Lust: Is it possible to control all your thoughts?

[Zebra1552]

Jaws13,
Which is what was being said all along and what I said. hmmn.
Of course not, Christians believe the Biblical testimony so if it’s described as a sin in the Bible, Christians seek to avoid it.

You've yet to show first of all what the sin is and secondly where it is in the Bible.

I agree it is as valid as the first time it was posted, your response to it is irrelevant, that’s what the Bible says and what the Christian churches hold to. Repeating your denial of it doesn’t change the truth of Jesus Christ.

And once again, calling sound hermeneutics and a rebuttal irrelevant shows that you have no interest in discussion, only airing your own opinion. If you're here for that, then I'm not playing. I'm not denying the truth of Christ, I'm denying your baseless claims on what you think it is.

It does to me so that’s ok with me. If you want to debate you need to come up with some scripture otherwise your argument is baseless.

Relativism and burden shifting doesn't help your argument, regardless of whether you think it does or not. You say my argument is baseless unless it's supported by Scripture that I cite. So tell me: What is my argument?

The Bible doesn’t mention it or have any such concept, it was you who mentioned it.

Then quote me. Where did I bring it up?

 

[If Not For Grace]

And I am also disappointed with the sermons on this topic. I listened to many sermons about sin hoping to find a clear solution or method HOW to become dead to sin but in the end they were all not helpful and vague. Oh, you simply have to kill your flesh. Yeah, very helpful advice! Excuse me, I'm off killing my flesh....

I could not agree more-we need more than do's & don'ts-HOW (which implies a process) is more practical.

All I can say is it's not just women-

 

[ghendricks63]

I could not agree more-we need more than do's & don'ts-HOW (which implies a process) is more practical.

When one's personal definition of sin goes way beyond what God ever intended...they guarentee themselves a life of struggle in the bondage of that sin.

To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted.
Titus 1:15

 

[Jim Bob]

@ If not for grace

It's not just dos and donts. Also advice like "you simply need more intimacy with God and then you overcome temptation" isnt really helpful. What if you simply dont know how to get this intimacy? What if you have been like me trying for years to get a breakthrough and somehow experience God and werent able to then what do you do? Then how does it help me at all when somebody brings up such a topic as intimacy or relationship with is already a totally red flag for me which directly sadens me? I dont even want to hear about this because it hurts. I dont want to think about it because I dont know how to get it. How shall I conquer a sin with something I dont have and which also totally drags me down? Then I only get more depressed trying to get this intimacy with God and then I will be even more vulnerable to sin. I have experienced this many times. In those times were I was really hungry for God and thought only about God most of the time I realized that I simply dont know how to get to God and this was totally frustrating and it only burned me out so I had to shift my focus again to other things. Trying to attain something and not knowing how is really painful. I'm scared of this.

 

[Zebra1552]

@ If not for grace

It's not just dos and donts. Also advice like "you simply need more intimacy with God and then you overcome temptation" isnt really helpful. What if you simply dont know how to get this intimacy? What if you have been like me trying for years to get a breakthrough and somehow experience God and werent able to then what do you do?

Some of my friends would be totally shocked to hear me say this. My relationship with God is my own. I don't look for breakthroughs. I keep my eyes open in whatever I'm doing, because that is how God speaks to me. God has spoken to me in anything from video games to the words of a 7 year old child. When I spend time with God, it's not time I intentionally set aside. You might say it's like He's by my side all the time. He's the father I never had, one who pays attention to me and loves me when I'm at my strongest and at my weakest. And He doesn't refrain from correcting me either.

Advice like 'you just need more intimacy with God' is pish posh. Look at the disciples. They were with Jesus all the time, hanging onto His every word. They wanted to be like Him, think like Him, act like Him. Peter went so far as to talk like Him (Tabitha's resurrection). The best advice anyone can give you is to be yourself. Meet with God daily. Think about Him, talk with Him. Open up to Him. Are you into reading? Check out Ted Dekker and Bill Bright's Blessed Child and A Man Called Blessed (in that order). They illustrate very well what it means to experience God.

Then how does it help me at all when somebody brings up such a topic as intimacy or relationship with is already a totally red flag for me which directly sadens me?

They can't know that. I doubt anyone is purposely throwing a wrench your way just to get under your skin.

I dont even want to hear about this because it hurts. I dont want to think about it because I dont know how to get it.

