Masks can help you stop the virus

Sophrosyne · Jul 11, 2020

loveofourlord said:
Okay thats a bit better :> but still doesn't deal with the reality of it NOW, hospital capacity is currently breaking, not a possible, but is. It's not just hospital rooms, there arn't enough doctors and supplies and such to cope with all the patients. Even if the state 100% locked down under penalty of death, it's too late as there is a lag. This is what, "Open the economy." has done, 71k people tested positive, and since many states are having testing shortages, that is likly many people with serious conditions as I would hope their testing get bumped up over those that just drove into a popup testing facility.

Again your also ignoring the elephant in the room, it's not just deaths, deaths are at 1%, but some studies are showing 1 in 10 asymptomatic YOUNG people have long lasting damage to their lungs and such. Are you willing to sacrifice the health of everyone, how many of these will die younger because of complications.

We also don't know if herd immunity is even possible without a vaccine so banking everything on that is needless suffering and death for little to no gain. And when these places shutdown due to virus not even the economy will be saved.

The reason for all of this is stupid people, the experts instead of greatly increasing hospital capacity shut them down to operations and doctors and nurses had no patients and were laid off and now they have shortages of people that should never have been without work to begin with. They could have ramped up staff in advance of this instead of laying them off and increased capacity a lot instead of just reloading supplies of PPE and masks and think that there wouldn't be a spike at all with tons of young adults and no school or college or anything for them to do there will be mischief to end the boredom.

loveofourlord · Jul 11, 2020

Sophrosyne said:
The reason for all of this is stupid people, the experts instead of greatly increasing hospital capacity shut them down to operations and doctors and nurses had no patients and were laid off and now they have shortages of people that should never have been without work to begin with. They could have ramped up staff in advance of this instead of laying them off and increased capacity a lot instead of just reloading supplies of PPE and masks and think that there wouldn't be a spike at all with tons of young adults and no school or college or anything for them to do there will be mischief to end the boredom.

schools would be a deadly spike in cases. No it was the idiots demanding resteraunts, bars, gyms and other places open up as predicted.

Archivist · Jul 11, 2020

Sophrosyne said:
good reason? If I am infectable I would rather get it, and get over it and no longer need to concern myself with it.

So you don’t care about the people you might pass it onto?

Sophrosyne · Jul 11, 2020

loveofourlord said:
Okay thats a bit better :> but still doesn't deal with the reality of it NOW, hospital capacity is currently breaking, not a possible, but is. It's not just hospital rooms, there arn't enough doctors and supplies and such to cope with all the patients. Even if the state 100% locked down under penalty of death, it's too late as there is a lag. This is what, "Open the economy." has done, 71k people tested positive, and since many states are having testing shortages, that is likly many people with serious conditions as I would hope their testing get bumped up over those that just drove into a popup testing facility.

Again your also ignoring the elephant in the room, it's not just deaths, deaths are at 1%, but some studies are showing 1 in 10 asymptomatic YOUNG people have long lasting damage to their lungs and such. Are you willing to sacrifice the health of everyone, how many of these will die younger because of complications.

We also don't know if herd immunity is even possible without a vaccine so banking everything on that is needless suffering and death for little to no gain. And when these places shutdown due to virus not even the economy will be saved.

The problem is... the young WILL get infected regardless of even the best masking and distancing practices. You aren't going to help them by slowing the virus to a crawl as if there is no one getting sick with complications there is no subjects for research to find out the most effective treatment for them. Essentially with no "victims" there is no experimentation.... and no way to find a cure for it. Essentially you want to put the cart before the horse and protect people with complications before they get them and stop their infection which I've pretty much said is not possible to do. Also I think it may be too early to tell about how long the complications of this virus last too.
Protecting people from harm by essentially putting them in "statis" and the rest of society is not a good solution.
People are born and they die and at times we cannot stop time to save someone and trading 20 years of 100 peoples lives to save one life may not be a good trade at all. This is why they are trying to reopen things as they can. This virus isn't a "feel good" virus that can be managed with "correctness" we are in a war and there will be casualties and people have and are making decisions not based upon individual lives lost but rather statistics.
I am not thrilled about the idea of how many people will die to get this virus out of the way but the way I see things going I don't have hope that any "magic bullet" like masks is going to do anything much.

Sophrosyne · Jul 11, 2020

loveofourlord said:
schools would be a deadly spike in cases. No it was the idiots demanding resteraunts, bars, gyms and other places open up as predicted.

