Meaning of Due Benevolence

[LinkH]

I'd vote for Bachman over Obama. I'd vote for just about anyone else on the other side over Hillary Clinton if she ran again.

 

[MessianicMommy]

There was a time when it really bothered me that the abstinence prescribed following the birth of a male child is 40 days while the abstinence after a female child is 80 days. But I was looking at the abstinence as more of a "punishment" because Leviticus refers to her as "unclean". I inferred an "inferiority" in the uncleanness from a female childbirth lasting twice as long...

NOW, I think it was God's provision for the mommy and the female child, a blessing for them and "good for their health" as you have pointed out.

Yes, very much so. When you go into it medically speaking, there's just more involved in providing for a little girl (the extra estrogen flying around) and such that mama needs more rest and recoup. I'd looove to have a little girl, but I don't think it's in the cards for us. I love my little boys so much though. They're just perfect for us.

For us, we waited longer since I wasn't very well and we both were so sleep deprived. No one could hardly remember their name, let alone what time of day, week or what sex was to even think about it.

As far as "unclean" it isn't a stigma or anything. It just is ritual impurity that makes us unable to meet with G-d at his house during any individual time due to the change in our bodies. It isn't sinful or wrong and doesn't make the person any less worthwhile than someone else in the situation. Same for men with emissions or people with other bodily issues (like leprosy).

Most people I've heard say it is just a special time to relax, rest, and not have to worry about the daily mundane. You've got time to yourself - which is not often something wives with lots of children have (which many do within Judaism).

With the temple not being in place, many find this is just "practice rounds" for when it is again, so we remember what to do and don't need further instruction. Not everyone does it, but most are aware of what it is and what it entails at the very least.


anyway...

 

[JaneFW]

I could see how the public would be more tolerant with his exerting influence over his wife than Palin's fisherman oil worker husband, for example.

If I elect a person to government, I expect that person to be running this country - not their husband or their wife. I think it's quite horrific to imagine that a female leader has to have a husband to "advise" her behind the scenes. That's what his or her fellow elected and selected officials are supposed to do. The spouse should have zero input.

 

[Psalm63]

Yes, very much so. When you go into it medically speaking, there's just more involved in providing for a little girl (the extra estrogen flying around) and such that mama needs more rest and recoup. I'd looove to have a little girl, but I don't think it's in the cards for us. I love my little boys so much though. They're just perfect for us.

For us, we waited longer since I wasn't very well and we both were so sleep deprived. No one could hardly remember their name, let alone what time of day, week or what sex was to even think about it.

As far as "unclean" it isn't a stigma or anything. It just is ritual impurity that makes us unable to meet with G-d at his house during any individual time due to the change in our bodies. It isn't sinful or wrong and doesn't make the person any less worthwhile than someone else in the situation. Same for men with emissions or people with other bodily issues (like leprosy).

Most people I've heard say it is just a special time to relax, rest, and not have to worry about the daily mundane. You've got time to yourself - which is not often something wives with lots of children have (which many do within Judaism).

With the temple not being in place, many find this is just "practice rounds" for when it is again, so we remember what to do and don't need further instruction. Not everyone does it, but most are aware of what it is and what it entails at the very least.


anyway...

That is SUCH a refreshing way to look at it MM! Thank you!

Speaking as the mother of 8 living children who was seriously overwhelmed on many occasions, thinking of those odd seeming regulations as a God given place of rest really ministers to me!

 

[Psalm63]

My wife didn't want me to drive a motorcycle through Jakarta traffic, and so I didn't buy one. Since I love her, I don't want her to worry. She cares about me and wants me to be safe.

But the way some of those ojek drivers drive, I might have been safer with my own bike. I did take ojek quite a bit there.

Good decision!

Is that the same as a becak?

We did use a motorcycle there (probably crazy but it was provided by the university). At least over there the traffic is used to a lot of motorcycles and more aware of them than here.

 

[mkgal1]

Yes, very much so. When you go into it medically speaking, there's just more involved in providing for a little girl (the extra estrogen flying around) and such that mama needs more rest and recoup. I'd looove to have a little girl, but I don't think it's in the cards for us. I love my little boys so much though. They're just perfect for us.

For us, we waited longer since I wasn't very well and we both were so sleep deprived. No one could hardly remember their name, let alone what time of day, week or what sex was to even think about it.

As far as "unclean" it isn't a stigma or anything. It just is ritual impurity that makes us unable to meet with G-d at his house during any individual time due to the change in our bodies. It isn't sinful or wrong and doesn't make the person any less worthwhile than someone else in the situation. Same for men with emissions or people with other bodily issues (like leprosy).

