Lust: Is it possible to control all your thoughts?

[brightmorningstar]

ghendrick63,

No I think the point we have been debating for many pages now is that sexual thought is not by definition lust.

Except that it has been shown to be associated primarily with lust by dictionary definition and according to what the Bible says. All we have is a merry go round of providing the scripture and posters aksing where.

I suspect that some of what you would define as temptation I would refer to as perfectly normal even for the Christian.

But what is normal is up to God and His word and not you, thats the problem.

 

[Zebra1552]

Jaws13,
Christ who if not the one in the Bible? Whjo are you referring to?

Are you seriously asking me who Christ is on a Christian forum? I'm not answering that.

 

[Zebra1552]

ghendrick63,
Except that it has been shown to be associated primarily with lust by dictionary definition and according to what the Bible says. All we have is a merry go round of providing the scripture and posters aksing where.

Gee, because you're relying on an English dictionary when it's a Greek word based on a Hebrew word and you're ignoring that?

But what is normal is up to God and His word and not you, thats the problem.

Where does the Bible address it?

 

[ghendricks63]

You may refer to it as perfectly normal.. but it is in God's eyes that really counts..

EXACTLY!!

My point all along all along has been that the church hysteria towards sex and sexual thought is based on what MAN says, not on what God says.

 

[ghendricks63]

ghendrick63,
Except that it has been shown to be associated primarily with lust by dictionary definition and according to what the Bible says. All we have is a merry go round of providing the scripture and posters aksing where. [/color][/size][/font]
But what is normal is up to God and His word and not you, thats the problem.

As I said...I am done with you. I won't play your silly games of misdirection, false claims, and purely antagonistic remarks. Leave me alone.

 

[John 3:17]

"Jaws13" I am excited to read about your zeal for truth and understanding..what is meant by this phrase.... whose preconceived notions are right and whose are wrong... I Perceive that the lord will work might works in you, as even now certain attributes you possess will be beneficial to his kingdom.. I resign to engaging you, but will say these things in final rebuttal. Jesus made some outrageous claims also. No I'm not him but I am one of his many children.


Discourse as defined on thefreedictionary.com is yes what you listed but also...to speak or write formally at length.

And as far as the quotes are concerned, you are correct.. but again I'm new.. A little leeway would be appreciated.

And as for the opening in the book to the Romans...yes this involves homosexuals. I will concede on this example.

 

[Jim Bob]

It means craving someone else and wanting to take them. That is what lust is. It's far beyond ordinary, fleeting desire.

I can't really work with those definitions. Let's say I sit in a cafe and there is a totally hot waitress and I see her walk around and then think about how great it would be to touch those gorgeous breasts and so on then I'm not out making plans to stalk her or to kidnap her and then perform those things but does this mean that it's perfectly okay unless you really want to "take" this person?

Without sexual desire, there is no sex.

But what if we simply have to repress this desire until we are married? What if that is simply the solution? Totally suppress it and then when you're married you have your license to go.

Sex and along with it sexual desire is created by God and helps us connect with ourselves and with others, in the right contexts.

How do you define sexual desire? In the waitress example is wanting to touch her breasts a normal sexual desire? Or is this already a sin?

I once thought that to 'not lust' I had to refrain from any and all fantasies.

Now you mention fantasies. I thought that you thought that only thinking about sex in the sense of how sex is taught in school is allowed. What fantasies do you mean? Can you give an example of a legitimate fantasy and a forbidden one? I think when we talk about such things and use such unclear terms then only way to really get clarity is by using examples otherwise I have no clue what you mean and you have no clue what I mean.

The guilt then drives some from following Christ any more. I personally think its the 1st reason teens that teens find to stop following Christ. They conclude if God can't deliver me from sin He must not be real.

That is really a danger especially when it's not even clear if it really is a sin. I mean what if you say eating is a sin and all you have to do is pray to God and believe he will deliver you but it never happens then what? This is a danger which I see with this you can basically always simply say "Oh you just didn't want it enough otherwise you would have made it".

One pastor use to say put your hands on your pillow and pray the Blood of Jesus before you go to sleep. That seems to work for me.

I'm sorry but I can't work with such mystical stuff. This almost sounds like white witchcraft. It's like all you gotta do is pray the magic prayer and then everything will be fine. No more temptations, no more wet dreams. I have a hard time taking this seriously.

Beloved, I beg you as sojourners and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts which war against the soul,

Question for those who think MB is okay, what do you think are those "fleshly lusts" if not MB? I mean it somehow comes naturally to me to connect MB to fleshly lusts because it's fleshly. But eating could also be a fleshly lust. So how can we be sure that we really know what it is?

One does not sin with only a thought, one sins from the heart.
When the bible speaks of "the heart" it means the your whole person.

