Magnetic Bracelets

[Cearbhall]

And doctors dont?

They cure when they can.

 

[JacksBratt]

The experimental evidence contradicts you: Dogs and the Placebo Effect.

As they say here:

The proverbial bottom line is that an animal’s mental and emotional state has a profound influence upon its physical health. And, human contact has a positive impact on the well-being of animals of all age groups, and produces an array of physiologic, emotional and health effects.

This is all good, however, putting a magnetic collar on a dog? Really? That is not an example of human contact, it's an appliance. How is the dog going to know that this is to try to help his condition? How many new collars does a dog get in it's life? But, all of a sudden the dog realizes "this must be to make me feel better"? Still don't buy it.

I can understand, if they were not affectionate dog owners, they put on a collar and start showing increased care, petting, treats, contact, special treatments...... then, well maybe. However, they would probably have been doing this already as they had to give it so much special treatment eg: carrying it up and down stairs, prodding it to play, fetch, run or go for walks.

Do, in humans, magnetic therapy, placebo affect may have a large influence. In animals...... still Nah....

 

[Nithavela]

And doctors dont?

Actually, doctors cure people, yes. At least when possible.

 

[Nithavela]

As they say here:

The proverbial bottom line is that an animal’s mental and emotional state has a profound influence upon its physical health. And, human contact has a positive impact on the well-being of animals of all age groups, and produces an array of physiologic, emotional and health effects.

This is all good, however, putting a magnetic collar on a dog? Really? That is not an example of human contact, it's an appliance. How is the dog going to know that this is to try to help his condition? How many new collars does a dog get in it's life? But, all of a sudden the dog realizes "this must be to make me feel better"? Still don't buy it.

I can understand, if they were not affectionate dog owners, they put on a collar and start showing increased care, petting, treats, contact, special treatments...... then, well maybe. However, they would probably have been doing this already as they had to give it so much special treatment eg: carrying it up and down stairs, prodding it to play, fetch, run or go for walks.

Do, in humans, magnetic therapy, placebo affect may have a large influence. In animals...... still Nah....

Sounds like you just decide not to believe it.

 

[JacksBratt]

There are a number of possible explanations for your experience;

There are a number of explanations but whatever you do never ever ever state that the magnetic energy has any possibility of actually doing something......

But why is it so hard for people to believe in something like this? Why the solid denial or obstinate attitude to accept that it could have some merit?

Why are people so adamant that there is no way on earth that these are effective. What? Would the world end, hell freeze, if it were true.... WHY?

Are we so arrogant to believe that we know everything about magnetic flux, the north and south poles etc?
Are some here so intelligent or educated that a simple magnetic necklace fixing migraines insults them? Or, does this in some other way negate other beliefs they have?

 

[JacksBratt]

Thing is, the placebo effect rarely cures, it only hides the symptoms.

So, if placebo only hides the symptoms, why would this dog not, eventually revert back to the pain that kept him from all his renewed energy, running up and down stairs, acting like a puppy? If the symptoms are a manifestation of damaged joints and their components, then, in the case of canine arthritis, the dog should have been doing increased damage to his afflicted joints. He should have accelerated the damage to the joints and had a more rapid decline in joint integrity. Or, am I wrong here?

 

[JacksBratt]

Sounds like you just decide not to believe it.

Actually, it sounds like you are the one not believing in the possibility of magnets being beneficial to human health in several situations. Even though many humans swear by it.

You will believe that a dog can sense your care and motivation to make him feel better and thus the animal will feel better. However, you cannot fathom that putting a strong magnetic field around a part of a body will cause increase blood flow or some other condition that relives the pain.

I already said that there must be some placebo affect with them. However, this could be the case with almost any treatment from Tylenol to massage and acupuncture to alcohol, allergy meds to asthma treatment. We are human, we are fully aware that the treatment is supposed to help the condition and our minds just take over..... it's all a scam.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

...But why is it so hard for people to believe in something like this?
...Why are people so adamant that there is no way on earth that these are effective. What? Would the world end, hell freeze, if it were true.... WHY?

Because experiments designed to show whether magnets are responsible show that they are not. Whatever effects are reported are caused by something else because it makes no difference if the bracelet is magnetic or not.

Are we so arrogant to believe that we know everything about magnetic flux, the north and south poles etc?
Are some here so intelligent or educated that a simple magnetic necklace fixing migraines insults them? Or, does this in some other way negate other beliefs they have?

Not only do experiments show that it's not magnetic flux that causes the reported effects, physiology and biophysics give no support whatever for it; and yes, we do understand enough about magnetic fields and the body to know what kinds of fields & strengths do affect the body and what kinds don't. For example, MRI scanners have incredibly powerful magnetic fields (which is why you have to remove all metallic items), but have no noticeable effects on physiology. With a strong enough magnetic field you can even levitate a frog via it's weak diamagnetism; does it have any measurable effect on the frogs physiology? No.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

I already said that there must be some placebo affect with them. However, this could be the case with almost any treatment from Tylenol to massage and acupuncture to alcohol, allergy meds to asthma treatment. We are human, we are fully aware that the treatment is supposed to help the condition and our minds just take over..... it's all a scam.