Most people I've heard say it is just a special time to relax, rest, and not have to worry about the daily mundane. You've got time to yourself - which is not often something wives with lots of children have (which many do within Judaism).

With the temple not being in place, many find this is just "practice rounds" for when it is again, so we remember what to do and don't need further instruction. Not everyone does it, but most are aware of what it is and what it entails at the very least.


anyway...

I LOVE hearing about Jewish law (?).....I think we get a deeper sense of G-d's holiness and provision. I have read that during the bubonic plague, many Jews were spared because of their ritual cleansings that are done morning and night.

Instead of perceiving them as rules just for the sake of rules (God said so).....even if we don't understand the meaning behind them (like the extra estrogen in our bodies from birthing a female child)we have to know they are ALL for our benefit. Thanks so much for sharing.

 

[moonkitty]

Without food you will die. Without sex, well, you won't die. That's why you can't use that analogy.

And no it doesn't kill a person when they go without sex. You can die from all kinds of things, but not from lack of sex. Trust me, I know this to be true.

But I think it can kill the love one spouse may feel, or at least cause resentment. I'm not saying that a spouse has to preform sex every single time his or her spouse request it; nor am I saying that a spouse gives up the right to say no when they are married. I think both parties should take into consideration each other's needs.

I have seen in the lives of people I know where one spouse refused sex on a long term bases--months and even years. That I think is wrong. I have seen loving spouses turned hateful towards their husband/wife when refused for long periods of time.

 

[moonkitty]

It's all in the mind anyway. Sorry, random thoughts. JR will be going without sex while her h is away. Oh, I know, "that's different". But really, it's not. It's still no sex. You just wait, is all, and you do without, and when it comes around, that's fine. But when it goes away ... oh well, it's gone. I don't think it's something that is worth getting stressed out about, not anymore.

I didn't marry my husband just for the sex; but we did pledge that we will only have sex with each other. So if my husband took this line of thought with me that oh well I don't want sex anymore so you have to learn to live without it--I would be deeply hurt and would most likely either have affairs or leave the marriage.

 

[chaz345]

I will take my chances....although I do fear I'm stepping into dangerous territory of being misunderstood.

If men went into marriage with the knowledge that their wife is their "mirror", reflecting how well they are doing in their ministry that G-d had called them into (marriage)...then, they may be able to link the two better (how they are treating their wife is a reflection of how their relationship is with God--how they perceive G-d).

But she's not his mirror because she's a flawed imperfect being whose own personal preferences can alter the reflection.

 

[JRSut1000]

The Word is our mirror.

 

[mkgal1]

The Word is our mirror.

And so is our spouse.....and everyone we are in a relationship with, really. We cannot throw out the influence of our most intimate relationship as our "yardstick" or reflection of how we are living out God's word.

It's like dismorphia.....if left to our own perceptions, we could be *seeing* ourself in a completely distorted way than we really are.

I realize it's possible that our spouse can be like a fun house mirror as well.....that's when the counsel of the wise comes into play.

 

[Psalm63]

Chaz, I AGREE with what you have stated in the quote below!!!!
(and will bookmark this )

I'm against anything that gives a spouse authority when it comes to matters that involve personal preference as opposed to sin.

I bask in the glow of our AGREEMENT and I look forward to your support in the future when an issue arises where this is not applied in an even handed manner because of the gender of the person with the "personal preferences".

On that exhilarating note, I have to stop procrastinating and bow out of this stimulating conversation and get some very boring filing done...

 

[JaneFW]

I have seen in the lives of people I know where one spouse refused sex on a long term bases--months and even years. That I think is wrong. I have seen loving spouses turned hateful towards their husband/wife when refused for long periods of time.

I didn't marry my husband just for the sex; but we did pledge that we will only have sex with each other. So if my husband took this line of thought with me that oh well I don't want sex anymore so you have to learn to live without it--I would be deeply hurt and would most likely either have affairs or leave the marriage.

But, my argument is that these are choices, and none of them are the right choices for us, as Christians to make. (IMO, okay?)

After the first few years of being consistently rejected by my husband, when I had tried so many different things to change that, I did become hateful toward him. I hated him, I hated marriage, I hated the whole concept of what our marriage was, to the point of saying it wasn't a marriage, and considering whether I should have an affair or leave him. However, I don't consider these to be options. A divorce would do untold harm to our children, two of which have already been through a parental divorce. The other child - ours - would have to choose which parent he would live with. I cannot imagine, for one moment, visiting that decision upon that child and destroying his innocent trust in us. So, no divorce.

