Lust: Is it possible to control all your thoughts?

[Zebra1552]

Jaws13
So what, vagina, a penis, breasts, testicles, buttocks. Why is thinking about these parts bad? They're normal body parts. You have some. Others have some. So you're aroused when you think about a vagina. Why is being aroused bad? IS IT bad?

Now, finally we're getting somewhere. What you mean exactly by normal body parts I'm not entirely certain.. If by normal you mean that we all have them then yes, they are all normal.. If normal is meant to suppose that we do not distinguish these specific body parts from others then no, no they're not normal. Are they not called private parts?

...only according to what society has established. You've heard of nude beaches. They don't care. Why should we?

Did Adam and Eve seek not to hid their shame of nakedness by covering themselves with fig leaves in the garden? Before the fall they were not ashamed of their nakedness before God, Genesis 2:24, afterwards what happened? How are we to understand this if these body parts are "normal?"

They were ashamed because their perceptions changed. Presumably their perceptions were okay with God and they didn't care about being naked then. So I'll ask you again. Why are these parts any different just because they have different names?

Why is being aroused bad? Now we're coming full circle to my original question.."When a man or woman think sexual fantasies, thoughts, or everything of the like, who does this benefit?"
No being aroused is not bad, but it is for the purpose of sex no?

So what? Arousal isn't just for the purpose of sex. It heightens awareness as well as other physiological changes that are not just for the purpose of sex.

Sexual Intercourse is not bad not bad at all, but it has it's intended purpose as does everything in this current world.. 1 Corinthians 7:2 Nevertheless to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every women have her own husband."

Fornication. Sex with someone other than your spouse. That says nothing about the purpose of sexual desire. Why bring up a verse that has nothing to do with this conversation?

The issue is not arousal being evil or bad, but what is the object of your arousal and do you seek to control it and not let it manifest in thought or action...

Why? For what purpose?

Now I speak... What does it benefit you to be aroused by a woman you're not married to? From this you desire to sleep with her for personal gratification...fleeting pleasure. This is selfishness.

It is also selfish to eat. To drink. To play video games. To work out. To sleep. And yet it is the sexual desire, not any of these, that gets condemned, even though it is more basic than video games and working out. Furthermore, you contradict yourself. You ask what it benefits, then you say it's selfish. Obviously it benefits something or people wouldn't do it.

A woman is more than just skin and hair, and sex is intended to get to know her on her deepest most secret level out of perfect love, even spiritual love. Sex is meant to know someone even as god knows us, him by residing inside us through his spirit. Out of all the women a man sleeps with or thinks about sleeping with or being aroused by in his mind... how many does he marry? One. And even the one should not be daydreamt on prior to marriage.

You are wrong. A typical man actually marries more than one person in the US, if he marries at all.

Don't worry about "how bad the sex would be if you don't experiment prior to marriage" Love will deal with this and god knows you better than you know yourself he'll find you the right mate.....You don't prematurely fantasize about her because, like God, you are more focused on that which is within than that which is without. I speak these things to your benefit.

What authority do you have to make these claims? Are you God?

Desiring something you cannot have leaves you to pursue it sometimes at all costs...

Other times you are not desiring something you cannot have because the brain is able to create fake people through imagination, which you still have not addressed.

If there was no lust or covetousness then surely there would be no rape, incest, adultery, pedophilia, perversions in pornography, perversions in the mind, perversions in speech, cheating, deceitfulness, agonizing sorrow for desiring but not having, and everything of the like.

Pedophilia and rape are not set to fulfill some sexual desire, but a desire for power over others. You have no way of supporting this claim.

We are not animals hopelessly enslaved to the way our body is programed; no doubt i believe that before the fall we weren't "turned on by sight" but perfect love for another triggered our sexual arousal....With this concept, the lust of the flesh is not normal or God given, but nothing more than a selfish and perverted distortion of the truth of love.

You haven't even defined lust, so what gives you the right to condemn that which it may not be?