Hold it right there. Avoiding pain is a natural human response, but that is not what we are called to do. We are called to grow in suffering. James 1 speaks to this. Not thinking about it and not dealing with it aren't going to help you. I have family issues. My dad is a wonderful person, but he doesn't get it emotionally. He doesn't know how to connect with people, and he doesn't know how to express his love. I grew up with that. So I had to figure out how to show people that I care and not make the same mistakes he does- and I'm still figuring that out. It hurts knowing that you don't have family you can share your life with. I've been going out with my girlfriend for 2 and a half years, and I'm often reminded that my parents didn't make it. They divorced, and then remarried- my father to a perfectionist snob and my mother to a then alcoholic (he's recovered and is now in the hospital). That alone is a lot to deal with. I don't know why talking about intimacy and relationship hurts for you, but I didn't find it a particularly thrilling topic for quite some time.

You're in pain. Acknowledge the pain, figure out why you're in pain, and deal with the pain. Only by facing it can you hope to make real progress.

How shall I conquer a sin with something I dont have and which also totally drags me down? Then I only get more depressed trying to get this intimacy with God and then I will be even more vulnerable to sin. I have experienced this many times. In those times were I was really hungry for God and thought only about God most of the time I realized that I simply dont know how to get to God and this was totally frustrating and it only burned me out so I had to shift my focus again to other things. Trying to attain something and not knowing how is really painful. I'm scared of this.

If you want to get closer to God so you don't sin, then stop worrying about the sin and worry about getting closer to God. Take it one step at a time. If you can, find a Christian counselor. They can help you work through this stuff. So can close friends.

 

[Zebra1552]

When one's personal definition of sin goes way beyond what God ever intended...they guarentee themselves a life of struggle in the bondage of that sin.

To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted.
Titus 1:15

True, but this can be taken too far.

 

[Jim Bob]

@ jaws13

I do not know how to get closer to God, okay? I don't even know if the stuff which other christians claim to have is real or delusional. I tried to get zapped by God and hear him and all that stuff and none of it worked. I went to ministers for prayer and thought that God would slay me and then everything would be fine but nothing happened. I wanted to just "seek" God and pray until something finally happens but I only got frustrated and had to give up.
I am not going to do this again and fail again and have even more pain!

 

[Zebra1552]

@ jaws13

I do not know how to get closer to God, okay?

You have friends, do you not? How do you get closer to them? You spend time with them. You talk with them. You do stuff together.

I don't even know if the stuff which other christians claim to have is real or delusional. I tried to get zapped by God and hear him and all that stuff and none of it worked. I went to ministers for prayer and thought that God would slay me and then everything would be fine but nothing happened.

So you wanted God to punish you for something?

I wanted to just "seek" God and pray until something finally happens but I only got frustrated and had to give up.

Why did you give up?

I am not going to do this again and fail again and have even more pain!

If you are unwilling to do something about them, you have no right to whine about your troubles.

 

[Walter Kovacs]

You want to be closer to God? Obey Him.

 

[Philothei]

@ jaws13

I do not know how to get closer to God, okay? I don't even know if the stuff which other christians claim to have is real or delusional. I tried to get zapped by God and hear him and all that stuff and none of it worked. I went to ministers for prayer and thought that God would slay me and then everything would be fine but nothing happened. I wanted to just "seek" God and pray until something finally happens but I only got frustrated and had to give up.
I am not going to do this again and fail again and have even more pain!

Hi Jim Bob,

Do not get discouraged. We all struggle ..Part of being a Christian is that continious struggle. Our Lord says that in Him we find refuge and courage to fight the good fight not that there will be no fight Many indeed young in this come to the faith thinking that God will make it all good for them.... God does respond to us but we have to also do our part we need to give him a chance to remain in his Love and in his mercy for that way we will be blessed by His presence. It is a struggle to be a Chistian it is not easy for a comfortable Christian is a utopia...it does not exist. The pain you feel is normal the frustration is normal. Keep on track...no matter what the struggle just be reassuered he is with you and he is holding you. The very fact we live is a miracle for we are ALL dependant on God alone

I am not sure if this was helpful or not but I tried my best to relate to you... I see that what you struggle with is not an easy one. And do seek a pastor. If you were dissapointed in one try another one. Sometimes we do need to seek advice until we get it right God will reveal to you your spiritual guide just give it sometime and stick to it

God bless you brother
Prayers.

 

[Philothei]

listened to many sermons about sin hoping to find a clear solution or method HOW to become dead to sin but in the end they were all not helpful and vague. Oh, you simply have to kill your flesh. Yeah, very helpful advice! Excuse me, I'm off killing my flesh....

