- Dec 19, 2017
- 3,485
- 1,045
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Private
- Politics
- US-Others
Upvote
0
I heard you. And I’m still waiting.
I don’t need to wait. Your non-answer is sufficient.Waiting for an answer from God? Good for you.
I don’t need to wait. Your non-answer is sufficient.
how exactly do your words escape the same "foolishness" you speak against? Why is it what you have to say isn't just another example of more wisdom of man.The words which man's wisdom teaches "the many" concerning eschatology is as foolishness to God.
There are many people within the church who claim that their interpretation of the four beasts of Daniel 7 is correct. And they taught to many, through their sermons, books, movies, etc. I disagree because...
What most "professing Christians" believe is irrelevant. The words which man's wisdom teaches "the many" concerning eschatology is as foolishness to God. The natural man, as a beast, the carnal man living by the flesh, the wicked man is without sound judgment and doesn't understand the Spiritual.
1st Corinthians 2:13-16
I'm sure you've heard those verses before, but have you "heard" those verses before? The Spiritual man judgeth by that Spirit, but the natural man is like a beast, because he is evil and without the image of God, he is without sound judgment. That most believe something does not make something sound. Interpretation is not by committee, it's by the sound exegesis of God's word compared diligently "with" God's Word.
- "Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
- But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
- But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
- For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ."
And no, they cannot be right in this instance. God is not giving us a "literal" history lesson about Greece, Persia, and Rome, but a "spiritual" history lesson about a far more sinister spiritual rule. Christ is the prince of peace, what kingdom does He rule? Likewise, Satan is the Prince of this world, thus what kingdom does he rule? Their rules are not from particular physical nations or empires but from spiritual principalities. That's what many of you don't understand. Even though God has stated it in many diverse ways again and again and again. You still eschew the Spiritual nature of what God is speaking about.
Ephesians 6:12
Whether we like it or not, God is here telling us that our battle is not against the power of empires. It is not even physical. It is not even political. It is not against physical nations. Rather, it is against a "spiritual principality, spiritual power, and spiritual wickedness."
- "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
Everyone reads these things but few take it to heart.
Colossians 2:14-15
These Principalities and powers that Christ spoiled were not Rome. It was not Greece. It was not Persia. But it was spiritual "Egypt" and spiritual principalities and rulers of the darkness of this world. The Christian must take his mind off the nations of this world and think about a nation from above and just how it is being attacked. Take our eyes off this world and put them on Christ.
- "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
- And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it."
The beast, as God defined it, is the body of wicked men ruled by Satan. Selah!
Satan is thee beast, ruling through men, who are as beasts. Just as Satan is thee antichrist, ruling in many antichrists, which are men. There is a principle here that you are missing in your misinterpretation of scripture. Why does God call wicked men serpents, and calls Satan the serpent? Why is Christ called the Star, and we, His servants, called stars? The point I am making is that just because some people cannot recognize Satan as the beast, and natural or carnal man as a beast, doesn't mean God doesn't.
1st Corinthians 15:32
Did he wrestle with a bear, spar with a lion or tangle with a leopard? No, his fight was with men who were "as beasts" as a lion, bear and leopard! In other words, they were without moral values, judgment, knowledge or wisdom.
- "If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die."
If I might digress for a minute. What separates man from the dumb beasts of the field is his reasoning and intelligence. Man was created in the image or likeness of God so that (unlike dumb beasts) man was instilled with a certain intellect, reason and the inherent knowledge of His creator. Beasts have no reasoning, they have no knowledge, and they are not sensible. God often contrasts man with beast and even labels man a beast himself when he acts foolishly or without reasoning, or in a ravenous or vicious way. God even goes so far as to speak of man as a beast when illustrating man as unknowledgeable or simple (stupid, if you will). So the symbolism of a beast I believe is to illustrate man under the influence of Satan acting without reason or knowledge, or when lacking in wisdom and understanding, as one acting foolishly. Look at King David who admitted:
Psalms 73:22
Apparently, God thinks the foolish and ignorant man "IS" as a beast.
- "So foolish was I, and ignorant: I was as a beast before thee."
Now, You think it ridiculous that an image in Daniel 7 of four beasts, one looking like a lion with wings, one like a bear and another as a leopard could symbolize the rule of Satan throughout earth history? hmmmmmmmm! Then let me ask you "pointedly" if you also think it ridiculous that in Revelation a very similar image of four living creatures, with wings, one creature like a lion, another like a calf, another with a face as a man, and the fourth like a flying eagle, could be symbolic of the rule of Christ?
