Matt 1:21 He Shall save His People

[Brightfame52]

You still talk like those Jesus was sent for are the same that were saved. That is not the case! Jesus was initially sent to the Jews, to the save them from their sins, i.e. whoever among them who would receive him. But even Jesus was initially sent as a savior to the Jews, he would help and save other people as well, like the example of the Canaanite woman, since God is not a respecter of persons.

No matter how you slice it, your understanding necessitates that Salvation from sin as Per Matt 1:21 is based upon ethnicity, that's a denial of Salvation by Grace. His People in Matt 1:21 is the Church, the Body of Christ, there is no racial consideration for Salvation

 

[zoidar]

No matter how you slice it, your understanding necessitates that Salvation from sin as Per Matt 1:21 is based upon ethnicity, that's a denial of Salvation by Grace. His People in Matt 1:21 is the Church, the Body of Christ, there is no racial consideration for Salvation

Are you aware of the Old Covenant? God chose a people for himself, the Israelites and they were circumcised into His people without necessarily having the right faith. It was based on ethnicity. How do you get around that? Are you saying everyone in Old Testament had the same chance as the Israelites to be saved? If not, then you have a racial consideration for salvation from your own argument.

It sounds to me you are saying God is unfair choosing to send Jesus to the Jews first. Then you might also say God was unfair and a respecter of person by letting Jesus start his ministry first in Israel. God could have chosen to start His ministry anywhere, but chose Israel. Choosing to bring the gospel to the Jews first is neither unfair and neither a "respecter of person" (not from a Biblical standpoint). You seem to be arguing against God's choice of order how to bring salvation to the world.

Also, how do you explain Jesus saying he was only sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, if the Canaanite woman was part of His people?

Jesus went away from there, and withdrew into the district of Tyre and Sidon. And a Canaanite woman from that region came out and began to cry out, saying, “Have mercy on me, Lord, Son of David; my daughter is cruelly demon-possessed.” But He did not answer her a word. And His disciples came and implored Him, saying, “Send her away, because she keeps shouting at us.” But He answered and said, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” But she came and began to bow down before Him, saying, “Lord, help me!” And He answered and said, “It is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs.” But she said, “Yes, Lord; but even the dogs feed on the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table.” Then Jesus said to her, “O woman, your faith is great; it shall be done for you as you wish.” And her daughter was healed at once.
— Matthew 15:21-28

 

[Brightfame52]

Are you aware of the Old Covenant? God chose a people for himself, the Israelites and they were circumcised into His people without necessarily having the right faith. It was based on ethnicity. How do you get around that? Are you saying everyone in Old Testament had the same chance as the Israelites to be saved? If not, then you have a racial consideration for salvation from your own argument.

It sounds to me you are saying God is unfair choosing to send Jesus to the Jews first. Then you might also say God was unfair and a respecter of person by letting Jesus start his ministry first in Israel. God could have chosen to start His ministry anywhere, but chose Israel. Choosing to bring the gospel to the Jews first is neither unfair and neither a "respecter of person" (not from a Biblical standpoint). You seem to be arguing against God's choice of order how to bring salvation to the world.

Also, how do you explain Jesus saying he was only sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, if the Canaanite woman was part of His people?

Jesus went away from there, and withdrew into the district of Tyre and Sidon. And a Canaanite woman from that region came out and began to cry out, saying, “Have mercy on me, Lord, Son of David; my daughter is cruelly demon-possessed.” But He did not answer her a word. And His disciples came and implored Him, saying, “Send her away, because she keeps shouting at us.” But He answered and said, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” But she came and began to bow down before Him, saying, “Lord, help me!” And He answered and said, “It is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs.” But she said, “Yes, Lord; but even the dogs feed on the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table.” Then Jesus said to her, “O woman, your faith is great; it shall be done for you as you wish.” And her daughter was healed at once.
— Matthew 15:21-28

No matter how you spin it, you are making ethnicity [the flesh] a condition for Salvation , its glorying in the flesh. Paul wrote Phil 3:4-5

4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:

5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

 

[zoidar]

No matter how you spin it, you are making ethnicity [the flesh] a condition for Salvation , its glorying in the flesh. Paul wrote Phil 3:4-5

4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:

5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

To make it clear. I would not and I do not make ethnicity a condition for salvatition. Where have you found that in my posts?

