• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

Matthew 24, verse by verse - Fulfilled

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by parousia70, May 23, 2014.

  1. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    +1,601
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Private
    Inter, the abomination of desolation is something that will be standing in the holy place to be worshiped. It is rebellion, but against God. It will be an idol, in the image of the beast. Not a group of Jews rebelling against the Roman occupiers.
     
  2. Interplanner

    Interplanner Newbie

    +96
    Non-Denom
    Single
    You can't conclude that from Luke though, I mean the whole range of references to the background revolutionary movements/Galileans. The rebellion identified by the Daniel passage and Luke is not just against the Romans, but against Temple Judaism.

    The key phrase to watch is when 'den of thieves' is made to be 'den of leistes' which are brigands, terrorists, insurrectionists. It is used in a time lapse way: it's what the temple is becoming. And there is a lot about the zealots that is incorrigible yet they claim to be more inspired than the temple.

    The Thess material should also first be understood about the same times, since it is spoken of as present and even as completed (the wrath of God as completed).

    So I see the 1st questions about Mt 24 are being ignored all over again. Due to the surge of futurism. People just automatically leap to the/our future. For no good reason.

    NT eschatology is either 1st century Judean OR distant future universal.
     
  3. MithrandirOlorin888

    MithrandirOlorin888 Junior Member

    140
    +3
    Christian
    Single
    "The Thess material should also first be understood about the same times, since it is spoken of as present" THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT PAUL WROTE 2 THESSALONIANS TO DEBUNK
     
  4. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    +1,601
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Private
    Luke is not the only book in the bible. The zealots were revolting against the Romans. The zealots were not building the tower of Babel, lead by Nimrod. That rebellion is scheduled for the end times.
    ^_^^_^^_^^_^....coming from you.

    Inter, the abomination of desolation that Jesus spoke of is in Matthew 24. That's what I was referring to. But you are in Luke. The topic is on Matthew 24.

    okay, put Israel over there central to the distant future which we are in, and the Jews coming to Jesus, and you will be on the right track.
     
  5. Interplanner

    Interplanner Newbie

    +96
    Non-Denom
    Single
    There is no difference between the gospel accounts.

    There are no NT passages on the distant future that have anything Judaic going on.

    I don't get your criticism of Luke. He has the highest vocab. He makes the most references to zealot activity. He says the most about the Galileans. He is the transcriber of Paul's thoughts. Lk 21 and the Thess material say the same thing about the judgement that has taken place.
     
  6. Interplanner

    Interplanner Newbie

    +96
    Non-Denom
    Single
    Mithr:
    the only thing Paul was debunking was that the 2nd coming had already happened. The letter is in the 40s. There is some strange rumor floating around, but he said the events at the temple had to happen first, and they did, in the 60s. before the 2nd coming. That's the same thing that Mt 24A says. The 2nd coming had to be after all that.
     
  7. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    +1,601
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Private

    And the zealots are not mentioned in Matthew 24 - which the abomination of desolation is. :idea: The abomination of desolation is not mentioned in
    Luke 21. :idea:
     
  8. Interplanner

    Interplanner Newbie

    +96
    Non-Denom
    Single
    You're straining. The conditions and situations mentioned were due to them. The Sabbath police, the 'messiah's, the bands of followers in the desert or taking over the temple. You're straining to separate the materials. They don't. They also don't separate from Mt 10.

    The thing about Luke is that once you follow the Galilean theme, you realize that Jesus risked a lot by settling in their; he put himself in the mainsteam of zealot thinking and risked his own name by people who associated him with 'them.' The complaint from various passages about jesus being a Galilean is not that they were hick or lower class or just from the country not from Jerusalem; it was that they were trying to foment unrest and revolution. They had to get help from the countryside because Herodians and the temple staff were seen as shills for Rome and precious about their temple and how long it took to build.

    Would you like a standard bibliographic materials list?
     