I am not sure I know what you mean. When we use my waitress example then are you saying that if I get a thought about wanting to touch her breasts then at the stage it's not sin yet and it is only sin when I keep thinking this thought and keep adding more details to my imaginations cause then I am doing it with my "whole person"?

Song of Solomon. You've read it right? There was a whole lot of fantasizing going on prior to ANY kind of marriage...and many even believe no marriage ever took place.

The question is is SoS really about sex? There are also some who say those who read sex into it have dirty minds. I mean you can also interpret a lot into things. There's even a supposedly christian website which says that SoS mentions practices like fisting!

That is the whole point... Yeshua did give us His strength to handle temptation, not in our own strength which we know can not do it.

Once again, the question is what is sin and what is not. If I tell you that having hunger is being tempted to eat then are you telling me all you gotta do is send a short prayer to heaven and then you'll never have to eat anymore cause God frees you from this "temptation"?
Imagine you realize after a few days you simply cannot overcome eating and then I come along with a few pious advice like "Just pray to God, he'll strengthen you". This also wouldn't be very helpful would it?

 

[Zebra1552]

"Jaws13" I am excited to read about your zeal for truth and understanding..what is meant by this phrase.... whose preconceived notions are right and whose are wrong... I Perceive that the lord will work might works in you, as even now certain attributes you possess will be beneficial to his kingdom.. I resign to engaging you, but will say these things in final rebuttal. Jesus made some outrageous claims also. No I'm not him but I am one of his many children.

Truth requires investigation. Blindly believing tradition simply because it's there is not investigation, it's stupidity.

Discourse as defined on thefreedictionary.com is yes what you listed but also...to speak or write formally at length.

Imagine that- most people write quite a bit around here. I've got over 13,000 posts on this account and 5,000 on my other account since 2007. Many threads in this subforum span a few pages of posts, and I have it set to 40 posts per page. Plenty of length here.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Lust from the flesh, and lust a spirit, are dealt with differently.

Receive grace, Jesus blood, living water, truth that frees...

It is salvation and sanctification. In salvation is self control, but by itself is not it.

Love people more than to lust after them, be wiser than to look and stronger. Be set free from the bondages and be shielded by power. It is in Psalm 51 and 40.

If your heart is not clean, your thoughts are unclean... you must receive by faith.

Mind control is a foolish error. Be aware of self or Jesus, or scriptures or temptation, even that is out of control by distraction and worries... phantasy is a spirit, it's trail is foul, confess each time you do it, honouring thoughts of people, or like acid in petrol it burns through the engines of your mind's cause and honours and makes your heart scarlet or black. Unlike visualizing, there is the element of self deception.

 

[visionary]

If you believe it is impossible to control your thoughts.. then you do not believe Yeshua can make it happen within you...

 

[ghendricks63]

The question is is SoS really about sex? There are also some who say those who read sex into it have dirty minds. I mean you can also interpret a lot into things. There's even a supposedly christian website which says that SoS mentions practices like fisting!

Is Song of Solomon really about sex? Are you for real?

The irony of such a silly position the negative sex obsessed take when they promote such nonsense is that even if it was metaphorical for the relationship between God and man (or whatever else they think it means) God chose the beautiful language of sexuality to express Himself. Clearly He does not have the hangup we do...LOL

I hate to say this Jim Bob, but I have come to the conclusion that you are clinging to your fear and almost embracing your guilt. Not sure there is much any of us can do to help you till you let go of your guilt and embrace the forgiveness in Christ.

 

[brightmorningstar]

If you believe it is impossible to control your thoughts.. then you do not believe Yeshua can make it happen within you...

Yes it is, amen!

 

[visionary]

Yes it is, amen![/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

amen... someone who believes in the power of God within us..

 

[ghendricks63]

amen... someone who believes in the power of God within us..

As do I. I absolutely believe God gives us strength to overcome temptation and to live voctorious lives. The fact that I do not believe that He chooses to make mindless robots out of us, or that He necessarily has declared sinful some of the things you believe to be sinful, does not imply any less faith my part.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

I say, Jesus met the woman at the well, prophesied to her and gave her, the Holy Spirit, Living Water, to drink. She was promiscuous, but changed.

Living water for lust.

Jesus bore the weight of the sin of lust on the cross. Receive Jesus blood, by faith, with the prayer of agreement, and the laying on of hands, want it! And receive by faith, and be cleansed of lust for a time and be stained with justice, in yourself.

The fire of God is zealous and refines us of sin, who receive by faith, and leaves us warm, clean, zealous.

Romans 5:5, if we love feast and receive love, we can overcome lust by being truly kind, instead of falsely. Lover versus lust.

If we ask for strength and receive, we can push passed the flesh with it's lusts and spirits within, for the commands of God, waiting in reverence for Jesus return, strongly declaring, "worthy is the lamb."

Wisdom, by faith and fear of the Lord, can make us see the evil of sin, motivate us and overcome the deception part of temptation to lust. Learn from others mistakes and our own.