Even in the Old Covenant many non Israelites were saved.

 

[Brightfame52]

To make it clear. I would not and I do not make ethnicity a condition for salvatition. Where have you found that in my posts?

Even in the Old Covenant many non Israelites were saved.

Its an unavoidable conclusion by stating the His People in Matt 1:21 applies only to ethnic jews.

 

[zoidar]

Its an unavoidable conclusion by stating the His People in Matt 1:21 applies only to ethnic jews.

No! You still don't want to understand what I am saying. It's not that you have to agree, but at least you should try to understand the view I'm presenting.

 

[Brightfame52]

No! You still don't want to understand what I am saying. It's not that you have to agree, but at least you should try to understand the view I'm presenting.

Its unavoidable, you condition salvation on race, if you believe His People who is promised to be saved by Him from their sins Matt 1:21, pertains to only ethnic jews, that's trusting in the flesh and it makes God out to be a respecter of persons.

 

[zoidar]

Its unavoidable, you condition salvation on race, if you believe His People who is promised to be saved by Him from their sins Matt 1:21, pertains to only ethnic jews, that's trusting in the flesh and it makes God out to be a respecter of persons.

I don't understand your reasoning. Feel free to explain.

 

[Brightfame52]

Now just who are His People that Jesus shall save ?

Matt 1:21

And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Many are in error in regards to this most precious truth as it pertains to the Jesus of the scripture. They think His people here are ethnic jews, Abraham's physical descendants according to the flesh, but how absurd, that would put the promise to save based upon ethnicity, which would make God a respecter of persons, saving men upon their race, instead of Grace. Jesus told many ethnic jews they were not His Sheep/ People for instance, speaking to ethnic jews He says this Jn 10:26

But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

Earlier He told physical descendants of Abraham, jews, seed of Abraham Jn 8:33-37

33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?

34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.

36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.

Then He indicates that theyre not Gods Children Vs 42

42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

And that in another sense they were not Abraham's Seed or Children Jesus insinuates Vs 39-40
39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.

And not only that, it was the same ethnic jews Jesus indicated they were children of the devil, calling the devil their father Vs 44

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

So, they were not Jesus people He shall save from their sins. But they are #1. Those who God the Father had Chosen in Him before the foundation of the World Eph 1:3-4 which of course did include some ethnic jews, but also it included Gentiles !

 

[Brightfame52]

I don't understand your reasoning. Feel free to explain.

Thats the problem, I have been explaining since the OP and you dont understand, I cant help you understand, it appears to me you are under strong delusion to believe a lie. As long as you limit His People in Matt 1:21 to be ethnic jews, you are under the delusion, and will never understand unless God be pleased to undeceive you.

 

[zoidar]

Thats the problem, I have been explaining since the OP and you dont understand, I cant help you understand, it appears to me you are under strong delusion to believe a lie. As long as you limit His People in Matt 1:21 to be ethnic jews, you are under the delusion, and will never understand unless God be pleased to undeceive you.

Of course I understand your reasoning/view shown in this thread, it's just that I don't agree. That's not what I asked you to explain. I asked you to explain why you think my view means:

... trusting in the flesh and it makes God out to be a respecter of persons.

 

[Brightfame52]

The His People that Jesus shall save from their sins are His Body the Church, every member thereof, whether jew or Gentile, for its written Eph 5:25-27

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

This passage describes how Jesus saves His People from their sins, the work is Perfect !

