Mary

[Aldebaran]

Why INTERCESSORY PRAYER?

ARSENIOS

He commanded us to pray for one another. That's all I know about that. Why did he say to do this? Maybe it helps us stay in unity with each other instead of isolating ourselves. However, when we pray we are told to pray to God the Father. Jesus is the One mediator between us and the Father: 1 Timothy 2:5--"For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus" Why anyone sees fit to add Mary to this is beyond me, but it seems to be more about semantics based on how we see things on the earthly level.

When man fell into sin under Adam, our fellowship with God was broken. Jesus came to build a bridge between us and God again. He Himself is that bridge. He is that ONE mediator between God and ourselves.

 

[Philip_B]

[VERSE=John 2:5,NRSV]His mother said to the servants, ‘Do whatever he tells you.’[/VERSE]

Mary always points us to Jesus. She responds to God, she brings Jesus into the world, she weeps as her Son dies. Far too much of this thread has spoken of Mary as if she was a dead Roman Catholic rather than the living Mother of the living Lord.

 

[shioks]

I'm not sure how you guys feel but after reading all the postings of praying to or through Mary seems a lot like Asian Taoism/pagan beliefs of praying to/through the dead ancestors. That's how I can relate the whole thing.

 

[ChristianFromKazakhstan]

When Jesus was asked, how should we pray, He said, "Our Father, who art in heaven".

This is who we ought to pray to.

GOD only. Not human beings. Otherwise it's idolatry.

 

[Aldebaran]

I'm not sure how you guys feel but after reading all the postings of praying to or through Mary seems a lot like Asian Taoism/pagan beliefs of praying to/through the dead ancestors. That's how I can relate the whole thing.

I agree. But it surprises me how even showing them what God's Word says to us about such things, and what Jesus Himself said, and what the apostles and other biblical writers said, there will continue to be those who will cling to this type of practice--and will even try to use the bible to justify it.

 

[ChristianFromKazakhstan]

I'm not sure how you guys feel but after reading all the postings of praying to or through Mary seems a lot like Asian Taoism/pagan beliefs of praying to/through the dead ancestors. That's how I can relate the whole thing.

Exactly!

Coming from Asia myself, I know all about praying to the dead.

But with the Mary idolatrous worship, it goes even deeper. It's tied to the pagan cult of mother goddess.

 

[Arsenios]

He commanded us to pray for one another. That's all I know about that. Why did he say to do this? Maybe it helps us stay in unity with each other instead of isolating ourselves. However, when we pray we are told to pray to God the Father. Jesus is the One mediator between us and the Father: 1 Timothy 2:5--"For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus" Why anyone sees fit to add Mary to this is beyond me, but it seems to be more about semantics based on how we see things on the earthly level.

When man fell into sin under Adam, our fellowship with God was broken. Jesus came to build a bridge between us and God again. He Himself is that bridge. He is that ONE mediator between God and ourselves.

Look -Christ Himself established the ekonomia of His Salvation for man on earth. He established His Body upon the earth, His Apostolic Church which wrote and preserved and gave us the Bible... Salvation is union with God in this life... It is attained through Baptism into Christ, into His Death on the Cross, "...for Lo through the Cross is Joy come to all mankind..." And Paul writes: "I preach Christ, and Him Crucified..." [my paraphrase]... So we begin repenting from our sins, we get Baptized into Christ, take up our own cross, and follow Christ as baptized members of His Body, the Church... This has been going on since Apostolic times, for 2000 years...

And EVERY Apostolic Church for the last 2000 years prays to the Blessed Virgin for intercession to Her Son Who is the SOLE intermediary to God... And we are commanded to do all things by prayer and intercession, one for another, for the prayer of a righteous man availeth much...

The very Church that was the sole Body that gave us the Bible is not divided on the issue of the venertion of the Blessed Virgin... The rest of the Church separates from the Latin Church on other Latin dogmas concerning Her, but not on venerating Her and supplicating Her in our behalf... She is not a Goddess - She is the Mother of our Lord in the flesh...

Nor is She the only one to show an empty tomb after her burial... St. John the Theologian and Evangellist did the same - He is the one who stood at the foot of the Cross with the Blessed Virgin - A very young man - a boy in appearance - unrecognized by the enemies of Christ - and when he was to die, he had his followers dig his grave in the form of a cross, and he laid down in it, and had them bury him alive... When they later opened that grave, his body was not found...

Not a dogmatic teaching, but well within the teaching of the Holy Tradition of Christ's Church for two thousand years... We live the fulness of the Faith of Christ... Our use of the Bible is for worship... It is not for the sake of arguing... This is a strange forum where the Bible becomes a weapon of proving anyone wrong - The Scholastic camel swallowed by the Reformation as it strained the gnat of indulgences and other Latin miscues...