It is true that placebo effects enhance the perceived efficacy of many medications, especially those for neurological and psychological ailments, but placebo effects are limited to what brain activity can affect via the nervous system or secreted hormones. So placebo effects can make you feel better about things, feel less pain, etc., but for ailments not involving brain-mediated effects, only the medication will directly act on the ailment.

For example, the placebo effect is strong for things like headaches, so although in blind tests people will rate paracetamol as more effective than a placebo, they will rate paracetamol in red packaging as more effective than the same dose in plain packaging, and rate the same dose as more effective if has a higher price (which explains why some people swear that expensive colourfully packaged proprietary painkillers like Neurofen are more effective than identical cheap generic formulations).

 

[Papias]

Hi there.

So what's up with these magnetic bracelets?

Are they efficacious?

As others have pointed out, there's no evidence that they work (aside from the placebo effect, which also renders condoms effective for arthritis, etc.).

Hey, do you know that they call an alternative medicine which works? (Page down.....)
















































... a "medicine".

 

[KitKatMatt]

Thing is, the placebo effect rarely cures, it only hides the symptoms.

I've always wondered how much harm treatments like this cause people, because they believe they are "cured" and don't seek medical attention.

I have family who believe they were healed by televangelists of their medically diagnosed heart trouble. It scared me when I heard them talk about it. No, they did not confirm the "cure" by going to the doctor and getting checked, they just "felt it happening".

That's not even getting into the dangers of using certain "cures" like this, such as amber teething necklaces that people use on babies and can be a choking hazard.

 

[MerlinJ]

They cure when they can.

They usually do both. Treat the immediate symptoms, and cure the underlying cause if possible.

I think there are serious ethical issues with doctors prescribing patients placebos, even hypochondriacs. Apparently it does happen, though I'm not sure under what circumstances they find it acceptable.

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0058247

The reason I dislike alternative medicine so much is because it preys on ignorance and desperation for profit.

 

[AV1611VET]

(Page down.....)

Actually you could have just made your answer a "spoiler."

The spoiler tags are: [ spoiler]medicine[/spoiler]

It comes out like this:

Hey, do you know that they call an alternative medicine which works?

Spoiler

a medicine

... a "medicine".[/QUOTE]

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

I've always wondered how much harm treatments like this cause people, because they believe they are "cured" and don't seek medical attention.

I have family who believe they were healed by televangelists of their medically diagnosed heart trouble. It scared me when I heard them talk about it. No, they did not confirm the "cure" by going to the doctor and getting checked, they just "felt it happening".

The unsympathetic would be tempted to see it as 'Darwin in action', but some otherwise intelligent and rational friends of mine use homeopathic treatments, and happily pay for them, despite being aware of the evidence that it's just placebo, 'because it works for them'... I can only shrug.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

I beg to differ for those saying its not real. I have suffered from migraines all my life. I do have meds that help me have fewer of them. But it still leaves me open to them. I do take pills to for when I get one. But they don't work half the time. Like many I was skeptical of such things like "magnetic headbands" and other such "snake oil" things as I call them. But out of desperation I bought one from Homeopedics (however its spelled) about 10 years ago. It goes around your head and you use velcro to tighten it. I used it with NO belief it would work. And it blew my mind when it did. I'd say maybe 75% of my migraines have gone away from it. The rest of the time it doesn't fully work probably because I waited to long to use it.

Now. I did experiment with it. I thought maybe it had to do with just an item being wrapped around your head tightly. So I used some cheap headband I found online (not with magnets) and wrapped it around my head tight. Did nothing for my migraine. I tried it wrapped loose. Did nothing for my migraine. Tried my magnetic headband again and it worked. Again, I don't believe in these type of things normally, but this worked and I have no idea how to explain why it did. Some will say "placebo affect!". But how does that explain my migraines going away? Migraines that often fast acting pills don't seem to do much for. Did I magically make myself think the migraine was gone? Mine are so bad that I have to lay in bed for hours throwing up into a bucket. So I didn't placebo anything. BTW the headband I got was recommended by an aunt whos into natural stuff. She said most of the magnetic headbands are cheap knockoffs that don't do anything (which may be true, but I don't know).

Now we get into "But its been shown not to work!". Well think about it. Pharmaceuticals make MASSIVE money off of pills. So of course they will throw money at studies to favor pills and not natural methods. Because with natural methods it puts doctors out of buisness and they can't afford their yacht payments. Does this mean I believe in other natural things? Well usually no. There are some things I believe help like warm peppermint tea for an upset stomach and so on. And other things like acupuncture... I'm not sure about. I have had people who say it works. For awhile I went to a kinseologist. They worked miracles for my health. They mix science and natural things. But since insurance doesn't cover them it was $50 a visit. And thats for basic stuff. They all had PHDs of course.