No, like The Apostle Paul we beat our bodies and make it our slaves. We are the children of God and for now are meant to be content with lack.. wanting and desiring nothing.. With the fruit of the Holy Ghost we are full and perfected.

Content with wanting and desiring nothing? That is impossible.

Understand how many hearts are broken from relationships ending because individuals were used for sex but past that nothing else valuable was found in them. This would no doubt be a non-issue if love was first perfected for and individual through that which is within.. then sex, in turn would, be all the more lovely... The only caveat to this issues is masturbation, though necessary for another thread, I feel the need to address it here. Since my discourse is already winded i will simply say this...

You mean a poor attempt at a monologue, not a discourse. Discourse involves two people interaction. You have come into this thread with the attitude that you are right and anyone else is wrong, not for discussion.

Sexual tension is not a valid excuse, this concept is vague and misleading...Try denying yourself with the spirit that God gives and such a concept will vanish away just a quickly as those who touch, living selfishly, use it to defend their deeds. Heartbreak, selfishness, endless compliance to desires, and ignorance is not what God intended for his children...and i presume Jaws 13, you do not feel it was intended for you either.

You assume that what you deem 'lust' is the lust of the Bible and that this conception automatically leads to bad things. Quite an assumption.

You see what lengthy reply I have written you... this is out of concern. I know nothing but what Christ reveals to me, and my love for him is even expressed now to you.

No, you're saying it to be right and attempt to hold me accountable to you. You are not my friend and have no right to tell me what I can and cannot do, especially when you do not give evidence for your vague and outrageous claims. If you did it out of love, you wouldn't be calling me out.

 

[brightmorningstar]

Fornication. Sex with someone other than your spouse. That says nothing about the purpose of sexual desire. Why bring up a verse that has nothing to do with this conversation?

When Jesus NT teaching cites Gen 2 as what God said, in the beggining He made them male and female; it was for this reason a man shall ... be united with his wife and the two shall be one flesh, and 1 Cor 7 because of so much sexual immorality each man shall have his own wife, it addresses the relationships, it doesnt address sexual desire. Sexual desire can be for the situation countenanced or condemned.

 

[ghendricks63]

. Out of all the women a man sleeps with or thinks about sleeping with or being aroused by in his mind... how many does he marry? One. And even the one should not be daydreamt on prior to marriage. Don't worry about "how bad the sex would be if you don't experiment prior to marriage" Love will deal with this and god knows you better than you know yourself he'll find you the right mate.....You don't prematurely fantasize about her because, like God, you are more focused on that which is within than that which is without.

Hmm...Song of Solomon. You've read it right? There was a whole lot of fantasizing going on prior to ANY kind of marriage...and many even believe no marriage ever took place.

 

[brightmorningstar]

2 Cor 10:5 "reasonings bringing down, and every high thing lifted up against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of the Christ,"

 

[Zebra1552]

2 Cor 10:5 "reasonings bringing down, and every high thing lifted up against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of the Christ,"

Where does Christ give specific commands to how to obey him in sexual desires?

 

[ghendricks63]

Song Of Solomon 1:2-4

2 Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth—
for your love is more delightful than wine.
3 Pleasing is the fragrance of your perfumes;
your name is like perfume poured out.
No wonder the maidens love you!
4 Take me away with you—let us hurry!
Let the king bring me into his chambers.

 

[ghendricks63]

Song of Solomon 2:3-5

3 Like an apple tree among the trees of the forest
is my lover among the young men.
I delight to sit in his shade,
and his fruit is sweet to my taste.
4 He has taken me to the banquet hall,
and his banner over me is love.
5 Strengthen me with raisins,
refresh me with apples,
for I am faint with love.

 

[visionary]

I'm getting really angry when I think about how some women dress especially when it's summer. They walk around with totally tight clothes and sometimes it doesn't even look good or suit them but nevertheless they still have to force themselves into their tight jeans and whatever they wear. This angers me.
I have had days where it was so bad that I didn't know where to look because everywhere there were women in tight clothes tempting me. What if I see them and then simply can't control my thoughts!? Then I'm the one who sinned and they're innocent or what!?