We don't know that for sure yet. and from what I've heard around here they are more blaming people of having private parties and such for a lot of this outbreak. I think personally some of it is related to the riots we had for weeks on end in the city here we were doing pretty well statistically till a few weeks after they were going on and most of the people now being infected are younger people who would have been in the riots and protests.

Sophrosyne · Jul 11, 2020

Archivist said:
So you don’t care about the people you might pass it onto?

That presumes that I do pass it on to people. Do you care about all the people you infected throughout your life with common colds, the flu, viruses, etc when you weren't masking and distancing?

A_Thinker · Jul 11, 2020

Sophrosyne said:
I'm not in charge of this mess the only thing I can think of it herd immunity.

Herd immunity would require at least 75% of Americans to be exposed. We're now at 1% ... with 130,000 dead.

Only 74% more to go ...

A_Thinker · Jul 11, 2020

Sophrosyne said:
That presumes that I do pass it on to people. Do you care about all the people you infected throughout your life with common colds, the flu, viruses, etc when you weren't masking and distancing?

These weren't a possible death sentence ...

Archivist · Jul 11, 2020

Sophrosyne said:
That presumes that I do pass it on to people. Do you care about all the people you infected throughout your life with common colds, the flu, viruses, etc when you weren't masking and distancing?

We know that this virus can be a killer. I’ve never heard of anyone dying from the common cold. I get my flu shots yearly and so far as I know have never had it. I’ve never had measles but likewise get the shot for that. You are comparing apples and oranges if you are seriously trying to compare this virus to the common cold.

loveofourlord · Jul 11, 2020

Sophrosyne said:
That presumes that I do pass it on to people. Do you care about all the people you infected throughout your life with common colds, the flu, viruses, etc when you weren't masking and distancing?

I get a vaccine and stay home when sick,

BABerean2 · Jul 11, 2020

loveofourlord said:
well whats going to be worse, recesi9on and 3 million people dead or helping everyone?

Where did the number 3 million come from?

The 1918 Spanish Flu killed at least 10% of those infected, but healthy people were not put in quarantine.

We were originally told COVID-19 would kill between 3-4%, based on the flawed model from a man in the UK, who has now been discredited?

Based on the current numbers, COVID-19 will kill about the same number of people as a bad year of the seasonal Flu.

Tuberculosis killed many more people on the planet last year, than what COVID-19 is projected to kill this year.

.

loveofourlord · Jul 11, 2020

Sophrosyne said:
The problem is... the young WILL get infected regardless of even the best masking and distancing practices. You aren't going to help them by slowing the virus to a crawl as if there is no one getting sick with complications there is no subjects for research to find out the most effective treatment for them. Essentially with no "victims" there is no experimentation.... and no way to find a cure for it. Essentially you want to put the cart before the horse and protect people with complications before they get them and stop their infection which I've pretty much said is not possible to do. Also I think it may be too early to tell about how long the complications of this virus last too.
Protecting people from harm by essentially putting them in "statis" and the rest of society is not a good solution.
People are born and they die and at times we cannot stop time to save someone and trading 20 years of 100 peoples lives to save one life may not be a good trade at all. This is why they are trying to reopen things as they can. This virus isn't a "feel good" virus that can be managed with "correctness" we are in a war and there will be casualties and people have and are making decisions not based upon individual lives lost but rather statistics.
I am not thrilled about the idea of how many people will die to get this virus out of the way but the way I see things going I don't have hope that any "magic bullet" like masks is going to do anything much.

you are advocating using childrens deaths to save other people's lives, thats disgusting and sick.

loveofourlord · Jul 11, 2020

BABerean2 said:
Where did the number 3 million come from?

The 1918 Spanish Flu killed at least 10% of those infected, but healthy people were not put in quarantine.

We were originally told COVID-19 would kill between 3-4%, based on the flawed model from a man in the UK, who has now been discredited?

Based on the current numbers, COVID-19 will kill about the same number of people as a bad year of the seasonal Flu.

Tuberculosis killed many more people on the planet last year, than what COVID-19 is projected to kill this year.

.

that was using his 2% dying figure.

BABerean2 · Jul 11, 2020

loveofourlord said:
that was using his 2% dying figure.

Which was very wrong.

TB is much more deadly.

.

Sophrosyne · Jul 11, 2020

A_Thinker said:
Herd immunity would require at least 75% of Americans to be exposed. We're now at 1% ... with 130,000 dead.