  9. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    +1,601
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Private
     
  10. Bro in Christ

    Bro in Christ Newbie

    857
    +28
    Baptist
    Married
    yet we are to do 2 cor 5:7 but you are stating that your a Jew which is very dangerous rev 2:9, rev 3:9 .....

    Matt 24:21 has not happen at 70 ad or 4th century or the 13th when half the population of the world died from Black death or WWII .... it will be much worst
     
  11. Interplanner

    Interplanner Newbie

    +96
    Non-Denom
    Single
    Mt24A is about 1st century Judea. Part of this we know from its parallels to Mt 10, which are about their times, which no one here at CF talks about.

    part of this we know because 'gaia' can be translated 'land' not the whole earth as such

    part of this we know from the directness, practicality, urgency and vitality of the warnings: those people listening (the whole group of believers is implied) were being warned of things they needed to do to stay safe, and signals they would see.

    part of this we know because the desolation of the city was just announced in ch23. It is in each chapter since he arrived in the city for the final time. The act that desolates is expressed in sharp clarity.
     
  12. interpreter

    interpreter Senior Member

    +129
    Anglican
    Verse 21 may refer to the great persecution of the Church in the early 4th century (which ended in 312 AD when the sign of the Son of Man appeared, and Constantine, the first Christian conqueror, came into power).
     
  13. Interplanner

    Interplanner Newbie

    +96
    Non-Denom
    Single
    ...unless you believe that was a huge failure
     
  14. Bro in Christ

    Bro in Christ Newbie

    857
    +28
    Baptist
    Married
    did you read
    matt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

    notice the historical facts that at 400 ad .... nothing really happened with connecting with matt 24:31 ... nothing
     
  15. StephanieSomer

    StephanieSomer Regular Member

    +492
    Christian
    Single
    John declares in the book of Revelation that he was on Patmos when the vision which brought the message he writes was given. He was condemned to Patmos by Domitian. Domitian reigned from 81 - 96, well after the Temple destruction.
     
  16. interpreter

    interpreter Senior Member

    +129
    Anglican
    Verse 31 was fulfilled in 325 AD when St. Constantine sent his messengers with a trumpet and gathered the elect of all the Church together, to Nicea.
     
  17. Dunbar

    Dunbar Newbie

    453
    +3
    Baptist
    True, Preterists have to have a pre-70AD time stamp on the authorship of Revelation for their false ideas to be even plausible.

    So many reject the 2nd coming outright and are not even shy about it.
     
  18. Dunbar

    Dunbar Newbie

    453
    +3
    Baptist
    The olivet discourse ends with the 2nd coming so the generation that is being referenced is the last generation or the one that will be alive just before the 2nd coming. Jesus often employed confusing language. He said to pluck out our eyes or cut off our hands when we sin - NOT TO BE TAKEN LITERALLY!!!

    Jerusalem of 70AD and it's demise will be very similar to the demise of Babylon (aka Jerusalem) and the 3rd temple. God's word is truth for every generation but especially for the last generation because they will live thru a great tribulation that will never be equaled.
     
  19. Interplanner

    Interplanner Newbie

    +96
    Non-Denom
    Single
    the problem is there are other passages about the DofJ that are to be seen in that generation, the most poignant being Lk 23 about asking the mountains to fall on us, and the green v dry tree.

    The situation is very simple. He did say everything (the DofJ and the 2nd coming) would happen in that generation, but also allowed for the 2nd coming (only) to be delayed. Paul had every expectation it was right after the DofJ. 2 Pet 3 repeats the allowance that it would be delayed. It is, after all, up to the father. But if the material is about the 1st century Judean situation, it was fulfilled in that generation. It is the universal day of judgement that is delayed.

    NT eschatology is either near-future Judean OR distant-future and global. It does not mix these. it can't, now that we are at a huge distance.
     
  20. riverrat

    riverrat Newbie

    +37
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Mt 24:1-2 was fulfilled in 70 AD. Verse 3 begins reference to the tribulation which is future.
     
Loading...