Meaning of Due Benevolence

[Psalm63]

Verse 3 speaks of "due benevolence" I DON'T think "due benevolence" refers merely to sex. I think it encompasses a LOT more than "just" sex! Verse 33-34 flesh out some more this KINDNESS/BENEVOLENCE aspect which Paul expects in marriage.

Verse 4 speaks of each having authority over the body of the other

Verse 5 speaks of the fasting

I see verse 4 and 5 as the "sexual entitlement"


I would also point out that Paul is speaking to the Corinthians correcting a cultic belief that married couples should remain celibate. He is not speaking to modern American men who have "learned" about sex from porn. He is not teaching that marriage entitles anyone to have sex on demand whenever they want regardless of the other person. (And I HAVE heard the passage used that way).

I would point out another passage written by the very same Paul which people should be looking at equally carefully when it comes to sex in marriage. In this passage, Paul warns that anyone who engages in "the lust of concupiscence like the Gentiles" is cheating his brother(spouse). (1 Thes 4:3-8)

Porn use warps marital sexual intimacy and should be expelled from among those who claim Christ.

My husband attended a purity seminar by a teacher who said that the entitlement of a wife over her husband's body gives her the authority to nix his porn use. According to that teacher, a man shouldn't be playing with that little head without his wife's permission.

 

[chaz345]

My husband attended a purity seminar by a teacher who said that the entitlement of a wife over her husband's body gives her the authority to nix his porn use. According to that teacher, a man shouldn't be playing with that little head without his wife's permission.

IMO, a man's porn use or lackthereof should be an issue of him pleasing God or not, not pleasing his wife or not. He should stop because God says so, not because his wife says so.

 

[LinkH]

Verse 3 speaks of "due benevolence" I DON'T think "due benevolence" refers merely to sex.

Isn't the logical conclusion then that couples can refrain from being benevolent to one another while they are fasting from sex? That's what I am getting at in the OP.

I agree that sex and everything else in marriage should be done in benevolence. I just don't see that as the point Paul is making.

I would also point out that Paul is speaking to the Corinthians correcting a cultic belief that married couples should remain celibate.

What is the specific primary evidence for this from Corinth? And why would this belief be applied to married couples, as opposed to singles who were considering marriage? Paul seems to address that issue quite a bit in the passage, whether it was a sin to marry.

He is not speaking to modern American men who have "learned" about sex from porn.

He is not teaching that marriage entitles anyone to have sex on demand whenever they want regardless of the other person. (And I HAVE heard the passage used that way).

If one's spouse has power over one's body in regard to sexuality, wouldn't that imply that if one's spouse wants sex, and one is able, one should give one's spouse their due? I certainly see it as a passage about meeting the others' sexual needs. I still don't like the 'sex on demand' description.

I would point out another passage written by the very same Paul which people should be looking at equally carefully when it comes to sex in marriage. In this passage, Paul warns that anyone who engages in "the lust of concupiscence like the Gentiles" is cheating his brother(spouse). (1 Thes 4:3-8)

He could be cheating the brother who would have been the spouse of the other person.

Porn use warps marital sexual intimacy and should be expelled from among those who claim Christ.

I think we all agree that porn is bad. So is looking on all the partially-clad people walking around in order to lust after them, or swimsuit-clad models on billboards. Those are a little harder to avoid in some places.

 

[LinkH]

My husband attended a purity seminar by a teacher who said that the entitlement of a wife over her husband's body gives her the authority to nix his porn use. According to that teacher, a man shouldn't be playing with that little head without his wife's permission.

He may have a valid point.

But this works out a lot better if the wife takes what you call a 'sex on demand' interpretation of I Corinthians 7.

 

[Psalm63]

IMO, a man's porn use or lackthereof should be an issue of him pleasing God or not, not pleasing his wife or not. He should stop because God says so, not because his wife says so.

I thought that was pretty controlling myself and I don't want MY husband controlling what I do with MY body either.

what goes for the gander goes for the goose (paraphrase of 1 Cor 7:4)

 

[mkgal1]

IMO, a man's porn use or lackthereof should be an issue of him pleasing God or not, not pleasing his wife or not. He should stop because God says so, not because his wife says so.

Sometimes he doesn't hear God saying "stop", but he *may* hear his wife saying "stop....or I am out of here". I'm pretty certain that using porn never pleases God. If it comes to the point where the wife has reached her capacity to dwell with the situation.....then, it becomes soley about the husband and God. As long as she is in the marriage, his faithfulness *is* her business.