Only 74% more to go ...

I don't think anyone reasonably knows the true number needed it probably varies widely by culture and population density. I'm guessing that in some instances 50%-60% could be good enough as often the virus gets contained in a community and is halted through tracing and it takes someone outside of it to reintroduce it. As it is now there is way too many targets to get a handle on it. Last I heard we could be around 15% now that they estimate (untested) have been infected but not reported (minor to no symptoms). I think that it could be between 18-25% in some larger areas of population or more.

Archivist · Jul 11, 2020

BABerean2 said:
Which was very wrong.

TB is much more deadly.

.

But TB is both preventable and treatable. Treatment is improving for coronavirus, but it is a new virus and we are still learning.

Sophrosyne · Jul 11, 2020

loveofourlord said:
you are advocating using childrens deaths to save other people's lives, thats disgusting and sick.

No, I'm telling the truth, kids will get the virus and some people will have issues with their immune systems overreacting and only through research of trying to treat people with those issues will they be able to best learn to treat people. It is like trying to cure cancer before people identify and understand it... you cannot do it.
I've heard of the immune issues on older adults too that their immune systems overreact and they have made a lot of headway to that but I think that there is not a "common" reaction or solution that works for every one that has these type of issues. The only reason they have gotten a lot better treating people with Covid 19 is because they have people TO treat that HAVE IT. Kids will have issues that differ from adults in that they may or may not be able to withstand some therapies adults that have had it do so other treatments may have to be tried.
The first kids that have these issues may suffer the most there may be no getting around it.. period. The ones that come after that will benefit from the experience of those involved in treatment and those who come even later will benefit even more. You could consider it any way you want but it has nothing to do with feelings and sympathy "feeling" and being correct etc won't change the truth and that is those who get it and are unlucky that suffer will suffer. Masking may prevent the kid from getting the virus from you, but not prevent it from another 10-20 other chances that occur so unless we quarantine all kids completely they will probably get it. When I was growing up most of us kids got chicken pox and the mumps it was pretty much a given once it started going around the chances of a kid getting it was so high that parents instead of trying to keep their kids from it went ahead and purposely had them exposed to it so as to not have to bother with it unexpectedly. I don't say we should purposely give anyone this virus, what I am saying is that this is probably a lot more easier to get that it is less about getting it or not for people who are susceptible but rather.... when.

BABerean2 · Jul 11, 2020

Archivist said:
But TB is both preventable and treatable. Treatment is improving for coronavirus, but it is a new virus and we are still learning.

Corona virus is not a new virus. Many of the common cold viruses are Corona viruses. These RNA viruses often mutate rapidly.

COVID-19 is a new strain of the Corona virus.

COVID-19 appears to have been accidentally released from the Wuhan lab.

The NIH actually funded some of the viral research at the Wuhan lab. That research is known as "Gain-of-Function" research. This type of research attempts to make the virus more infectious.

In other words, we may have helped create the virus that has been accidentally released on the population.
.

Sophrosyne · Jul 11, 2020

Anyway I've said enough to dispel the OP's notion that by wearing masks we can "stop" this virus.
The experts in charge themselves realize this is not stoppable at all without costs that are insurmountable and crippling to this country far beyond the lives lost to it. Masking was from the start a bandaid on a major artery called Covid 19 we can only slow the "bleeding" as the "surgeons" in charge are way over their head at this time and the amount of crappy masks and similar quality science behind the so called studies around this virus only have us with more questions than answers. I personally thing that the cure for this virus may be more painful than too many of those in charge are able to bear because there is way too many people for a very infectious virus to resist with masks like flypaper trying to stop a crocodile.

Archivist · Jul 11, 2020

BABerean2 said:
Corona virus is not a new virus. Many of the common cold viruses are Corona viruses. These RNA viruses often mutate rapidly.

COVID-19 is a new strain of the Corona virus.

COVID-19 appears to have been accidentally released from the Wuhan lab.

The NIH actually funded some of the viral research at the Wuhan lab. That research is known as "Gain-of-Function" research. This type of research attempts to make the virus more infectious.

In other words, we may have helped create the virus that has been accidentally released on the population.
.

Yes and COVID 19 is what we are discussing here. So sorry that I wasn’t more precise but I presumed that people would understand my reference. In any event, TB is both preventable and curable.

Masks can help you stop the virus

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