Or another great advice "consider yourself dead to sin" yeah, that's totally easy. I guess I simply consider myself dead to sin and simply deny the reality that even one damn image can totally turn me on. How is denying the reality going to solve anything?!

All this advice is great if one takes things in small doses... You cannot learn to run before you walk... You have to start to walk before you run... Paul says avoid to do evil...first... then do good and avoid evil.

We all need to train ourselves to become better in what we want to accomplish. First we need to stop doing evil... By doing this we train ourselves to start doing good...By doing good we avoid evil altogether. if you are on the comp and you feel the temptation coming then go for a walk or talk to a friend on the phone, do some house work or listen to music, read a book... Distruct your self with some activity that would replace the bad one.

It is not easy as sometimes the temptation will return but slowly you will train yourself to find alternatives.

 

[Armistead14]

When one wants to define lust with sexual thought they find themselves
confused and defeated. Sexual thought is normal and natural, it stems from puberty, an act of God to make males and females seek each other out.

Lust is power or the greed to take or control something that doesn't belong to you. One can lust sexually as in many areas of life, but sexual thought, desire, etc...is totally normal.

Sadly, religion with political influence sought to control man. They did so out of fear and controlling their sexual practices.

 

[ghendricks63]

When one wants to define lust with sexual thought they find themselves
confused and defeated. Sexual thought is normal and natural, it stems from puberty, an act of God to make males and females seek each other out.

Lust is power or the greed to take or control something that doesn't belong to you. One can lust sexually as in many areas of life, but sexual thought, desire, etc...is totally normal.

Sadly, religion with political influence sought to control man. They did so out of fear and controlling their sexual practices.

Exactly.

 

[Voice in the Desert]

I think in a Christian context what many people mean by "lusting" is entertaining and developing sexual fantasies in one's mind and imagination.

 

[Zebra1552]

I think in a Christian context what many people mean by "lusting" is entertaining and developing sexual fantasies in one's mind and imagination.

Anyone who's ever discussed the issue around here knows exactly what most people mean. The trouble comes when this is put to the test with what the Bible actually says.

 

[brightmorningstar]

The standard verses, Matt 19, Mark 10 and Eph 5, affirming Gen 2, coupled with passages such as 1 Cor 7 leave the reader in no doubt that sexual intercourse is for a faithful man woman marriage, it is the only alternative given to celibacy or sexaul immorality.
There is therefore little point for Christians to discuss what sexual thoughts/activity is. The purpose of the thread concerns is it possible to control thoughts of lust which is sexual thoughts outside marriage. The NT describes very well how all are tempted with such thoughts but that by focussing on Christ and being guided by the Holy Spirit one can avoid wrong sexual thoughts. The battle therefore is to focus on Christ and live by the Spirit rather than focussing on the desires.

 

[dayhiker]

I could get to lust is sexual thoughts outside of marriage if I ignored a lot of the Bible and what the Bible said in the days it was written.

 

[ghendricks63]

I could get to lust is sexual thoughts outside of marriage if I ignored a lot of the Bible and what the Bible said in the days it was written.

Yes so true. But sadly the belief is so deeply ingrained that there is no reasoning with most Christians.

 

[Zebra1552]

The standard verses, Matt 19, Mark 10 and Eph 5, affirming Gen 2, coupled with passages such as 1 Cor 7 leave the reader in no doubt that sexual intercourse is for a faithful man woman marriage, it is the only alternative given to celibacy or sexaul immorality.

Off topic. This is about lust, not sex.

There is therefore little point for Christians to discuss what sexual thoughts/activity is.

On what grounds? Because of some off topic statement about what sexuality is in the Bible? A subject that is off topic does not establish the lack of use in discussing something.

The purpose of the thread concerns is it possible to control thoughts of lust which is sexual thoughts outside marriage.

Prove that lust is sexual thoughts outside of marriage. Heck, show that lust has anything to do with thoughts.

The NT describes very well how all are tempted with such thoughts but that by focussing on Christ and being guided by the Holy Spirit one can avoid wrong sexual thoughts. The battle therefore is to focus on Christ and live by the Spirit rather than focussing on the desires.

Equivocation: You referred to lust both as thoughts and then as desires. Which is it? It cannot be both.

 

[ghendricks63]

There are many who like to attach their own definition to terms and passages in the bible, and then demand that all accept their own personal translation as it were, as authoritative as scripture itself.