You see it's not strange or ridiculous at all. Christ is the eternal promise of the Lion of the tribe of Judah, Christ is the calf or Lamb slain from the foundation of the world, Christ is the Man who would take away the sins of the world, and Christ is the eagle, the protector of all His people under His wings. This type of interpretation is not Ridiculous at all.
...Selah!
Likewise with four beasts of Daniel 7. In case you haven't learned yet, scripture interprets scripture, not man, not history books, not a popular opinion, and most certainly not Church tradition (though I readily admit, most Christians today may think so). Satan is the spirit and rule that contrasts the Spirit and Rule of God. He is the pseudo-Christ, the antithesis of God. So it is not only "not ridiculous," and, not only plausible, but these contrasting four creatures and four beasts reveal the truth of it.
The Bible is its own interpreter. Is not the waters that bring life contrasted with the poisons that bring death? Is not the lamb contrasted with the wolf? Is not the good tree contrasted with the bad tree? Israel with Israel, children with children, sacrifice with sacrifice? So no, it's not ridiculous, it's exactly what we would expect if we have been studying the scriptures and know the consistency of God in His perfect design, cryptic imagery, and Biblical harmony. The symbolism isn't new or different, only the meaning is. No, it's not odd that God's Kingdom construct is symbolized by four living creatures, a Lion, a Lamb a Man and Eagle's wings, and Satan's kingdom construct is symbolized by four beasts, a Lion with wings, and Bear and a leopard. It's not an odd interpretation at all, it's in harmony with the interpretations seen throughout the whole Bible. That the wind of heaven brought these four is not odd either, as it illustrates God's immutible sovereignty over even this. God sends these four beast, which are DEFINITELY not four nations or empires like you thought. Please consider wisely:
Hosea 13:7-9
God will be unto them "AS" the Lion, the Leopard and the Bear, and come against Israel. Sound familiar, humm?
- "Therefore I will be unto them as a lion: as a leopard by the way will I observe them:
- I will meet them as a bear that is bereaved of her whelps, and will rend the caul of their heart, and there will I devour them like a lion: the wild beast shall tear them.
- Israel, thou hast destroyed thyself; but in me is thine help."
Selah!
But, as I say, it's Spiritually discerned. Only the wise will understand that all is not as it seems. It is foolish who mook things they do not understand and go out and play with newspaper eschatology.
Please consider wisely:
Daniel 7:17
17‘These four great beasts are four kings who will arise from the earth.
It's about prophesy and understanding it .... and we are expected to understand it ...
I believe based upon my studies of the Scripture, that the four kings are just the aspect of the Satanic Kingdom throughout time. Unfortunately, the traditional interpretations, which I used to teach, of the four kings of Daniel chapter 7 usually is that they are either literal empires or men. However, I have studied this enough to know that this is not true
You have had since 2006 to complete your studying. You are the guy who created the thread. You want everyone else to figure out how to make your partial interpretation work?That is just the superficial of my understanding on Daniel 7 that I am not going to discuss this too deeply because I am not finished studying some chapters (Daniel and Revelation) chapters enough to readily give chapter and verse why I believe this, and it can be very confusing and non-productive to those who don't know or understand what I am talking about. Some reactions I receive from my OP today were a good example. I am still studying.
Because why is it not true?
You have had since 2006 to complete your studying. You are the guy who created the thread. You want everyone else to figure out how to make your partial interpretation work?
From what I am reading in your post, it appears that one day you suddenly had an epiphany that all the tradtitonal interpretations of Daniel 7 that you had been teaching were wrong.Please read the whole post - I have explained some.
From what I am reading in your post, it appears that one day you suddenly had an epiphany that all the traditional interpretations of Daniel 7 that you had been teaching were wrong.
I believe based upon my studies of the Scripture, that the four kings are just the aspect of the Satanic Kingdom throughout time. Unfortunately, the traditional interpretations, which I used to teach, of the four kings of Daniel chapter 7 usually is that they are either literal empires or men. However, I have studied this enough to know that this is not true. When we examine the Scriptures more carefully we see that God is not interested in history lessons of worldly empires, but is illustrating spiritual truths.