The free gift of salvation, in surrender gives, love, joy, peace patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self control. Gal 5:22.

And we can ask for light.

The anointing oil, breaks the yoke of bondage, such as to lust. It is the Holy Spirit. From where comes the word, 'Messiah'. The anointing teaches us things most genuinely.

God disciplines us as children, at which we must take courage from God, and press through the obstacles. Led by the Spirit, of Jesus within, in surrender. Through pains. Then one has righteousness and peace.

Testimonies of people overcoming lusts, helps us see the way, the truth and the life. And makes us thirst for what they have.

Preachers and teachers help us too.

One mentions, pushing for faith and patience of Gal 5:22, for powerful prayers for inner and outer changes.

In the end, we cannot enter the presence of the father in Heaven, if we have not been made perfect as he is perfect. Only he can perfect us, in justice and holiness, with it's love. By his word and mainly, his Spirit, inside our centre of thought and affection. Not pain, or knowledge, nothing but the Spirit, nothing but the blood of Jesus can fix us.

Sin is clever and strong in the flesh, and society full of lusts... but Jesus overcame sin, Jesus then sent the Holy Spirit. For sin, we must die, but through Jesus and the Spirit, we can come to Our Father who cannot change and cannot tolerate sin or injustice. We can be alike him, sons and daughters. A new nature of holiness with it's character of love.

Then we show our true colours from the blueprints of God. And never steal or kill in a perfect Heaven, perfect people, glories yet not known.

 

[visionary]

As do I. I absolutely believe God gives us strength to overcome temptation and to live voctorious lives. The fact that I do not believe that He chooses to make mindless robots out of us, or that He necessarily has declared sinful some of the things you believe to be sinful, does not imply any less faith my part.

1 John 4:4
Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

 

[visionary]

I say, Jesus met the woman at the well, prophesied to her and gave her, the Holy Spirit, Living Water, to drink. She was promiscuous, but changed.

Living water for lust.

Jesus bore the weight of the sin of lust on the cross. Receive Jesus blood, by faith, with the prayer of agreement, and the laying on of hands, want it! And receive by faith, and be cleansed of lust for a time and be stained with justice, in yourself.

The fire of God is zealous and refines us of sin, who receive by faith, and leaves us warm, clean, zealous.

Romans 5:5, if we love feast and receive love, we can overcome lust by being truly kind, instead of falsely. Lover versus lust.

If we ask for strength and receive, we can push passed the flesh with it's lusts and spirits within, for the commands of God, waiting in reverence for Jesus return, strongly declaring, "worthy is the lamb."

Wisdom, by faith and fear of the Lord, can make us see the evil of sin, motivate us and overcome the deception part of temptation to lust. Learn from others mistakes and our own.

The free gift of salvation, in surrender gives, love, joy, peace patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self control. Gal 5:22.

And we can ask for light.

The anointing oil, breaks the yoke of bondage, such as to lust. It is the Holy Spirit. From where comes the word, 'Messiah'. The anointing teaches us things most genuinely.

God disciplines us as children, at which we must take courage from God, and press through the obstacles. Led by the Spirit, of Jesus within, in surrender. Through pains. Then one has righteousness and peace.

Testimonies of people overcoming lusts, helps us see the way, the truth and the life. And makes us thirst for what they have.

Preachers and teachers help us too.

One mentions, pushing for faith and patience of Gal 5:22, for powerful prayers for inner and outer changes.

In the end, we cannot enter the presence of the father in Heaven, if we have not been made perfect as he is perfect. Only he can perfect us, in justice and holiness, with it's love. By his word and mainly, his Spirit, inside our centre of thought and affection. Not pain, or knowledge, nothing but the Spirit, nothing but the blood of Jesus can fix us.

Sin is clever and strong in the flesh, and society full of lusts... but Jesus overcame sin, Jesus then sent the Holy Spirit. For sin, we must die, but through Jesus and the Spirit, we can come to Our Father who cannot change and cannot tolerate sin or injustice. We can be alike him, sons and daughters. A new nature of holiness with it's character of love.

Then we show our true colours from the blueprints of God. And never steal or kill in a perfect Heaven, perfect people, glories yet not known.

1 John 5:4
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

 

[ghendricks63]

1 John 4:4
Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

I really wish you would state what it is you are trying to convey when you post a scripture.

 

[visionary]

I really wish you would state what it is you are trying to convey when you post a scripture.

Simple... Yeshua who is in you has already overcome the world of temptation.. Let Him reign within you.. and the victory that is His is yours too.

 

[Zebra1552]

Simple... Yeshua who is in you has already overcome the world of temptation.. Let Him reign within you.. and the victory that is His is yours too.

Again, this is incredibly vague and doesn't state your opinion one way or the other, nor does it really contribute to the discussion. This is a post worthy of the advice section, not a discussion section.