I several times thought about whether I should take up any of the offers that have come my way several times over the years. Part of me knew I would not because I had to wonder what kind of man would make advances toward a married woman? Certainly not one who I would want to get to know very well in any respect, even as a friend. I'm kind of picky. So, on that level, an affair was out anyway, because I wouldn't want to have sex with someone who wanted to have sex with a married woman. Does that make sense? Also - I just am not that person. I also realized that while I desired sex, I also discovered that I desired sex with my husband. It wasn't sex for the sake of sex. I mean, anyone can have an [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], for goodness sake. It was the connection I wanted with him in particular. So, having an affair with another man would not get me what I actually wanted. And, also, I'm a Christian and this is breaking God's law. And, also, chances are if my h found out, he would divorce me. And also, the kids would hate me. Way, way, WAY too many downsides.

I will honestly say that have been times that I have looked at my husband with pure, naked hatred. They are now in the past, but at different times, yes. I ranted, raged, fumed, stamped .. etc. How could he? Why did he marry me? Why why why .. etc. I also thought some things that I won't repeat.

It's really in the past year, and sometimes in the past few weeks, that I have re-thought most of this and come to a place where I have been able to accept and give up the anger and angst. I have some really good female friends who give me a lot of direction and support, and one of them said something in the last few days which I have been thinking about for a while. She was dealing with a lot of stress and grief and anger, and her resolution was that, no matter what, she is going to embrace the joy in life. That lines up with a lot of things I have been thinking myself recently, and so it totally bouyed me up with hope for the future.

So, sorry for long post, but it really is my contention that people can deal with a less than ideal marriage, and they can find joy, and they can have a good life, and they can be a good parent and spouse. I think that God calls us to DO that. After all, our lives here are never going to be perfect. I think it's how we handle the imperfect that shows our love for Him and His teaching in us.

 

[mkgal1]

So, sorry for long post, but it really is my contention that people can deal with a less than ideal marriage, and they can find joy, and they can have a good life, and they can be a good parent and spouse. I think that God calls us to DO that. After all, our lives here are never going to be perfect. I think it's how we handle the imperfect that shows our love for Him and His teaching in us.

Awesome post, Jane! You summed it up very well in your last sentence....I agree.

Yesterday I had a conversation with a friend, and we were talking about truth and balancing that with love (grace and truth, really). I had heard on the radio how this recent battle against stores that aren't using "Christ" in their Christmas promotions are being attacked. There's been a list circulating and some pastors are even sharing that with their congregations, instructing them to not spend their money at these stores. They have made it a battle....a war--often against the one's that may not believe in G-d yet (due to the behavior of other people). This is only reinforcing their reasons for NOT using "Christ" in their promotions. It really misrepresents G-d....and we need to protect His repuation when so many others are dragging it through the mud.

Just because others don't know the truth, doesn't mean we have to be the ones to beat it into them---that is separating grace from truth. We can't use just grace, either.....as that runs into condoning or even enabling behavior. It's a tough balance....but, a critical one.

 

[moonkitty]

But, my argument is that these are choices, and none of them are the right choices for us, as Christians to make. (IMO, okay?)

After the first few years of being consistently rejected by my husband, when I had tried so many different things to change that, I did become hateful toward him. I hated him, I hated marriage, I hated the whole concept of what our marriage was, to the point of saying it wasn't a marriage, and considering whether I should have an affair or leave him. However, I don't consider these to be options. A divorce would do untold harm to our children, two of which have already been through a parental divorce. The other child - ours - would have to choose which parent he would live with. I cannot imagine, for one moment, visiting that decision upon that child and destroying his innocent trust in us. So, no divorce.

I several times thought about whether I should take up any of the offers that have come my way several times over the years. Part of me knew I would not because I had to wonder what kind of man would make advances toward a married woman? Certainly not one who I would want to get to know very well in any respect, even as a friend. I'm kind of picky. So, on that level, an affair was out anyway, because I wouldn't want to have sex with someone who wanted to have sex with a married woman. Does that make sense? Also - I just am not that person. I also realized that while I desired sex, I also discovered that I desired sex with my husband. It wasn't sex for the sake of sex. I mean, anyone can have an [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], for goodness sake. It was the connection I wanted with him in particular. So, having an affair with another man would not get me what I actually wanted. And, also, I'm a Christian and this is breaking God's law. And, also, chances are if my h found out, he would divorce me. And also, the kids would hate me. Way, way, WAY too many downsides.