 

[Brightfame52]

Of course I understand your reasoning/view shown in this thread, it's just that I don't agree. That's not what I asked you to explain. I asked you to explain why you think my view means:

Ive explained that. As long as you believe the His People in Matt 1:21 is restricted to ethnic jews, you are basing salvation from sin on ethnicity, and you are saying that God has promised to save His People from sin premised on ethnicity. In essence you are denying salvation by grace.

 

[zoidar]

Ive explained that. As long as you believe the His People in Matt 1:21 is restricted to ethnic jews, you are basing salvation from sin on ethnicity, and you are saying that God has promised to save His People from sin premised on ethnicity. In essence you are denying salvation by grace.

I still don't understand why that would be denying salvation by grace. Salvation is and always has been available to everyone, everywhere, whoever believes, Jew or Gentile, man or woman, even Jesus ministry started with the Jews.

I'm sure you agree Jesus was initially sent to the Jews?

It's hidden in Matt 1:21 that Jesus will not only save His people from their sins, but also the Gentiles from their sins. It was not fully revealed at the time the angel delivered the message to Joseph.

 

[Brightfame52]

I still don't understand why that would be denying salvation by grace. Salvation is and always has been available to everyone, everywhere, whoever believes, Jew or Gentile, man or woman, even Jesus ministry started with the Jews.

I'm sure you agree Jesus was initially sent to the Jews?

It's hidden in Matt 1:21 that Jesus will not only save His people from their sins, but also the Gentiles from their sins. It was not fully revealed at the time the angel delivered the message to Joseph.

You are basing the promise of salvation for His People on ethnicity, thats the flesh.

 

[zoidar]

You are basing the promise of salvation for His People on ethnicity, thats the flesh.

Historical fact is that Jesus and his apostles spread the promise of salvation (the gospel) first to the Jews. You can call it whatever you like. The promise is still based on faith. God bless!

 

[Brightfame52]

Christ People are those He redeemed with His Blood Isa 43:1

But now thus saith the Lord that created thee, O Jacob, and he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name; thou art mine

 

[Brightfame52]

Historical fact is that Jesus and his apostles spread the promise of salvation (the gospel) first to the Jews. You can call it whatever you like. The promise is still based on faith. God bless!

It doesnt matter how you spin it, by you restricting " His People" to be solely ethnic jews in Matt 1:21, you base salvation on ethnicity, the flesh. And the promise given in Matt 1:21 isnt based on Faith, its based on Gods Promise, Power and Grace to do what is Promised.

 

[zoidar]

It doesnt matter how you spin it, by you restricting " His People" to be solely ethnic jews in Matt 1:21, you base salvation on ethnicity, the flesh. And the promise given in Matt 1:21 isnt based on Faith, its based on Gods Promise, Power and Grace to do what is Promised.

She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.” Now all this took place to fulfill what was spoken by the Lord through the prophet: “Behold, the virgin shall be with child and shall bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which translated means, “God with us.”
— Matthew 1:21-23

This is a prophecy of Jesus, the Messiah that was to come. He shall be called Jesus "The Lord is salvation", since he will save His people from their sins. That is the prophecy: the Messiah has come with salvation to His people, the Jews. Matt 1:21 does not mention "power" or "grace", and as you correctly say, neither does it mention "faith". However from the NT we see how this promise would be fulfilled and that was through faith in the Messiah.

You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews.
— John 4:22

 

[Brightfame52]

She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.” Now all this took place to fulfill what was spoken by the Lord through the prophet: “Behold, the virgin shall be with child and shall bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which translated means, “God with us.”
— Matthew 1:21-23

This is a prophecy of Jesus, the Messiah that was to come. He shall be called Jesus "The Lord is salvation", since he will save His people from their sins. That is the prophecy: the Messiah has come with salvation to His people, the Jews. Matt 1:21 does not mention "power" or "grace", and as you correctly say, neither does it mention "faith". However from the NT we see how this promise would be fulfilled and that was through faith in the Messiah.

You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews.
— John 4:22

You still trusting in the flesh for salvation, dung salvation. His People in Matt 1:21 is the Church, the Body of Christ who He is the Head of, they are all One.