Arsenios

 

[ChristianFromKazakhstan]

Look -Christ Himself established the ekonomia of His Salvation for man on earth. He established His Body upon the earth, His Apostolic Church which wrote and preserved and gave us the Bible... Salvation is union with God in this life... It is attained through Baptism into Christ, into His Death on the Cross, "...for Lo through the Cross is Joy come to all mankind..." And Paul writes: "I preach Christ, and Him Crucified..." [my paraphrase]... So we begin repenting from our sins, we get Baptized into Christ, take up our own cross, and follow Christ as baptized members of His Body, the Church... This has been going on since Apostolic times, for 2000 years...

And EVERY Apostolic Church for the last 2000 years prays to the Blessed Virgin for intercession to Her Son Who is the SOLE intermediary to God... And we are commanded to do all things by prayer and intercession, one for another, for the prayer of a righteous man availeth much...

The very Church that was the sole Body that gave us the Bible is not divided on the issue of the venertion of the Blessed Virgin... The rest of the Church separates from the Latin Church on other Latin dogmas concerning Her, but not on venerating Her and supplicating Her in our behalf... She is not a Goddess - She is the Mother of our Lord in the flesh...

Nor is She the only one to show an empty tomb after her burial... St. John the Theologian and Evangellist did the same - He is the one who stood at the foot of the Cross with the Blessed Virgin - A very young man - a boy in appearance - unrecognized by the enemies of Christ - and when he was to die, he had his followers dig his grave in the form of a cross, and he laid down in it, and had them bury him alive... When they later opened that grave, his body was not found...

Not a dogmatic teaching, but well within the teaching of the Holy Tradition of Christ's Church for two thousand years... We live the fulness of the Faith of Christ... Our use of the Bible is for worship... It is not for the sake of arguing... This is a strange forum where the Bible becomes a weapon of proving anyone wrong - The Scholastic camel swallowed by the Reformation as it strained the gnat of indulgences and other Latin miscues...

Arsenios

My Kazakh ancestors pray to the spirits of their deceased relatives for much, much longer time. It doesn't make the practice true.

Prayer ONLY to GOD is allowed. Anything else is idolatry.

Orthodoxy and Catholicism are the result of amalgamation of Christianity with paganism under Constantine.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

I dont get why Mary is prayed to.

Either do I and I have never read in the Bible to pray to Mary.
Stick to the Bible God's Word.
M-Bob

 

[Arsenios]

My Kazakh ancestors pray to the spirits of their deceased relatives for much, much longer time. It doesn't make the practice true.

Prayers to uncle Clem and Auntie Esmiralda are not encouraged in the Orthodox Faith - They are, in fact, confessable sins, and invite demonic incursions...

Prayer ONLY to GOD is allowed. Anything else is idolatry.

We ask for intercession in our behalf...

2Co 9:14-15
And by their prayer for you,
which long after you for the exceeding Grace of God in you.
Thanks be unto God for His unspeakable gift.

Col_1:27
To whom God would make known
what is the riches of the Glory of this Mystery among the Gentiles;
Which is Christ in you, the Hope of Glory:

Christ is IN His Holy Ones...
Prayers to His Holy Ones are indeed prayers to Him...
Prayers to mom and pop are [normally] not...

God is manifest in His Saints...

Making friends with them is a good thing...

Orthodoxy and Catholicism are the result of amalgamation of Christianity with paganism under Constantine.

Are you a Jack Chick Protestant?

Christ did not fail to establish His Body on earth...

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

Either do I and I have never read in the Bible to pray to Mary.
Stick to the Bible God's Word.
M-Bob

God is in His Holy Ones...
Col 1:27
The Glory of this Mystery... which is Christ in you...

Arsenios

 

[PeaceB]

Are you a Jack Chick Protestant?

Christ did not fail to establish His Body on earth...

Didn't you know that in 1609 John Smyth founded the true church in England?

 

[ChristianFromKazakhstan]

And yet somehow you would not even know what the Bible was were it not for their councils.

Not their, but councils that included the proto-Orthodox. Catholics came to the scene quite later. At the time of the proto-Orthodox, there was still much purity. The leaven of Constantine worked slowly but surely. Over the ages, all kinds of pagan beliefs found their way into Orthodoxy, and were inherited by the Catholics who are an offshoot of Orthodoxy.

Besides, the Canon wasn't invented, it was a defacto situation of a body of texts widely accepted at church prior to any councils.

Nothing at all in tge Bible to uphold the authority of modern-day Orthodox or Catholic churches full of paganistic practices.