I will honestly say that have been times that I have looked at my husband with pure, naked hatred. They are now in the past, but at different times, yes. I ranted, raged, fumed, stamped .. etc. How could he? Why did he marry me? Why why why .. etc. I also thought some things that I won't repeat.

It's really in the past year, and sometimes in the past few weeks, that I have re-thought most of this and come to a place where I have been able to accept and give up the anger and angst. I have some really good female friends who give me a lot of direction and support, and one of them said something in the last few days which I have been thinking about for a while. She was dealing with a lot of stress and grief and anger, and her resolution was that, no matter what, she is going to embrace the joy in life. That lines up with a lot of things I have been thinking myself recently, and so it totally bouyed me up with hope for the future.

So, sorry for long post, but it really is my contention that people can deal with a less than ideal marriage, and they can find joy, and they can have a good life, and they can be a good parent and spouse. I think that God calls us to DO that. After all, our lives here are never going to be perfect. I think it's how we handle the imperfect that shows our love for Him and His teaching in us.

The part I bolded, about making the connection, is what would hurt me the most about being refused sex by my spouse. And I'm sorry if you are having to deal with this.

I know myself, and I have never been able to make that sort of deep connection without sex. I have had very close friendships and I am extremely close to my younger sister. But the connection I make with my husband through sex is different. Everyone is different, and if you have found peace, happiness, and connection in a marriage with little sex then I tip my hat to you. But I know I would be devastated and I don't think I could get over that sort of hurt and rejection (and I'm not talking about one night rejections, but long term).

I'm also a very socialable person, and I think I would end up trying to find that connection with another man. I crave that sort of connection--I think I would be very open to an affair or divorce if I was in that sort of situation.

 

[LinkH]

But I think it can kill the love one spouse may feel, or at least cause resentment. I'm not saying that a spouse has to preform sex every single time his or her spouse request it; nor am I saying that a spouse gives up the right to say no when they are married. I think both parties should take into consideration each other's needs.

I don't believe one spouse should refuse or decline sex unless there is a good reason, and if there is, get to it soon. The 'my body is your body' is a good attitude to have, and consistent with I Corinthians 7.

It sure is a lot easier to feel loved in a marriage when one's spouse has the attitude that their partner's sexual needs are a priority and 'takes care of them' with joy, than if the other partner rolls his or her eyes and says, "Again! I just did that with you last Valentine's Day!"

 

[mkgal1]

I don't believe one spouse should refuse or decline sex unless there is a good reason, and if there is, get to it soon. The 'my body is your body' is a good attitude to have, and consistent with I Corinthians 7.

It sure is a lot easier to feel loved in a marriage when one's spouse has the attitude that their partner's sexual needs are a priority and 'takes care of them' with joy, than if the other partner rolls his or her eyes and says, "Again! I just did that with you last Valentine's Day!"

I think the point that's being attempted to be made is....your having that belief....me having that belief....or any other spouse holding that belief, isn't going to do much to change the other's mind about NOT thinking that. IOW....it's within them.

What's a benevolent way to handle an unwilling spouse? Any other way than what Jane described seems to be against benevolence....IMO.

 

[hijklmnop]

So what can a wife do if her husband is being controlling and not considerate of her desires? She can pray.

She can do a heck of a lot more than that.

Women should not be afraid to submit to their husbands.

I feel strong distaste when a man tells me how I should "feel" because I am a woman.

I am in graduate school and have been for a number of years. I believed this is what the Lord wanted me to do, and my wife also prayed and before we made moves to each of the schools, we were both in agreement that we believed these were the schools the Lord wanted us to go to. I want my wife to be on board on these decisions. Though my wife hears God on all kinds of things, I got direction on these decisions first. I would pray for the Lord to tell her before I mentioned it to her, but I had to offer the leadership and start moving in the direction first, and then she would pray and get confirmations about it. It wasn't a war between us, though. We were seeking God's will.

It seems to me that if you're already leading in the direction of your choosing/what you believe to be God's direction and she believes she must submit there's not much room for argument whether she prays about it herself or not. What if she felt that God was telling her that you shouldn't go to school once you'd already got the ball rolling? Curious...

 

[JRSut1000]

The BIBLE says it, so why is that distasteful? "like Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him her master. You are her daughters if you do what is right and do not give way to fear."

 

[JRSut1000]

"No man is gonna tell ME what to do!" Sounds like a teenager (rebellious) attitude when put that way doesnt it? Not that of a meek and quiet spirit. I feel a strong distaste when I sense this attitude among Christian women.