren't another nationality anymore.
     
  3. Open Heart

    Open Heart Well-Known Member

    +4,321
    United States
    Seeker
    Celibate
    I'm not sure what you mean. Ritual purity has nothing to do with sin. It's ceremonial. I do it. I wash my hands and stuff. Very MJ.
     
  4. Open Heart

    Open Heart Well-Known Member

    +4,321
    United States
    Seeker
    Celibate
    I get so tired of arguing with you about this. Jews disagree with you. Enough said.
     
  5. Open Heart

    Open Heart Well-Known Member

    +4,321
    United States
    Seeker
    Celibate
    Again, Jews disagree. Enough said.
     
  6. Open Heart

    Open Heart Well-Known Member

    +4,321
    United States
    Seeker
    Celibate
    1. The Catholic Church no longer allows the teaching of Replacement Theology. See the Vatican 2 document Nostra Aetate.

    2. Replacement Theology was rampant in ALL Christian Churches, and is still taught in too many Protestant churches.
     
  7. Open Heart

    Open Heart Well-Known Member

    +4,321
    United States
    Seeker
    Celibate
    Seventh Day Adventist
    United Methodist Church
    Evangelical Lutheran Church inAmerica
    Presbyterian Church
    American Methodist Episcopal Church
    Assemblies of God
    National Baptist Convention of America
    The Church of God in Christ
    Southern Baptist Convention
    National Baptist Convention USA
    National Missionary Baptist Convention of America
    Progressive National Baptist Convention Inc
    Episcopal Church
    Churches of Christ
    Pentecostal Assemblies of the World, Inc
    American Baptist Churches in the U.S.A
    African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church
    United Church of Christ
    Baptist Bible Fellowship International
    Christian Churches and Churches of Christ, Joplin, Mo
    Church of God, Cleveland, Tenn
     
  8. Open Heart

    Open Heart Well-Known Member

    +4,321
    United States
    Seeker
    Celibate
    The gifts and callings of God are irrevocable Romans 11:29
     
  9. Open Heart

    Open Heart Well-Known Member

    +4,321
    United States
    Seeker
    Celibate
    Genesis 17:13
    He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.
     
  10. Open Heart

    Open Heart Well-Known Member

    +4,321
    United States
    Seeker
    Celibate
    He is correct. You are teaching that we SHOULD NOT obey all aspects of the Torah. That is contrary to the SOP, which he quoted to you.
     
  11. Open Heart

    Open Heart Well-Known Member

    +4,321
    United States
    Seeker
    Celibate
    There is more than one place in Genesis that it says "everlasting covenant." You did not reply yet to my quote about circumcision being an everlasting covenant.
     
  12. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

    +6,138
    Messianic
    Those that were condemning Yeshua and His Disciples for not washing their hands, were very concerned over the importance of hand washing and walking the pure life.
     
  13. BukiRob

    BukiRob Newbie

    +959
    Messianic
    Married
    US-Constitution

    Well, your first premise regarding Acts 15 is completely wrong.

    This stems from the mistaken belief that people make because they try and make Acts 15 about something that it is not.

    Instead of trying to "figure out" what Acts 15 is about, why don't we see if scripture itself TELLS us what Acts 15 is all about shall we?

    Acts 15:1 Some men came down from Judea and began teaching the brethren, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.”

    So, what we see here is that Acts 15 is about "WHO CAN BE SAVED."

    So if you were to become a proselytized what as a goy did you have to do? Well, as a male you had to #1 be circumcised and #2 keep the mitzvot (commandments.) Which explains why those pharisee's who are BELIEVERS state in verse 5 5 But some of the sect of the Pharisees who had believed stood up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them and to direct them to observe the Law of Moses.

    In order to understand act 15, you have to try and put yourself in the place of the first century Jew. That is to say, that ONLY the Jew had a national identification with G-d. No other nation had a covenant with G-d other than Israel. If a Gentile wanted to have a relationship with G-d he HAD to do exactly what the Pharisee's explained. As such it was only natural for them to assume that ONLY the Jew could be saved.

    This is further supported by the TESTIMONY that is given by Peter, Paul and Barnabas. What you see in Acts 15 is the Mosaic dispute resolution in action. It was on the mouth of 2 or more witnesses that a matter is established.

    Peter, Paul and Barnabas ALL testify that G-d is working among the Gentiles and they are being SAVED.

    When you see it from its proper context it all makes sense and there is no conflict. James renders his judgment and when you take ALL of what he says you discover that the setting aside of the Torah is GROSS ERROR.

    The things to abstain from; 20 but that we write to them that they abstain from [j]things contaminated by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood.

    That is a bit of an odd list is it not? Idols, fornication, strangled and blood? What you see are the 4 things that are directly associated with Pagan Idolatry. Animals that were sacrificed to these idols were usually strangled and after the animal is dead they would often drain the blood and drink it. Additionally, temple prostitution was a social norm.

    Why this particular sin? Well, Idolatry was the only sin for which Israel was cast out of the land. When an unchurched person comes to Messiah as he or she is being discipled we don't unload everything at once but we start with the more serious sin and they will learn the rest over time by coming to church/synagogue and bible study.

    21 For Moses from ancient generations has in every city those who preach him, since [k]he is read in the synagogues every Sabbath.”
     
  14. Hoshiyya

    Hoshiyya Spenglerian

    +993
    Married
    too much penile concern. how would you even know if a friend of yours, a fellow believer or a religious figure is circumcised or not? you shouldn't even know that.
     
  15. pinacled

    pinacled walking with the Shekinah

    +459
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Private
    Governing authorities.
    Yes,
    Which also reminds me of Romans 13.

    I believe what viz was explaining is the apropriate services of the levites, until the garment of ten tribes were removed from yhdh, and levi.
    I'm not sure if there are many believers that have studied enough to Lean on the Lord for understanding.

    Also, it seems that many have ignored the fact that yochanon is born of levitical parents. And whose birth and later service was significantly an example of sound judgement and resolve.
     
  16. pinacled

    pinacled walking with the Shekinah

    +459
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Private
    By change of preisthood.
    Are you referring to the levites being counted among the tribes in Revelation?

    That is probably a subject that needs more than random statements.
    A congruent process of mature teaching like road marks throughout the terrain of the Torah.

    As for statement of festivals done away with.
    No, you are mistaken.
    You might as well remove singers from the Body of Messiah.
     
  17. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

    +742
    United States
    Oneness
    Private
    US-Others
    Wrong!
     
  18. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

    +742
    United States
    Oneness
    Private
    US-Others
    (Gifts and callings) How did you reason that those have to do with a covenant?
     
  19. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

    +742
    United States
    Oneness
    Private
    US-Others
    Everlasting means continual, that is, unless the covenant should be revoked.
     
  20. pat34lee

    pat34lee Messianic

    +2,574
    Messianic
    Single
    Last edited: May 28, 2018
Loading...