 

[dallasapple]

I think we all agree that porn is bad. So is looking on all the partially-clad people walking around in order to lust after them, or swimsuit-clad models on billboards. Those are a little harder to avoid in some places.

Deliberately seekign out porn ..then deliberately masturbatign to it..is a little more sinsister than seeign someone by accident which in that case the person should at least not be rude and violating by wagging their tonge out at strangers when they are minidng thier own business..the way I look at it if someone is that sexually deranged they need to go turn themselves into a psychiatric ward and get shock treaments and be retrained on how to act properly or just stay home..

Dallas

 

[JaneFW]

It's called "bouncing the eyes" and it's something that ALL addicts have to learn about. Just like you and I, Dallas, don't dwell on the aisles where the booze lives in the grocery store, so a sex addict needs to turn his or her eyes from scantily clad members of the opposite sex. It's yet another choice.

 

[Psalm63]

Isn't the logical conclusion then that couples can refrain from being benevolent to one another while they are fasting from sex? That's what I am getting at in the OP.

No.

Benevolence should characterize their relationship. (see also verses 33-34) There is not any mention of fasting from benevolence (aka kindness, consideration, respect, etc).

I agree that sex and everything else in marriage should be done in benevolence. I just don't see that as the point Paul is making.

see verses 33-34

 

[JanniGirl]

Infidelity is between whoever commits it and God, huh? -- The Bible doesn't support that. And like any transgression, the Bible would have you seek out the one you wronged (your spouse) and repent & make things right. That's Biblical. The Bible doesn't simply say that our sin life is just between ourselves and God.

With porn, this is a convenient lie men like to use so as not to be accountable to the person they've harmed -- their spouse. When you fantasize and lust after people in order to stimulate yourself sexually, you are defrauding your spouse and abusing your body. That's my opinion and it happens to be fully supported by scripture.

 

[Psalm63]

If one's spouse has power over one's body in regard to sexuality, wouldn't that imply that if one's spouse wants sex, and one is able, one should give one's spouse their due? I certainly see it as a passage about meeting the others' sexual needs. I still don't like the 'sex on demand' description.

I have experienced this passage used in a coercive demanding manner which has everything to do with the Centerfold Syndrome and the discipleship of porn use and nothing to do with the sacred and mutual physical intimacy of marriage which God intends (and which I have also experienced).

He could be cheating the brother who would have been the spouse of the other person.

"brother" in Greek can refer to a male or female.

 

[Psalm63]

I think we all agree that porn is bad. So is looking on all the partially-clad people walking around in order to lust after them, or swimsuit-clad models on billboards. Those are a little harder to avoid in some places.

I think that it is entirely possible and quite reasonable to expect that CHRISTIAN men can be CHRIST-like and I don't think Jesus ever lusted no matter how scantily clad nor provocatively behaving a woman was (even totally nude). This is because He did not look upon the flesh; He looked upon the person and saw the brokenness which drives such behavior and had compassion upon her as a sheep without a shepherd.

 

[Psalm63]

Infidelity is between whoever commits it and God, huh? -- The Bible doesn't support that. And like any transgression, the Bible would have you seek out the one you wronged (your spouse) and repent & make things right. That's Biblical. The Bible doesn't simply say that our sin life is just between ourselves and God.

With porn, this is a convenient lie men like to use so as not to be accountable to the person they've harmed -- their spouse. When you fantasize and lust after people in order to stimulate yourself sexually, you are defrauding your spouse and abusing your body. That's my opinion and it happens to be fully supported by scripture.

If they think they aren't accountable, they are believing another lie (and it sucks to be them :o).

4Respect and honor your wife. 5Don't be a slave of your desires or live like people who don't know God. 6You must not cheat any of the Lord's followers in matters of sex. Remember, we warned you that he punishes everyone who does such things. 7God didn't choose you to be filthy, but to be pure. 8So if you don't obey these rules, you are not really disobeying us. You are disobeying God, who gives you his Holy Spirit. 1 Thes 4:3-8


3 But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people. 4 Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. 5 For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a person is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. 7 Therefore do not be partners with them. Eph 5:3-7
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[sdmsanjose]

Originally Posted by Psalm63 http://www.christianforums.com/t7616124-5/#post59298496
My husband attended a purity seminar by a teacher who said that the entitlement of a wife over her husband's body gives her the authority to nix his porn use. According to that teacher, a man shouldn't be playing with that little head without his wife's permission.

reply by Chaz
IMO, a man's porn use or lackthereof should be an issue of him pleasing God or not, not pleasing his wife or not. He should stop because God says so, not because his wife says so.

