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Messianics who preach circumcision

Discussion in 'Messianic Judaism' started by 31gH9N.9., May 25, 2018.

  1. ralliann

    ralliann christian

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    Where do you get the idea I said the Levitical priesthood was set aside? I said the law has changed, because the priesthood is changed. The carnal commands do not apply to the Melchizedek order.
    Heb 8:4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
     
  2. Open Heart

    Open Heart Well-Known Member

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    Can you tell me which part of the paragraph was wrong? The topic sentence was followed by several illustrations. Let me list them and you tell me which of them you disagree with:
    1. The mixed multitude that joined Israel in the Exodus became Israelites.
    2. There were strangers who dwelt in the land, but they usually did not become part of the Children of Israel.
    3. Often, their children did, becoming Israelites, but then having become Israelites, they weren't another nationality anymore (just as those who convert to Judaism today give up their former ethnicity claims and become 100% Jew)
    If you go to the Hebrew, you will find there are two classes of strangers. The first is the zarim (זָרִים) or nokhrim (נָכְרִים) who were temporary sojourners (e.g., Ex. 21:8; 29:33). They often came in for a while i.e. to trade. They were not expected to follow Jewish law, and they were barred for ritual life, i.e. they could not attend the Passover.

    Then there was the ger (גֵּר) or resident alien. Ger also means convert. These became Israelites and set aside their former nationalities (although they were always kind of discriminated against) and they were expected to abide by the covenant in full. Rahab and Ruth were examples of these. See Numbers 15:15 The community is to have the same rules for you and for the Ger residing among you; this is a lasting ordinance for the generations to come. You and the Ger shall be the same before the LORD.
     
  3. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

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    Hebrews 7:11
    [ Jesus Like Melchizedek ] If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood—and indeed the law given to the people established that priesthood—why was there still need for another priest to come, one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron?
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
    Hebrews 7:12
    For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
    Hebrews 7:24
    but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
     
  4. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

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    You ooze such a great multitude of errors that no one can keep up with them all. God had every right to revoke the covenant. That is why Paul preached against getting circumcised to the new converts. The disciples kept the old covenant law until the temple was destroyed, then they preached that we are the temple.
     
  5. Open Heart

    Open Heart Well-Known Member

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    Correction. Yeshua and some of his disciples washed their hands, and some other of his disciples did not. We don't know how many did not. My assumption was very few, given that Yeshua did.
     
  6. Open Heart

    Open Heart Well-Known Member

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    My mistake. "The priesthood has changed" sounds a lot like one priesthood has been replaced with another which is something a LOT of Christians believe. Thank you for clarifying.
     
  7. Open Heart

    Open Heart Well-Known Member

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    These verses have no impact on anything I said. A new priesthood is set up that is different, that has a new set of rules. It doesn't abrogate the old priesthood. Why are you arguing that Torah is set aside?
     
  8. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

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    Zechariah 11:7-11. Three Shepherds And The Revoked Covenant.


    Zechariah 11
    7 So I pastured the flock marked for slaughter, particularly the oppressed of the flock. Then I took two staffs and called one Favor and the other Union, and I pastured the flock.
    8 In one month I got rid of the three shepherds.
    The flock detested me, and I grew weary of them 9 and said, "I will not be your shepherd. Let the dying die, and the perishing perish. Let those who are left eat one another's flesh."
    10 Then I took my staff called Favor and broke it, revoking the covenant I had made with all the nations.
    11 It was revoked on that day, and so the afflicted of the flock who were watching me knew it was the word [Yahshua] of [the Lord / Yahwah.]

    The Sanhedrin (Hebrew and Aramaic: סנהדרין; Greek: Συνέδριον, synedrion, "sitting together," hence "assembly" or "council") was an assembly of twenty-three or seventy-one rabbis appointed to sit as a tribunal in every city in the ancient Land of Israel.

    The Sadducees were members of a Jewish sect founded in the second century BC, possibly as a political party. They ceased to exist sometime after the first century AD.

    Thus the Three Shepherds: Sanhedrin, Sadducees, and Pharisees.


    Hebrews 8:13
    By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2018
  9. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

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    Hebrews 8:13
    By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
     
  10. Open Heart

    Open Heart Well-Known Member

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    CR: the word everlasting was originally a compound word, coming from ever (a synonym of for ever, now combined as forever) and lasting. IOW forever lasting. You can't weasel out of this one, no matter how much you personally attack me and change the subject.
     
  11. Open Heart

    Open Heart Well-Known Member

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    Read your text again. He revoked the covenant he had made with the NATIONS, not the one he was made with Israel. And it would have to be one that was not everlating, so it was not the Noahide covenant. That would leave something about his covenant with Adam. I am mystified, because I don't know what it is. I only know what its general category.
     
  12. Open Heart

    Open Heart Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it will disappear. But it has not disappeared YET. It will disappear when this world is over. The NEW covenant will go on into eternity.
     
  13. Open Heart

    Open Heart Well-Known Member

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    The Sanhedrin was not a sect like the Sadducees and Pharisees, but was a legislative body. "one of these things is not like the other; one of these things just doesn't belong." What you've done is group together the equivalent of Congress, Republicans, and Democrats. Congress doesn't belong with the political parties.
     
  14. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

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    Circumcision was to be continual, but God revoked the covenant of circumcision. The covenant of circumcision is now obsolete because a New Covenant has been put in place of that one.
     
  15. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

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    Are you on drugs?
     
  16. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

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    Where do you get all of these wrong ideas?
     
  17. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

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    People can have a covenant circumcision, but it will be of no benefit as a covenant, because it has been revoked.
     
  18. Open Heart

    Open Heart Well-Known Member

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    I just used perfectly sound reasoning with you. It's called classification. It's used in all tests for education and IQ. If you can't see that the Sanhedrin (a legislative body) is not comparable to the Pharisees and Saducees (both religious sects) then I don't know what to tell you.

    Tell me what is wrong with this group:
    wolves, lions, a zoo
     
  19. Open Heart

    Open Heart Well-Known Member

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    Where do you get yours?
     
  20. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

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    Colossians 3:11
    Here there is no Gentile or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
     
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