Daniel 7:2-3
God has inspired these truths to be written in cryptic symbolism. For example, patterned after four literal ruling Kingdoms (Chaldea, Persian, Greece and Rome), but symbolizing a spiritual rule in the earth. These four beasts are spiritual pictures of the construct from which Satan rules, which is through carnal man. In other words, the four beasts actually symbolize systemic carnal world rule. In fact, in Revelation chapter 13 we can see these very same beasts pictured as one single beast that has all the aspects of these four beasts illustrated in Daniel chapter 7. I believe that they are four here to symbolize the "universality" of this rule of Satan over the peoples of the world. The number 4 symbolizes universality. The beasts are kings, which symbolize rules. The wind many times is synonymous with spirit, and by this prophesy referring to "the four winds of the heaven," it implies the Holy Spirit. Horns are symbolic of power and strength. The winds of heaven here is an illustration that God ultimately controls all the universe, both good and evil (Revelation 7:7). The sea is the tumultuous world, or peoples of the world, often spoken of as humanity. And the beasts that came up from the sea "symbolize" epochs, dominions that successively emerge from the tumultuous disturbances of the world (mimicking the tumultuous sea -As Isaiah 13:4). Even as when Christ calmed the tumultuous sea it was illustrating His rule over the wicked forces of the world that would destroy His disciples in their ship (Church). So these four kings symbolize their universal rule. Diverse or different because they differ in symbolism, purpose, and strength.
- "Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.
- And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another."
That is just the superficial of my understanding on Daniel 7 that I am not going to discuss this too deeply because I am not finished studying some chapters (Daniel and Revelation) chapters enough to readily give chapter and verse why I believe this, and it can be very confusing and non-productive to those who don't know or understand what I am talking about. Some reactions I receive from my OP today were a good example. I am still studying.
Daniel interprets the dream ... I'm taking Daniels interpretation over yours.
Daniel 7
Daniel’s Visions Interpreted
15I, Daniel, was grieved in my spirit, and the visions in my mind alarmed me. 16I approached one of those who were standing there, and I asked him the true meaning of all this.
So he told me the interpretation of these things: 17‘These four great beasts are four kings who will arise from the earth. 18But the saints of the Most High will receive the kingdom and possess it forever—yes, forever and ever.’19Then I wanted to know the true meaning of the fourth beast, which was different from all the others—extremely terrifying—devouring and crushing with iron teeth and bronze claws, then trampling underfoot whatever was left. 20I also wanted to know about the ten horns on its head and the other horn that came up, before which three of them fell—the horn whose appearance was more imposing than the others, with eyes and with a mouth that spoke words of arrogance. 21As I watched, this horn was waging war against the saints and prevailing against them, 22until the Ancient of Days arrived and pronounced judgment in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came for them to possess the kingdom.23This is what he said: ‘The fourth beast is a fourth kingdom that will appear on the earth, different from all the other kingdoms, and it will devour the whole earth, trample it down, and crush it. 24And the ten horns are ten kings who will rise from this kingdom. After them another king, different from the earlier ones, will rise and subdue three kings. 25He will speak out against the Most High and oppress the saints of the Most High, intending to change the appointed times and laws; and the saints will be given into his hand for a time, and times, and half a time.26But the court will convene, and his dominion will be taken away and completely destroyed forever. 27Then the sovereignty, dominion, and greatness of the kingdoms under all of heaven will be given to the people, the saints of the Most High. His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers will serve and obey Him.’
28Thus ends the matter. As for me, Daniel, my thoughts troubled me greatly, and my face turned pale. But I kept the matter to myself.”
shall take "the" kingdom.Here we have God illustrating these four beasts to be four kings (kingdoms) and clearly declared that the Saints of the Most Hight shall TAKE their kingdom.
God gave Christ his kingdom. So I have no idea what you are trying to say.That is the dominion that was given to Christ from the beast that the Saints coming out of all nations may possess. It was restored that was lost at Eden. It is not limited to countries within Europe or Asia. Selah!
Good night.
God gave Christ his kingdom. So I have no idea what you are trying to say.
That the saints in Daniel 7:18 will receive the kingdom that God gave Jesus will be the fulfillment of Daniel 2:44.
44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
When Adam and Eve sinned, right afterward, Eden the garden of God was closed off. No-one has had dominion in Eden the garden of God where the tree of life is ever since.
There are many people within the church who claim that their interpretation of the four beasts of Daniel 7 is correct. And they taught to many, through their sermons, books, movies, etc..
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?