 

[ChristianFromKazakhstan]

Prayers to uncle Clem and Auntie Esmiralda are not encouraged in the Orthodox Faith - They are, in fact, confessable sins, and invite demonic incursions...



We ask for intercession in our behalf...

2Co 9:14-15
And by their prayer for you,
which long after you for the exceeding Grace of God in you.
Thanks be unto God for His unspeakable gift.

Col_1:27
To whom God would make known
what is the riches of the Glory of this Mystery among the Gentiles;
Which is Christ in you, the Hope of Glory:

Christ is IN His Holy Ones...
Prayers to His Holy Ones are indeed prayers to Him...
Prayers to mom and pop are [normally] not...

God is manifest in His Saints...

Making friends with them is a good thing...



Are you a Jack Chick Protestant?

Christ did not fail to establish His Body on earth...

Arsenios

Doesn't make much sense. It's all just feeble attempts to justify grave sin of idolatry.

Only God. Only GOD.

No Mary. No saints. No gods or goddesses. No ancestors. It's pagan.

God. Period.

 

[Arsenios]

Nothing at all in tge Bible to uphold the authority of modern-day Orthodox or Catholic churches full of paganistic practices.

Jack Chick with Google?

A.

 

[W2L]

Jack Chick with Google?

A.

google is actually a good scripture searching tool.

 

[Arsenios]

Doesn't make much sense. It's all just feeble attempts to justify grave sin of idolatry.

Only God. Only GOD.

No Mary. No saints. No gods or goddesses. No ancestors. It's pagan.

God. Period.

Sigh...

A.

 

[Arsenios]

google is actually a good scripture searching tool.

Thank-you...

That was the point...

Arsenios

 

[Gabriel Anton]

Peace be with you.

I don't think most of you using the term, "Idolatry" really understand that word, to be honest with you.

True "Idolatry" is the worship of sin, the Devil, the Darkness and the actions and conduct that proceed from it.

If you go to a Jew who practises Judaism, he'll tell you Christians are idolators because you are giving worship to a false god, a man. The invisible God is all you need.

If you go to a self-inspired Christian claiming to be a disciple of Jesus with the authority of the Word of God and the inspiration of the Holy Spirit to speak, and you tell him that Mary can be a great help in his walk with Jesus Christ, he'll tell you that's idolatry because Jesus is all you need.

Do you see the pattern here?

But the strange thing is when you read the Gospels, you find this peculiar character called Jesus Christ talking to Jews, God's people, telling them to repent, telling them that they are of their father, the Devil because they did not like the Words that came out of His Mouth.

It is a dangerous thing to say, "I Worship God" because both Light and Darkness are contending to be God and both are invisible forces and entities.

If I were to treat Mary as an idol like a singer would treat one of his idol in which he would follow in his idol's footsteps, having Mary as an idol is actually very healthy spiritually if one understands what Mary is all about, not just the surface image of Mary but the depths of Mary.

To follow Mary:

You have to give birth to Jesus Christ.

You have to be prepared to suffer for your faith in God.

You have to be obedient to God.

You have to put God first.

You have to be chaste.

You experience the Wonders of God in your life.

You have to know Jesus deeply.

You have to suffer deeply with Jesus.

You have to be crucified with Christ and suffer with Him.

You have to be humble.

You have to undergo suffering from the lips of so-called "Worshippers of God."

You have to protect Jesus.

You have to nurture Jesus.

You have to look for Jesus when He goes missing.

You have to love Jesus deeply.

You have to be prepared to be ignored by Jesus when He is busy.

You have to feel guilty for losing Jesus.

You have to search for Jesus until you find Him.

You have to think about Jesus deeply.

You have to cherish Jesus.

You have to cry for Jesus.

You have to be sorrowful with Jesus.

You have to believe in Jesus.

You have to listen to Jesus.

You have to help others with Jesus.

You have to die with Jesus.

You have to believe in the Promises of Jesus.

You have to trust Jesus.


So, in truth having Mary as an idol is actually very healthy for the soul because She is the Property, Mother of the Incarnate Word. She is Most Trusted by God Most High.


I pity and feel really sorry for the person who goes to the grave having slighted Her Honour because I know what will happen to you. I'm so sorry for you.


This is just the opinion of a worm, maggot, dirt which hopefully is worth 2 cents to someone.


God bless you.

 

[Phil 1:21]

I dont get why Mary is prayed to. Dont get me wrong, im not here to bash Catholics, or to debate prayers. I just dont understand why we need Mary when we have the Holy Spirit, the Comforter, the Intercessor, the Teacher, the Lamp for our feet, and the Light of the world.

Because some people apparently believe the Bible is a book about Mary. I guess maybe they need a High Priestess or a Goddess to worship. Personally, I don't get it. The whole thing is a bit creepy to me.