So for me I can claim magnetic headbands work. Most chose to say it doesn't matter if it works or not because science says otherwise. But if thats the case that means one can't believe in the big bang either since what happened microseconds before the big is unknown and not proven.

 

[JacksBratt]

I beg to differ for those saying its not real. I have suffered from migraines all my life. I do have meds that help me have fewer of them. But it still leaves me open to them. I do take pills to for when I get one. But they don't work half the time. Like many I was skeptical of such things like "magnetic headbands" and other such "snake oil" things as I call them. But out of desperation I bought one from Homeopedics (however its spelled) about 10 years ago. It goes around your head and you use velcro to tighten it. I used it with NO belief it would work. And it blew my mind when it did. I'd say maybe 75% of my migraines have gone away from it. The rest of the time it doesn't fully work probably because I waited to long to use it.

Now. I did experiment with it. I thought maybe it had to do with just an item being wrapped around your head tightly. So I used some cheap headband I found online (not with magnets) and wrapped it around my head tight. Did nothing for my migraine. I tried it wrapped loose. Did nothing for my migraine. Tried my magnetic headband again and it worked. Again, I don't believe in these type of things normally, but this worked and I have no idea how to explain why it did. Some will say "placebo affect!". But how does that explain my migraines going away? Migraines that often fast acting pills don't seem to do much for. Did I magically make myself think the migraine was gone? Mine are so bad that I have to lay in bed for hours throwing up into a bucket. So I didn't placebo anything. BTW the headband I got was recommended by an aunt whos into natural stuff. She said most of the magnetic headbands are cheap knockoffs that don't do anything (which may be true, but I don't know).

Now we get into "But its been shown not to work!". Well think about it. Pharmaceuticals make MASSIVE money off of pills. So of course they will throw money at studies to favor pills and not natural methods. Because with natural methods it puts doctors out of buisness and they can't afford their yacht payments. Does this mean I believe in other natural things? Well usually no. There are some things I believe help like warm peppermint tea for an upset stomach and so on. And other things like acupuncture... I'm not sure about. I have had people who say it works. For awhile I went to a kinseologist. They worked miracles for my health. They mix science and natural things. But since insurance doesn't cover them it was $50 a visit. And thats for basic stuff. They all had PHDs of course.

So for me I can claim magnetic headbands work. Most chose to say it doesn't matter if it works or not because science says otherwise. But if thats the case that means one can't believe in the big bang either since what happened microseconds before the big is unknown and not proven.

I agree. I am certain that my magnetic necklace has decreased the frequency, onset, duration, and severity of my migraines. No study will convince me other wise. I also believe that a dog, given a magnetic collar, has no conscious or subconscious connection to the magnetic collar that allowed him to run up and down stairs, play, fetch and enjoy walks again to such an extent that even the neighbors wanted to know what med's the vet had given them for their dog.

For me, the $40.00 dollars was well spent. The couple that bought the dog collar considered that purchase money well spent as well.

I do agree with one poster here, who noticed that some people will believe in things like this and others cannot bring themselves to. They seem to have this polar characteristic in many aspects of life. They either never believe or they are always open to believe.

 

[essentialsaltes]

So for me I can claim magnetic headbands work. Most chose to say it doesn't matter if it works or not because science says otherwise. But if thats the case that means one can't believe in the big bang either since what happened microseconds before the big is unknown and not proven.

Logic! How does it work?!

Not like that.

 

[JacksBratt]

Because experiments designed to show whether magnets are responsible show that they are not. Whatever effects are reported are caused by something else because it makes no difference if the bracelet is magnetic or not.
Not only do experiments show that it's not magnetic flux that causes the reported effects, physiology and biophysics give no support whatever for it; and yes, we do understand enough about magnetic fields and the body to know what kinds of fields & strengths do affect the body and what kinds don't. For example, MRI scanners have incredibly powerful magnetic fields (which is why you have to remove all metallic items), but have no noticeable effects on physiology. With a strong enough magnetic field you can even levitate a frog via it's weak diamagnetism; does it have any measurable effect on the frogs physiology? No.

What frequency do MRI's operate at. The therapeutic magnetic frequency is the same as the earth which is about 8 Hz. Higher frequencies are either inert or harmful in some ways.

As for the studies. Who sponsored them? Who put up the money? Always follow the money when you are looking at things like this.

My doctor does the Bah humbug over taking echinacea for colds but I would not face a cold without it.

I guess you have to see what works, or doesn't work, for you. Then you have to factor in the cost. Is it worth the money. My supplier allowed a 30 day money back guarantee which was good for skeptics. Then decide for yourself. When people give the old "science proves it doesn't work" you can say "well it does for me and that's all that matters".

 

[essentialsaltes]

What frequency do MRI's operate at.

Depending on the magnet strength, maybe 1-100 MHz, but more importantly.... MRI's are not therapeutic. It is an imaging technique.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

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