Chaz, your statement seems like faulty analogy.

With your faulty analogy, a woman could have sex with another man and ignore you and your analogy says that it is only between the woman and God; that it is an issue of the woman pleasing God and not her husband. If you are a normal man then your wife having sex with another man involves God and YOU! The same goes for lusting after pornography.

A man (or woman) that is doing something destructive to the relationship with God and spouse should stop for at least two reasons. One is that that the action is disrespectful to God and the second is that it is disrespectful to the wife (husband).

The husband has an OBLIGATION to stop doing something that is destructive to the marriage and the wife has the authority to confront the husband about him damaging her. If the man truly loves his wife then he will stop doing actions that damage her.

In a marriage you are accountable to God and your spouse. If you want to be just accountable to God then don’t get married.

 

[dallasapple]

In a marriage you are accountable to God and your spouse. If you want to be just accountable to God then don’t get married.

I aso need to point otu the blaring double standard..which is the wifes(spouse) accountabel to him (her) supposedly if its somethign that they want or makes them feel good.

Dallas

 

[McScribe]

I think that it is entirely possible and quite reasonable to expect that CHRISTIAN men can be CHRIST-like and I don't think Jesus ever lusted no matter how scantily clad nor provocatively behaving a woman was (even totally nude). This is because He did not look upon the flesh; He looked upon the person and saw the brokenness which drives such behavior and had compassion upon her as a sheep without a shepherd.

We have absolutely no way of knowing for sure until later on, but we do know that Jesus was tempted as we were tempted and resisted. I don't think it's the temptation that is the issue, it's how you respond. And Jesus would not have lusted, but he might have felt desire. Desire and lust aren't quite the same thing. Since Jesus was not held captive by the sinfully tainted feelings we struggle with, I believe he could have felt desire but not been held captive by it.

 

[LinkH]

I think that it is entirely possible and quite reasonable to expect that CHRISTIAN men can be CHRIST-like and I don't think Jesus ever lusted no matter how scantily clad nor provocatively behaving a woman was (even totally nude). This is because He did not look upon the flesh; He looked upon the person and saw the brokenness which drives such behavior and had compassion upon her as a sheep without a shepherd.

Christian men can keep their hearts pure even when surrounded by billboards in a Japanese subway. You can make efforts to keep porn off your screen. Just don't look for it and turn off pictures if you are searching for a topic that has a keyword that could be found in porn or whatever. You can't help who walks around you or what ads are posted around town. Fortunately, the US isn't that bad for ads in most places if you don't look in magazines or on TV.

My point is the issue isn't just looking up porn sites or buying dirty magazines. It is looking in order to lust, and one could do the same sin without buying or clicking on porn.

 

[LinkH]

David said, "Against You, and You only I have sinned" after sleeping with Bathsheba?

Did he also sin against other people? He did not say he had sinned against Michal, Ahinoam, Abigail, Maachah, Haggith, Abital, Egelah, his concubines, or even Uriah or Bathsheba.

 

[Psalm63]

David said, "Against You, and You only I have sinned" after sleeping with Bathsheba?

Did he also sin against other people? He did not say he had sinned against Michal, Ahinoam, Abigail, Maachah, Haggith, Abital, Egelah, his concubines, or even Uriah or Bathsheba.

David isn't God and while I love the Psalms for their emotional honesty and transparency, David fails as a role model for marriage and parenting.

Eph 5 refers to a wife as the "body" of her husband. There and in several other places, marriage is referred to as "one flesh".

Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body. 1 Cor 6:18
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[Psalm63]

David said, "Against You, and You only I have sinned" after sleeping with Bathsheba?

Did he also sin against other people? He did not say he had sinned against Michal, Ahinoam, Abigail, Maachah, Haggith, Abital, Egelah, his concubines, or even Uriah or Bathsheba.

So, David sleeps with Bathsheeba and impregnates her then murders her husband Uriah because he was on military duty and would not sleep with his wife (David tried to set that up to cover his tracks but Uriah is a man of honor who will not disobey the rules and have sex with his own wife).

David says that. The baby is born and dies (God's judgment). The other children borne to David are whack jobs who follow David's role model of immorality (sleeping with daddy's gf, raping their sisters, etc)

and the "sin" is against God only?

I could come up with some very interesting scenarios to see if you are consistent with this view. For example, your wife aborts your child against your will. She hasn't sinned against you? Against her child?

Just sayin....