I don't know about you but sometimes when I'm on the internet or in a forum then it happens that somebody opens a thread and I know there are pics of half-naked women in there and I know I shouldn't click on it but sometimes I do and then sometimes it's like all I have to see is one image for a second and then it's "on". Like an ex-smoker who just smelled his favorite brand. I don't understand how can this trigger such a reaction? And why doesn't this go away? I'm tired of always wrestling with such things and always feeling guilty. This only drags me down. Where is the freedom or the cure?!
Is all a christian can do feel miserable after a long day and then confess a long list of sins!?
Then again there are those who simply drop a few "helpful" phrases like: "You don't have to sin. There's freedom from sin. There is no temptation which is too big." But for me this isn't a reality. I know only tell what's real for me and temptation is very real. Like I said sometimes I only have to see 1 image in the newspaper or somewhere else and then I'm directly turned on and also can't simply get rid of this. And no smart advice like "simply avoid everything tempting" because that is not possible. Shall I lock myself away in the summer or what?
Why does it have to be such a struggle? If one could simply make a decision and then it's like not even the hottest women can affect you at all and it all bounces off from you then everything would be fine but why isn't it so?
And I am also disappointed with the sermons on this topic. I listened to many sermons about sin hoping to find a clear solution or method HOW to become dead to sin but in the end they were all not helpful and vague. Oh, you simply have to kill your flesh. Yeah, very helpful advice! Excuse me, I'm off killing my flesh....

Or another great advice "consider yourself dead to sin" yeah, that's totally easy. I guess I simply consider myself dead to sin and simply deny the reality that even one damn image can totally turn me on. How is denying the reality going to solve anything?!

Dwelling on it doesn't help... What things are pure.... etc.. think on those things.. I have found that helps a lot.

 

[ghendricks63]

Dwelling on it doesn't help... What things are pure.... etc.. think on those things.. I have found that helps a lot.

I find sexual thought to be as pure as any other thought.

 

[visionary]

I find sexual thought to be as pure as any other thought.

In its proper context you are right. .. but the mind does wonder... wander..

 

[ghendricks63]

Hence the purpose of the thread. Apart from the lust Jesus spoke of (coveteous desire to posess the forbidden) there is much freedom of thought.

 

[visionary]

That is the whole point... Yeshua did give us His strength to handle temptation, not in our own strength which we know can not do it.

 

[brightmorningstar]

Jaws13,
It is arguable as to any specific commands, however Christ's NT teaching countenancing man/woman mariage and condemning what is outside that coupled with references to lustful thoughts in relation to sex gives about as clear understanding as one can get about which sexual desires are righteous and which are sinful.

 

[brightmorningstar]

I find sexual thought to be as pure as any other thought.

that means nothing, so does the paedophile.

 

[brightmorningstar]

That is the whole point... Yeshua did give us His strength to handle temptation, not in our own strength which we know can not do it.

exactly, this isnt really a question for a Christian section of the forum.

 

[ghendricks63]

that means nothing, so does the paedophile.

That does it. What an ignorant comment!! You are officially back on my ignore status.

 

[ghendricks63]

That is the whole point... Yeshua did give us His strength to handle temptation, not in our own strength which we know can not do it.

No I think the point we have been debating for many pages now is that sexual thought is not by definition lust. I suspect that some of what you would define as temptation I would refer to as perfectly normal even for the Christian.

 

[visionary]

No I think the point we have been debating for many pages now is that sexual thought is not by definition lust. I suspect that some of what you would define as temptation I would refer to as perfectly normal even for the Christian.

You may refer to it as perfectly normal.. but it is in God's eyes that really counts..

 

[Zebra1552]

references to lustful thoughts in relation to sex gives about as clear understanding as one can get about which sexual desires are righteous and which are sinful.

What references? Where? Where does Christ tell us what is and is not okay?

 

[brightmorningstar]

Jaws13,

What references? Where? Where does Christ tell us what is and is not okay?

Christ who if not the one in the Bible? Whjo are you referring to?